SAadmin

Subconscious mind and soul are not same. As far as i understand, subconscious mind is collection of latent tendencies/memories from previous life, seen as form of thoughts arising and subsiding. Soul/JOT is the source or substratum - unmanifest potential -Awake pure awareness-aware of itself, self cognitive where all the world phenomena arise and subside. Its source of everything. ਪਾਧੜੀ ਛੰਦ ॥पाधड़ी छंद ॥PAADHRAI STANZAਤ੍ਵ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥त्व प्रसादि ॥BY THY GRACEਦਿਨ ਅਜਬ ਏਕ ਆਤਮਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਅਨਭਉ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਹਦ ਅਕਾਮ ॥दिन अजब एक आतमा राम ॥ अनभउ सरूप अनहद अकाम ॥On a day the curious soul (asked): The infinite and Desire less Lord, the Intuitive Entity. ਅਨਛਿੱਜ ਤੇਜ ਆਜਾਨ ਬਾਹੁ ॥ ਰਾਜਾਨ ਰਾਜੁ ਸਾਹਾਨ ਸਾਹੁ ॥੧॥੧੨੬॥अनछि्ज तेज आजान बाहु ॥ राजान राजु साहान साहु ॥१॥१२६॥Of everlasting Glory and long-armed; the King of kings and Emperor of emperors.1.126.ਉਚਰਿਓ ਆਤਮਾ ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਸੰਗ ॥ ਉਤਭੁਜ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਭੰਗ ॥उचरिओ आतमा परातमा संग ॥ उतभुज सरूप अबिगत अभंग ॥The soul said to the Higher Soul; the Germinating Entity, Unmanifested and Invincible;ਇਹ ਕਉਨ ਆਹਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਸਰੂਪ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਅਮਿਤ ਤੇਜ ਅਤਿਭੂਤਿ ਬਿਭੂਤਿ ॥੨॥੧੨੭॥इह कउन आहि आतमा सरूप ॥ जिह अमित तेज अतिभूति बिभूति ॥२॥१२७॥What is this Soul Entity? Which hath indelible glory and which is of queer substance."2.127.ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਬਾਚ ॥परातमा बाच ॥The Higher Soul said:ਯਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਆਹਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਅਮਿਤ ਤੇਜਿ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਕਾਮ ॥यहि ब्रहम आहि आतमा राम ॥ जिह अमित तेजि अबिगत अकाम ॥This Soul is itself Brahman;" Who is of Everlasting Glory and is Unmanisfested and Desireless.ਜਿਹ ਭੇਦ ਭਰਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਮ ਕਾਲ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਰਬਾ ਦਿਆਲ ॥੩॥੧੨੮॥जिह भेद भरम नहीं करम काल ॥ जिह सत्र मित्र सरबा दिआल ॥३॥१२८॥Who is indiscriminate, actionless and deathless; Who hath no enemy and friend and is Merciful towards all.3.1228.ਡੋਬਿਓ ਨ ਡੁਬੈ ਸੋਖਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਕਟਿਓ ਨ ਕਟੈ ਨ ਬਾਰਿਯੋ ਬਰਾਇ ॥डोबिओ न डुबै सोखिओ न जाइ ॥ कटिओ न कटै न बारियो बराइ ॥It is neither drowned nor soaked; It can neither be chopped nor burnt.ਛਿਜੈ ਨ ਨੈਕ ਸਤ ਸਸਤ੍ਰ ਪਾਤ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਤ ਪਾਤ ॥੪॥੧੨੯॥छिजै न नैक सत ससत्र पात ॥ जिह सत्र मित्र नहीं जात पात ॥४॥१२९॥It cannot be assailed by the blow of weapon; It hath neither an enemy nor a friend, neither caste not lineage.4.129.ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਹੰਸ ਸਤ ਸਤ ਪ੍ਰਘਾਇ ॥ ਛਿਜੈ ਨ ਨੈਕ ਖੰਡਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥सत्र सहंस सत सत प्रघाइ ॥ छिजै न नैक खंडिओ न जाइ ॥By the blow of thousands of enemies, It is neither wasted away nor fragmented.ਨਹੀ ਜਰੈ ਨੈਕ ਪਾਵਕ ਮੰਝਾਰ ॥ ਬੋਰੈ ਨ ਸਿੰਧ ਸੋਖੈ ਨ ਬਯਾਰ ॥੫॥੧੩੦॥नही जरै नैक पावक मंझार ॥ बोरै न सिंध सोखै न बयार ॥५॥१३०॥It is not burnt even in the fire. It is neither drowned in the sea nor soaked by the air.5.130. Next

