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the article states Astral travel allows us to have a direct experience of God. It gives one an absolute knowingness that we are not our physical body or even our mind, and travel to the highest planes of consciousness. From everything i've read in Gurbani and other writing of Saints, and my current experience of Simran so far, this line doesn't quite sit right with me... Astral travel is just an experience of another of gods creations...it is still a product of the mind...a creation, so it cannot give us the experience of going beyond the mind...and therefore not give you a direct experience of God. you have to remain un-attached to this plane and move beyond it into the mental realm and beyond again etc Yes, you very quickly realise that physical death is not the end of everything for you...that you continue beyond the death of the physical body, but you now have another body...and that body has a life span also, and from what i gather from experience so far...we can still feel sttachment, ego, desire, anger, greed, lust within that body Also, from my very limited experience thus far, it seems there are many layers of the Astral Plane...lower layers that are experienced/atracted if your mindset is very negative and dark....and higher planes if you are doing your Simran and making effort to cleanse your mind and 5 thieves...naam Simran and the pull of the inner shabad will act like your express elevator taking you to the penthouse suite. i have no doubt guru ji could astral travel and used it to show others the vastness of creation...and i have no doubt that Guru Ji can take people beyond creation and beyind the mind, into the formless

keep it up ji...make it a habit if you miss, try do some during the day...

It's not really abstaining away from the Astral Realm or anything else... it's just submitting to Waheguru Will...and allowing Him to show us what He pleases...rather than us inducing an experience when we have no idea what we are getting ourselves into or whether we are in the right frame of mind for it....it's seeking his guidance and support for the jouney ahead...and that journey mat have you astral travelling... ...but now you have the 'creator' as your travel guide

my point is only that Gurbani is quite simple...do naam simran and work on the 5 thieves that brew up within us during our life interactions here on earth...all else is of no use whatsoever 'if' our biggest aim is to experience waheguru. people move homes, towns, cities, countries...and no matter where they go, they take with them the same mindset. which is why i used Astral Sex as an example of people going from one place to another but still controlled by the 5 thieves nothing more Therefore i can only inspire someone to do Naam Simran in order to experience the 'complete truth' and to help conqueur thier 5 thieves...and not push them into something else when i have no idea of what there mindset is.. Naam Simran will test you (as it has done with me in my short journey so far)...i am very thankful to waheguru that no matter what comes my way, Waheguru is always fixed in mind and taking me where i 'need' to go (surrendiring to HIs Will), rather than my curiosity taking me on fruitless expeditions . This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Soohee on Pannaa 745 Soohee, Fifth Mehla: dharasan ko lochai sabh koee || Everyone longs for the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan. poorai bhaag paraapath hoee || rehaao || By perfect destiny, it is obtained. ||Pause|| siaam su(n)dhar thaj needh kio aaee || Forsaking the Beautiful Lord, how can they go to sleep? mehaa mohanee dhoothaa laaee ||1|| The great enticer Maya has led them down the path of sin. ||1|| praem bishhohaa karath kasaaee || This butcher has separated them from the Beloved Lord. i niradhai ja(n)th this dhaeiaa n paaee ||2|| This merciless one shows no mercy at all to the poor beings. ||2|| anik janam beetheean bharamaaee || Countless lifetimes have passed away, wandering aimlessly. ghar vaas n dhaevai dhuthar maaee ||3|| The terrible, treacherous Maya does not even allow them to dwell in their own home. ||3|| i dhin rain apanaa keeaa paaee || Day and night, they receive the rewards of their own actions. kis dhos n dheejai kirath bhavaaee ||4|| Don't blame anyone else; your own actions lead you astray. ||4|| sun saajan sa(n)th jan bhaaee || Listen, O Friend, O Saint, O humble Sibling of Destiny: charan saran naanak gath paaee ||5||34||40|| in the Sanctuary of the Lord's Feet, Nanak has found Salvation. ||5||34||40|| i think this Shabad says it all Ji.

