Sukhi

thanks for your input Pheena. i'm starting to wonder why only you and i are either brave or stupid enough to risk saying anything in this thread with the exception of Infernal Monkey who didn't say much... this thread has been viewed 113 times now (excluding me this time around). why are you all so scared?

the post wasn't directed specifically at you. you just happened to be the last person i was replying to. (ah ye poor lil brit or whatever y'are. you got the brunt of the Mahadevi's wrath! ) actually, the post was a reaction to the unbelievable amount of utter stupidity present on SA. it started in the "critique of sarbloh.info" and went into another thread on homosexuality in the buddha dal in the uk to this new thread on aguptkaur. and even before this, there was plenty of other crap going on. i never said that giving someone your opinion or sharing your understanding is wrong. but slandering others, being rude, needlessly provoking others, and being an arsehole in general aren't things that are going to lead to greater understanding. if i've offended you with my post, i humbly apologize for it. but the message wasn't directed specifically at you.

Pheena, i don't have too much time to answer (exam and presentation early tomorrow morning... nooo! :shock:) but i'll try to put something down. from the various studies i've looked at, there was no difference seen in the development of children from same-sex parents and opposite-sex parents. in fact, some of the studies even suggested that children with same-sex parents were actually better off than children raised by opposite-sex parents and suggested a variety of reasons mostly involving parenting skills and communication. one of the main things that the studies emphasized was the importance of having TWO parents rather than one. the studies compared the development of children raised by same-sex parents, opposite-sex parents and single-parents. in the end, the single-parent families tended to be worse off and the same-sex and opposite-sex families tended to be about the same. in essence, i think that as long as the child is getting the love of a male-mother or a female-mother doesn't make as much difference as long as the child has two parents sharing and caring and being a good example of how to live in harmony. does love change if you're a different sex?

it was the only thing that really made sense.

Har Naal Pyaar, why do you feel the need to tell us who you consider sikhs? are you a true sikh in every sense of the word? i'm not trying to make a personal attack on you per se, but for the longest time, all i've seen is people throw opinions and stereotypes and judgement out at each other over and over again. i'm sick of seeing these mudslinging matches where NOBODY gains anything. what does it really mean to be a sikh? how important is amrit? how important is kesh? these are questions that all of us must answer for ourselves at our own developmental points. why do people feel the need to tell others that they are less or more than them on this spiritual path?! i am simply amazed at the lack of sensitivity and respect people have for each other. and this is just ONE out of countless times that i've seen reactions like this. where in the world is that sense of humility present in our Gurus who knelt and touched the feet of sinners such as ourselves as a sign of respect? where is that sense of equality that allowed them to see One in all? where is that sense of tolerance that allowed radical social changes to occur in their followers? why have we forgotten our roots of love? why are we so concerned with what other people are doing wrong instead of what we need to improve on? why is it so important to us what is lacking in others when we can't deal with what is lacking in us? why do we feel the urge to needlessly attack each other over and over again over petty and unimportant issues instead of building compassion for one another? not everyone in this world who calls themselves a sikh is going to end up taking amrit one day. that's just a matter of fact. but what DOESN'T need to be a matter of fact is the way we segregate ourselves and treat each other with utter hostility because we think that someone is inferior to us. *sighs* i'm at a loss for words to describe the sickening feeling i have in my stomach that as time passes, the virtues we proclaim to respect are fading from our own community. instead of spreading love and understanding, we foster hatred and intolerance. what a fine legacy we turned out to be for our Gurus. moving on. for those of you arguing about hair and how monai aren't sikhs and are going on and on about how people who don't cut their hair don't listen to their guru: i think it's safe to say that in this day and age, no one is listening to the guru. guru sahib has said A LOT of stuff that pertains to being a sikh. forget about being a good sikh and keeping the rehat, many of us can't even do the other stuff that guru sahib continuously tells us to do, such as: not slandering others (gee i wonder who this applies to). so before you go off and tell monai that they aren't sikhs because they don't have the outer appearance of one, please ensure that you really are a proper Gursikh and are doing EVERYTHING guru sahib tells you to. otherwise, you're just another hypocrite like the rest of us.