Nothing :)

Sorry to hear about your experience. You need to realize there is quite bit of patriarchy cultural influence super imposed on sikh gurdwara and community So if i were you, i wont even bother with these people who are soo deep rooted in their patriarchy sexist ways. Luckily, seed is not destroyed you could always join woman jatha which help out bring awareness of this issue so that collective consciousness of our community could be raised. Here is thread dedicated to sikh woman parcharikhs and saints in our dharam, perhaps you could print it out and show it to this individual:

Why am I not enlightened yet? Amazing discourse..!!!!!!

Feedback as member of this forum not a admin- no where to seen as offical stance of sikhawareness or anything like that: If its, its pretty sad. May be they should sort the issues out behind the scenes instead of making mockery infront of cops. Also this seems like minor flexiblity it should have been allowed but no ultra right wing patriarchist nut jobs have to ruin it for everyone and get the knickers in twist over five harmless female doing panj pyares (symbolic gesture) holding flags seva. Like seriously? Are they that insecure? Take your rigid pendu stuff some where else....!!. Dont even try hiding behind some maryada stance, some aspects of maryada is subject to circumstances / exceptions. If sikh cannot use bibek when engaging in sharia - maryada...he is same as- Hindu anna turkhu kana, dohe tu gyani sayana !!

Every spiritual traditions in the world have extra ordinary events which is beyond conditioned mind. so whats really is not pragmatic is conditioned mind of individual who like confine things in certain organized conceptual form or belief system that to me is very devoid of being pragmatic as its confined in conditioned mind which isnt open or receptivity to infinite possibilities or give room for infinite possibilities in realm of infinite expanse of consciousness, the eternal possibility, the immeasurable potential. Many miracles are acknowledged by science too like how consciousness is moving matters. Not every thing is black and white. Next time obviously people would have doubts on actual amrit ceremony of five heads cut off and bought back life again and baba deep singh ji fighting with his head cut off.

BHAKTI AND JNANA For devotees of Sri Bhagavan following the path of jnana, the question Who am I? is the key to their endeavours. Yet bhaktas also have an appropriate question symbolizing their attitude of devotion to Sri Ramana - 'Whose am I?' The two questions represent the thin distinction between two approaches - one in which the ego is burnt up and the other in which the ego melts away. Whose am I? in: The Mountain Path, 1974, p.15 --- Here is another one where bhagat coming together end at bhramgyan How to see God? To see Him is to be consumed by Him. (Ramana Maharishi)

Thanks for your post. In order to discover if bhramgyani is real lets first discover IF Bhramgyan is real ?. We can forget about person titles for now, lets discuss if verb - bhramgyan nature itself is real? and if bhramgyan nature its attainable / can be experienced by normal beings?

Happy Vaisakhi everyone!

I wish i know what they are saying, sounds pretty amazing.

To those who are whining why this topic is locked: We are way being too lenient, all though we clearly don't have to as if you look at other forums- first of all they won't approve controversial messages from guest let alone allow one guest (original op) with five different ids to post. We knew op guest using five different ids but we let it still slip through hoping we can discussion at the topic hand, to be fair we did. We wont allow this forum to go into vicious same cycle of arguments and topics. To uphold integrity and quality of forum, we have to lock certain repeated topics more quicker than others so that other discussion like gurbani vichar, meditation- naam simran, self help, self improvement, self reflection etc could take place.

To be honest, this whole menstrual debate never really exist in real life and still dont in india and here, it started online by bunch of bored punk ass lazy kids from akj and taksal who thrives on controversies on silly stuff.

Subtle hints i picked up too - during possession, her eyes would not blink but would expand a bit never blink also so energy levels that few men have to control her. Ghost can tap into life force (yang) energy inside as well.

This one is quite something too:

Preserving, respecting relics of our beloved Guru's and past gursikhs and sants is tradition in our community and same goes with other spiritual communities in asia- tibetan buddhism, indic spiritual traditions, toaism etc including many first nation communities in canada . This might be slightly hard for colonial west mindset to grasp but everything isn't simplistic, black and white in this world, these things-relics have its contextualized place.