From my very little experience so far...stick with Naam Simran...everything you need to see/experience of Waheguru's creation will be revealed at perfectly the right time for you...when your mind is ready for it.... it will all happen naturally under the guidance of your inner shabad (which is your internal satelite navigation system), it will make sure you bypass all the traffic, road works, dangerous paths, cliffs, and get you to your destination it will clean your mind and inner body so that you are ready to take the journey ahead with complete concentration and focus and reduce the likelyhood of you wandering around aimlessly and getting distracted over and over like we already do in this world Just my view based on my little experience on this journey so far....you are obviously free to continue in any way you wish

Personally i wouldnt encourage anyone to pursue Astral travelling...i would suggest doing Naam Simran to subdue the 5 thieves in the subconsious mind and as a means to experience Waheguru (which is what Gurbani states over and over and over....and over again ) my argument about desires is of not having control over them...if someone addicted to porn and sex in this world...starts Astral travelling, he takes with him that same mindset to the Astral Realm...so then what will that person be likely to indulge in there? and once they have some 5 thieves inspired action in the astral realm could they also be suscebtible to getting attached to what they see/experience in the Astral real...can greed hit them there? Anger? Therefore i will never encourage anyone to pursue Astral Travelling as focal point... Naam Simran - yes! and maybe a long the way you will get to Astral Travel (but having your primary compass firmly poiting to Waheguru).. or maybe once the 5 thieves are subdued and Waheguru is Experienced...you can enjoy Waheguru's whole creation without getting lost in it and attached to it.. under the guidance of Naam Simran you are putting your whole faith in Waheguru's will and waheguru's Will only...trusting in Him, and surrendring to his Will...you are saying "here i am...please come and take my hand"

How are you getting on ji?

Bhagat ji, its all great what you are saying... but as Gurbani says...we don;t know how long we have in this life. Gurbani says we have spent countless lives already chasing desires...being reborn due to unfulfilled desires. so tonight when i go to sleep, i know my intention is solely on waking up for Amrit Vela...and doing my Naam Simran (keeping things simple)...i may not live another day...i don;t want my last intentions to be on my desire to experience Astral Travelling... But thats just me All other desires you mention...eating good food, playing an instrument...most people do these during the day. Astral travellers make use of the night, of deep Rem sleep...a tired body and alert soul to induce astral travelling...and this can take up that valuable Amrit Vela of Naam Simran for you never know how many more Amrit Vela's you have at your disposal...before the lights turn out (death) oh and Astral Sex..is an 'intention' to have Sex...in the Astral Realm...taking your desire for sex from the physical realm to the Astral Real to 'Actually do it'. What we've done here is just mention the topic sex...not actually having any 'intention' of carrying out the act or any form of it such as cyber sex .. Just my current thoughts on the matter...nothing more.

Then one must ask what their priorities are...if they are more interested and focussed in wanting OBE's and Astral travelling than thirst for the ultimate truth then they are probably not ready for the truth...which will come in time... Astral Travelling is just another desire....the internet is full of people wanting to astral travel to manifest their desires because they cannot manifest them quickly enough here in this world...they want to experience Astral Sex because they are told they can manifest their deepest desires there in an instant...whatever is your mindset you will experience there... ones state of mind will determine what they see/experience via OBE's and Astral travelling, so in my opinion it is a must to control ones 5 thieves before delving into anything like this...lots of naam simran and daily effort through seva and sharing and truthful community interaction just my opinion...nothing more..

i guess so

for the first 2 years of doing amrit vela i would never use an alarm clock...i would do an ardaas before sleep to ask guru ji to wake me up at the required time...and whenever i naturally woke up i would do my Amrit vela... my sleeping pattern changed recently and now i set my phone alarm on so that i'm always up at the same time everyday... fight the tiredness..eventually you will realise after a few weeks of feeling extra tired that your body doesnt need that much sleep anyway. also when your simran starts to get deeper, it will rejuvinate you also... just my experiences so far....god bless

imagine if you can home your desire/focus/energy/determination for astral travelling to wanting to experience the ultimate truth - Waheguru... We don't know how many breaths we have left in this precious human birth....what to spend this energy on? just astral travelling or the ultimate? my advice/opinion....focus on Waheguru and a long the way you may 'naturally' have the opportunity to astral travel but you won't get lost in it all - your focus will still be on Waheguru...so you may get to enjoy all the wonders of his creation whilst still having the focus of your destination People are wandering lost in this world already...do we really want our main focus to just get mesmerized and lost in another world jusy my thoughts and nothing more ji... God Bless