that was very nicely put Pheena. i agree with you on understanding whether or not homosexuality is a choice to really understand it thoroughly. but apart from this, i've been questioning the way i think about things as being "bad" or "good". for me the question isn't whether people make the choice to be homosexual or not as something "good" or "bad" but rather whether our reactions (or rather my reaction) to them is a good reflection of Sikh values. if indeed Sikhi values tolerance, humility, and sees the entire human race as one, then wouldn't respecting all peoples be considered paramount to spiritual growth? i'm not sure if i'm explaining this properly, so i'm going to use the example of Bhai Kanhiya jee. when he was out on the battlefield, he didn't differentiate between Sikhs and Moghuls. he truly saw the same thing in everyone, and as a result, he did everyone's seva. so in the same sense, if the entire human race is looked at in the same way, then shouldn't the same principle of "equality" be used? in the example of Bhai Kanhiya jee, replace the Sikhs with heterosexuals and the Moghuls with homosexuals. would Bhai Kanhiya jee refuse to help homosexuals because they made a different choice (in either this life or a past life)? i think my biggest problem with the entire hullabaloo surrounding homosexuality is the development of a very hypocritical sense of ethics. we talk about having tolerance for everyone, yet we turn our face at the slightest hint of a difference. why is there a set of dual morals? one set for treating those who are like us, and another for those who are different? anywho, moving on. Pheena, you mentioned that there would be an imbalance in how a child would develop if they had homosexual parents. contrary to what you stated, studies that have been conducted on children who grew up with a same-sex couple as their parents show that there is no real difference between them and children who grow up with a heterosexual couple as their parents. apparently it's not having a man for a dad and a man for a mom that makes the difference, but rather that both a mom and a dad exist to take care of the child's needs.

like anyone who hasn't been under a rock for the last 10 years, i'm aware of homosexuality and the general stance of people on it as a "bad" thing. judging from a recent thread here on sada trusty SA called "homosexuality in something or other" i was wondering why people see homosexuality as a negative issue that must be dealt with (if that's what you think about it). could some please explain to me why there's a need to segregate between heterosexuals and homosexuals in Sikhi which emphasizes humanity, tolerance and equality (in whatever sense you wanna think about it in) for all regardless of sex, caste, creed, or colour?

why is homosexuality an issue?

"satan's greatest trick is convincing people he doesn't exist." similarly, this sense of satisfaction does nothing more than reassure us when reassurance is the last thing we need. we fall into this false sense of security that since we did so and so, we're safe for the day. since we read and understood x, y, z, we're good to go for the day. there's nothing wrong with being satisfied with having done something goof for yourself as long as you don't mislead yourself into believing that you're invulnerable to maya. i was always under the impression that true contentment is not something that lasts for a day and must be recharged after a daily dose of nitnem but is something cultivated after many years of practicing constantly. or rather of developing to the point where you're doing bhagti every moment and ALWAYS satisfied. (and i mean that in a purely metaphorical sense.) and those are just me two teeny tiny worthless paisey on this so far...

why am i not surprised he didn't know? no no, the asylum appointment is the week after. i just won't physically be in TO then. i'll be down in london.

march 12th?! march 12th?! nooooo... ... i won't be here....

all i can say is that i have YET to laugh as hard as i did when i saw all this stuff. i can't believe i missed so much comic relief on SA! aguptkaur... i seriously don't understand you. the very first time you came onto SA, you told us to stop harping on and on about unimportant stuff and focus on the important things. so what exactly is it that you're doing here? is this important? in what way? and what concrete evidence do you have? and exactly why are you trying to malign others with your false claims? if you are so concerned with this issue of your friend being abused, then perhaps your friend (rather than you) should take this issue up with the authorities. i could go on and on, but i've since decided that i will only address important topics, as you so succinctly suggested a very long time ago. and this debate with you, in my opinion, is probably the least important or informative one at this moment in time. but thanks for the laughs! it's great stress relief!