I understand there tends to be over board personality worship/their idea worship but that something to do with followers be stuck with pointer as opposed to what pointer is pointing towards..Whether akj followers with their bhai sahib, 3ho with their yogi, taksali, nanaksar with their sants, nihangs with jathedars so on and so forth. But with that being said, glory and respect shown towards sants is not all subjective, its part and parcel of gurbani theme of sadh sangat and sat sangat...Gurbani talks about it and encourages their company. Respect and worship are different things. One can deeply respect sants, follow their gurmat gurbani reiterated practical teachings yet not worship them- idiolize them in a way where one's surat- consciousness is totally caught up in their form, worshiping them, worshiping their ideals conceptually without any direct experience with them. Unfortunately, lot of sikhs from all walks of life and jathas are caught up in personality worship/idiolize them in a way where one does not even make effort to follow the message they are trying to convey but rather stuck in a pointer/messenger. As they say- being religious is idolizing someone else experience but being spiritual is bringing up teaching which deeply resonates with one and with right guidance from saints and having its own direct experience.

I just watched the original video, good one. Yup, you should be dharam yudha and able to kill your own meat and eat it. However, i wish gyani goes little bit of depth behind nihangs symbolism behind doing chandi di var patt upon doing jhatka and whole metaphysics behind shakti and jhatka aspect.

As amardeep has said, its subjective matter. So its not black and white. It's driven by individual's direct experience with them and that varies. I dont think you can judge them with one standard barometer of humility. Whats our definition of humility and what humility actually is may varies. Our conditioned mind box humility certain way but what we need to realize - there are NO patterns, logic, rational sant/bhramgyan follows thats why gurbani keep its open not closed or confined. When bhramgyan(pure god realized knowledge) dawns on lucky one, it literally consumes the ego conditioned mind/ personality, its literally identity shift there is NO you or me there is only bhramgyan/truth and from the body its only truth/bhramgyan that flows but there are literally no rules, conditioned patterns , logic, rational you can throw on bhramgyan. Truth cannot be defined as soon truth is defined, we have conceptualized it- made it to idea, boxed it, truth cannot be defined, it could only be realized It's a change of occupancy, pure real self (Jagad JOT) takes center stage of being/ core being instead of ego and then pure divine direct hakum unfolds by appearing spontaneously in self realized being(sant) drives them to benefit human kind and that hakums varies sant to sant and thats why there are various task and nature of sants and bhramgyani.

1. Above tuk means - endless play, state or glory of bhramgyani only fellow bhramgyan can truly know but that does not negate existence or effect of bhramgyani around their surronding such magnetic effect of society of saints which gurbani talks about in various places in gurbani. In other words, its not the people who merely coming across with them, its the drawing magentic emitting force which draw people(neddles) in. 2. We will not discuss personality in this topic, as it gets too subjective. But nice try cherry picking some what controversial figure of recent times and applying same paint brush on whole lineage of sants (sant khalsa) from various spiritual orders of sikhism Who's doing it? Many who consider a saint do by so by reading life stories, gurmat written in gurbani reiterated by them, direct intutive experience.

My own two cents: You would know if someone is sant or not if you are only open to them , if you can be open and receptive towards them then you will notice subtle hints of their awakened spirit/awakened mind- jot saroop, your doubts might get clear in their company just by their presence, your mind/thoughts might just drop off for few secs/minute and you enjoy your real self-cosmic spirit. There is no easy conceptual answer to this. All i can say, our pure intuition/cognition (not be confused with skeptical mind) will validate if we have met sant/saint or not.

Please use this topic as reference, will have this topic open for now and watch it closely.

Any off-topics will be deleted:

I see disturbing trend on many threads, off-topics are runining thread/topic at hand. We have to enforce strict policy to uphold quality and integrity of the forum.. so from here on onwards- - Any off-topics will be deleted, so please make a back up of your post in notepad before posting if you are unsure. - Three written warnings will be given to repeated offenders, after that we will have put you on moderation to ensure quality - Please make this place positive learning experience, please treat this place as deep place in your home, just like you wouldn't want any nasty fight or argument in your house destroying peace, similarly we should all feel the same here. If you have issue with someone, take it via email or facebook and facebook can cater all that. Sorry we cannot, we have quality to maintain here.

The problem with that is - all the newbies had to go through nindak phase as they reach certain milestone in posts..lol..rank change is driven by posts - milestones.