DSG

Dont you think the immediate aim should be to stop him , the question is how and could exposire lead to his collapse, as a "first hand witness" i.e. his ex-security guard has spoken against him , and the long term goal would be to instill Gurbani into the people who have been drawn into his dera .

Wahe Guru ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Ke Fateh Sangat J On the Sikh Channle yesterday , ex-security guard of Sacha Sauda wale revealed the autrocities the evil Saucha Sauda Wale is putting the people in Punjab through who reside in his Dera. The Ex- Security guard has valently spoken , and come forward to make sangat aware of Sauda Wales doings. According to the Ex- Security guard , he is :- 1. Raping girls 2. involved in murder 3. "giving the snip" to young males 4. paying off the Police, Chief ministers etc.. 5. Attacking / falsely drawing in Hindu , Sikh and Muslim people Ex-Security guard has seeked help from the Police , Chief ministers etc.. no one has helped in out .. Sangat , what can be done to stop Sacha Sauda Wale ? What are the sangats views ? What actions can be taken ? Some callers suggested :- 1. Distribute the programme on CD/DVD to all even in india ? how can this be done 2. Make sangat aware via the internet 3. Ex-security Guard contact the MP ( since he is not UK citizen , how can he achieve this)

sorry , following should read Writing of Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji

Sangat Ji All this bickering name calling , wheres the piar Why not have a discussion , in order to make sangat aware . As far as i can gather the main issue is 1. why was bhog done of Dasam Granth in presense of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , could the Dasam Granth not be read on the side ? 2. Darshan Ragi / others saying Dasam Granth is not complete writing of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jin is this the case /not ? How can the sangat be educated ? What is bad if anything in the Dasam Granth which is causing all this bad vibes ? ( please no name calling , bickering etc... )

Its not about whether I have contact with the sikh channel , the channel as they have mentioned is a community interest channel ( for the public) so anyone should have the same right as the next person Sorry for my ignorance , I have heard only a couple of lines of some speeches and are very informative , but we still have to be careful. If there are people who can be referred back to if questions are asked or someone / thing makes objections and are prepared to come forward and answer them without any hestitation. I dont think the Sikh Channel are trying to please everyone , its the rules if x amount of people make complaints they have to be looked into and investigated. Say for example you get enough signatures for the petition , then you get the same amount of complaints , then what ? There are people out there who want the channel closed , and would do anything to close it. Its like the Bhog of Dasam Granth , people made complaints ( who dealt with these complaints ?), but I still believe there should be a program on the sikh channel to discuss the issues, same with SAnt Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale speeches , before they are aired , have a talk show explaining to the sangat about the life and mission of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale , see the reponse , then properly air the speeches with translations and discussion , just airing them I think is not enough, again who will be willing to control this . I personally think it would be good sangat will gain alot from it and gain inspiration , we have to work together , be smart rather than opposing them , as it is very easy to make complaints but very hard to come forward and , work together PS;- I will mention it to the Sikh Channel

Bhaisukasingh Ji dont get me wrong here , I would like to help you out , if you list exactly what you would like to show on the Sikh Channel , ( i.e. content , message etc..) , plus who has vetted the speaches). and i'll contact the channel and ask them. The reason for the above is that when broadcasting , you have to be careful in what material is being shown , as there are people out there whose aim is to knit pick and any ( i'm not saying it is) agenda which is political, against others etc.. etc.. then they inform ofcom with a complaint , which have to be investigated and could result in closure of the channel . It has happened in the past where minority of people have issued complaints , hence ofcom have to investigate , which causes all sorts of problems. Also if you list the other material that has been sent to the Sikh Channel , we can ask them that also.

This is all confusing to a simpleton like me Are we saying that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not enough for the sikhs to read , digest and act upon ? hence need Dasm Granth ? Are we saying Sri Guru Granth SAhib is not complete , it will not make us better from within , final goal to merge with waheguru , therefore the need of Dasam Granth ? Do get me wrong here I'm not anti anything , just some questions popping into my mind ? If Sarbloh Dasm Granth mentions Guru dhee Guddi is givent to Adi Granth then why do parkash , and bhog of dasam granth ? At the end of the day , I believe our main goal is to do bhagti ? , cleanse our inside , merge with waheguru cant we get this from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji ? The biggest problem as someone has mentioned is that you'll get different sects being formed , the panth being split , and I believe the learned/scholars should do full santya of Dasam Granth , infront of the sangat who want to know and learn about the Dasam Granth . Kema Dha Jachak heh

BhaiSukhSingh Ji Why have a petition ? Why not ask them if they would action your request ? If they are refusing , ask them why ?