misleading expectations in the sense that maybe you're expecting yourself to be able to get up at 5 in the morning when usually you would sleep til whatever time. there's a different atmosphere when you have a group of people who do something and when you're alone. there's more motivation to wake up early when you're in a group rather than when you're alone. you need to build the habit. and as Pheena suggested, you also need to recognize that it's not your efforts on your own that are leading to this change. Someone Else's Hands are behind this too. just take it one step at a time. if all roads lead to Rome and Rome wasn't built in a day, then all paths lead to One and spiritual strength cannot be built in one moment (unless of course you are blessed with such a thing). ease up on yourself and don't beat yourself over the head if you aren't doing the exact same things you were doin in a group. do what you can and accept it as the best you can do on your own for now. but don't give up.

neo, you'd be doin ardas to thank God for finally gettin my darshan, but sadly, i'm not interested in fulfilling your life-long desire to meet me yet. so keep wishing and hoping. and maybe your phony "super mahadevi" that i'm apparently a wannabe of will make your wish come true. but i sincerely doubt that... Guv, here's an english translation of what Neo said: oh you dumb brits..you guys have infected sukhi and made her blondee... [oh you dumb brits... don't you know how amazing and smart sukhi is?!] and guv- he/she is not fiance'...my future fiance's has a throne [Guv, you're not the he/she i'm marrying. he/she is currently reclining in a la-z boy chair.] she is a super mahadevi who has created wanna be mahadevi as sukhi. [i dream about having some power over sukhi someday so that i can rule the universe but sadly i know it shall never happen.] sukhi keep asking her blessings and when she wouldn't get the blessing. [sukhi is a blessing that we should all be grateful for!] sukhi started actin weird like she start winkin at super mahadevi's british coytee "guv" [i'm jealous that sukhi pays more attn to you than she does to me! i hate you guv, you lil biatch!] then she would held him and took him tiolet and start changing his diapers [i was neglected as a child and never had my diaper cleaned except for once a day. it still upsets me.] but that was just a excuse.. .she exploited him just to please super mahadevi [i wish i was as cool as guv.] weird arse cbcd (canadian born confuse desi) [i like to pretend i'm the coolest thing ever!] Atleast I m desi Canadian [i like to pretend i'm the coolest thing ever living in a cold country!] i hope that helps you out somewhat, Guv...

trying to read this thread after having about 1.5 hours of sleep is amusing. hasn't Guru Sahib said that attempting to describe God was pointless and so was trying to understand His/Her/It's limits. how can we with our limited human capacities possibly hope to grasp something limitless and infinite when we cannot even imagine what the word infinite and limitless truly mean?

welcome.

the tutu highdiver is actually Neo's fiancee. i already told you guys elsewhere that we Canadians do NOT accept Neo. moving on...

well a lot of what we do in our lives and a lot of what we focus on distracts us from death. we fear the uknown so we run from it. who here can really say that they're comfortable with dying in the next 5 minutes and know exactly what's going to happen after they die? nobody's certain. all we know is what we've been told. and even then, it's human nature to constantly doubt and question things. we want to believe that life has meaning and that death is not the end. we want to believe our guru and have faith in what is said. but do we really have that unquestioning, unflinching faith that we need to have? probably not... hence our continuous escape from death and all things related to it, including old age.

heppy berday to ju! heppy berday to ju! heppy berday dear Amrit bha ji! heppy berday to ju!

erm... that sounds like Descartes' mind/body thing... does God even have a mind/body to have a mind/body dilemma over?

i agree with what was said before me. Kaur, do you think it's possible that you have misleading expectations which are leading you to feel frustrated? apart from what tSingh suggests, you might wanna try doing simran whenever you can. even if it's in the evening. granted that in your eyes it's not as good as doing simran early in the day, but at least you're doing something right? and keep workin on trying to get yourself to stay awake in the mornings. it'll eventually happen. it just takes time. patience is a virtue, grasshopper... lol!...

what?! *strikes guv with lightning and he turns into ash and crumbles* the end.

hey man... how come devi devtey who live for god knows how long treasure human life without ever having to die then? ignore me, i'm being silly.

i could read it just fine. something's wrong with you guv.

if i chat complete shit, then why do you constantly feel the need to reply to what i say? MSPAATMNS exists as much as MAHA ASS exists. and exactly where is sexysingh supposed to run to? i am omniscient! oh wait, is that the right omni? oh who cares. i'm multi-omni-everything, so there's no hiding from me. muahahahahahaaaaaaa!