I haven;t used such tracks before myself, but i've sometimes listened to some 'Snatam Kaur' before Silent Simran and during those morning hours it really helps you relax and focus the mind before you start silent mental Simran

thats great ji.. try to plant a definate thought of 'intention' to wake up for Amrit Vela just before sleep...i find if i have any doubts about waking up before i go to sleep, i will end up failing to get up for example some night i lie in bed and my mind is already making excuses..."oh its a little late now..i need to be fresh for work...maybe its better to miss Amrit Vela...no, i have to wake up.....but i'll feel tired...we'll see" this indicision sticks on you...and when the alarm clock goes off, the excuses are the first things to go through your head, and before you know it...you back to sleep. have that intention...psyic yourself up you will never regret it once you start doing it regularly..will change your life forever! God Bless Ji

you can pratice this during the day...for example, i am currently typing this message, but i can move my attention to different parts of my body, fingers, toes, top of head but keep my eyes at the screen becomes easier the more you practice... i learn Tai chi...and that involves a lot of placing the mind in different parts of the body (energy points) while doing the taich form...becomes easier the more you do it..

Don;t think i've ever had such experience...i tend to lose reference to my body during deep meditation

Ragmaala ji uoi started this very interesting thread, but didnt tell us about your experiences, challenges etc?

i read this a few months ago...very good read

i agree ji, recently i was watching some video's from some well known apparently awakened souls namely ' eckhart tolle' and someone else who's name i can't remember... in all their guidance, in their tips and techniques they offer to their audience...the penny dropped in their discourse when they both said they had a moment of complete surrender due to a life situation or experience...a moment where they fell physically/mentally and spiriutally at the feet of God - all Ego of Being able to resolve their life situations themselves with their own perceived efforts had momentarily evapourated and in that moment they had the greatest gift of grace.... or in fact, the grace was already there, but that the Ego had dissolved enought to allow grace to be felt/received In all the videos i have seen of them, i can only recall them saying this 'once' ... when it is of upmost importance... Surrender to Waheguru Ji's will is key... The geatest Simran i have experienced is when i literally (mentally) fell at Guru Ji's Feet during Amrit Vela, where i had no solutions for lifes events, no more energy, and surrendering my ego was all that was left. In that moment of Surrendering where it almost feels like defeat (ego feeling like it has been defeated), all possibility instead manifested. God Bless Ji

i know of one person in India who started up a local india charity that supports educational fees for children that live in nearby slums to him. you can see his facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/invincible.helpinghands Are there any sangat on this forum that know of any slums/areas where childrens, family can do with extra support for education? Maybe we can do something similar? I am a web designer in the U.K and can create a donation website for sponsoring children. Just throwing out some ideas and suggestions

Makes good sense...

where are you from?

do you mean that after your mediation you just cannot fall to sleep? or during the meditation when you are focussing at that point? I've never had a problem falling to sleep if i do this lying in bed...i'll just eventually drift off...but i know that some people can't do this because their energy is very active... i do taichi, and my tai chi teacher always tells me to do 'grounding' visualisation if i do any tai chi in the evening before i go to sleep...he said my energy will be very active and i won;t sleep well... some visualisation is standing with both feet firmly to the ground...then imagining roots coming out of your feet going into the ground... if you google grounding, maybe you'll find other techniques..

when i started to take Simran seriously about 2.5 years ago, i first began doing simran at a Gurdwara's evening 1 Hour Simran session everyday after work...this was fantastic and where i first started going spiritually within... i would also do simran lying in bed before sleep... This was all fantastic and i still do this from time to time... BUT, when i started Amrit Vela that is when things really 'began' on a deeper level... i do not not why...it could be because there are less distractions from the external...darkness, no sounds, and dyan could be set on Gurmanter a ot easier...the atmosphere also feels different...the world is asleep. I could open up during my ardaas a lot easier...it almost feels like a one-to-one with Waheguru.. Mentally i could shut off from the world, knowing i would not get disturbed...the phone wouldn't ring, the wife wouldnt need a hand with anything..no responsibilities at that time...i could literally let go mentally and call out to God...surrender

From my own experience, i think its the moving of the attention/consciousness to just between the eyebrows that helps...but during the early stages your eyes just naturally focus there also helping to lock your focus there...and then over time you will probably notice the eyes are very relaxed and you're not straining them to that point... inner vision with Guru Ji's grace can be awoken, and various things can then be seen that are not seen with the physical eyes...but with the spiritual eyes of the subtle body.... A common sight is that of light, third eye chakra tends to have the purple/indigo light and if you take your Simran seriously it will start to become pure white... This is just from my own experience so far and may not be how it is for everyone...just keep an open mind...so that you're receptive