Wahe Guri Ji Ka Khalsa Whae guru Ji Ke Fateh With wahegurus kirpa we have a new source of media ( Sikh Channel ) Do the sangat think we should get the "learned" sikhs together and get them to explain about Dasam Granth , the Bhog of Dasam Granth , why the controversy ? I personally think , there should be a fact based discussion so that the sangat can be made aware of the findings of scholars , The learned rather than just giving our two pence worth or what we have heard through the grape vine . What do the sangat think ? This should be done in a civilised manner , no name calling, abuse etc... because there are alot of sangat out there who are confused , who have there own views , but with factual information hopefully the whole sangat can be made aware/educated . Because one point Matheen Ji mentioned earlier in this thread which I think is the key i.e.

Sorry Matheen Ji , I've been playing in the snow I dont want to cover the ground if its already been discussed . its just so many views with different responses , its all a bit confusing ( thats to me, may I add) Alot of peoples perception and it was even highlighted on Sikh Channel , that why is Dasam Granth being recited infront of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , etc... etc... Do you think a program on the Sikh channel to clarify these issues would be a good idea and if so who will be the representatives. Again Sorry for repeating the issue.

I dont know the full ins and outs but from what I see on the Sikh Channel and all that is going on about the Dasam Granth , 1. I believe if all sikhs dont get together this will break up the panth , some will make Dasam Granth as thier Guru , some Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji . 2. Dont get me wrong , I dont have a problem in sangat reciting the Dasam Granth , they can read it until there heart is content , as long as they gain something from it which will merge them with waheguru , then its all good , but I believe 10th master has already told us Sri Guru Granth Sahib , Pothi - parmesar ka thaan , sabh sikham koh hukam heh guru manio granth 3. I dont see the point in just reciting gurbani , especially now since its live on air to millions , why not recite a line , then explain , Amardeep Singh who has a slot on the Sikh Channel is doing a fantastic job on explaining , Jaap Sahib with meaningful references to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Matheen Ji , why were you getting threats ? I personally believe , we are all running away from looking into ourselves , waheguru is within us , we just need to look inside and make the connection, here we are just confusing things , a new joiner to Sikhism , what does he/she follow, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Dasam Granth ? See , even I am confused ?

N30 S!ngh , I agree with you 100% I apologise If any offense has come of HSDs petty comment Let me just add HSD yes , I know nothing yes , I am not intelligent and yes my brain farts , releases alot of natural gases Let me also add , which is for your benefit ,and would control your temper , your ego , your narrow mindedness 1. If you read a thread , take out the best bits disgard the bits you dont like - quite simple really 2. N30 S!ingh posted So I put across my views , meaning the reporter could have put down his camera , even though the family were getting food from the UN camp , he could have still helped them. Really --- its not a big deal , chill out geezer I dont see the big deal in this comment , no big deal at all ? obviously you do We should encourage all members on this forum to participate in topics whether they have alot / little knoweledge , repeat themselves, repeat themselves , repeat themselves, ask meaningless questions --- so what we are hear to learn . Its when people start name calling , making assumptions puts the other readers off , and turns the topic into a personal battle , " whose comment is going to out smart the other persons'" this is all childish.

if you cant beat them join them . On a serious note , i will email them , see what they have to say ( they probably wont respond) but at least they will be made aware , especially with the commonwealth games being hosted in Delhi next year.

Likewise i'll take that as a no also

Thanks Guys, its an experience I will not forget Plus :- i have a contact now in the indian embassy , anyone unfortunate to lose their passport , i'll give you the guys details ( you will not have to queue up , go direct to him and your pasport will be stamped in 30 mins )

HSD Did you even read N30 S!NGHs post ?

who is prosecuting Tytler? It seems as if they are not doing a convincing job or the latter ,i.e I am not surprised at the results , regardless of wheter substantial evidence is produced , its who you know in India that counts . ( I wont go into too much detail , my bag got stolen in India last March 2009 which had my passport , British Embassy made my passport in 2 days , but the indian embassy in Delhi would not endorse my 6 month photo copy of my visa I had so that I could exit India , neither would the indian embassy in UK willing to help , they caused me so much grief , kept calling me back to their offices in delhi for no apparent reason ( 2 trips were made from Punjab to Delhi) in the end I had to pay 4000 Rs , then my passport was stamped with an exit visa in 30 mins, yes 30 mins , surprise , surprise --, point being as you are are probably aware of it until all sikhs talk the same talk , walk the same walk throughout the world, we can rely on a leader or leaders who has the ability to make and act on decisions , these people will get away and have done so with murder .

I personally think the reporter could have done much more rather than just take a picture and walk away. If our mentality is such that , why not save the world , which can be done but we need to start little by little . The reporter could have informed UN food camp to supply food to the child, his family and others near by , isnt it better to save one life than none at all?

I think the biggest problem is making people aware and lack of education. If it wasnt for the Sikh Channel alot of people would not have known about the Ludhiana shootings and the corrupt so called politicians. It was very good to hear on yesterdays Sant samaj update that all leaders of gurudawaras got together to discuss how to get justice/nest plan of action , how to boot out Badal and get justice , and how to boot out the corrupt SGPC members. They said all leaders meeting in one place has not happened since 1984. Hopefully with wahegurus kirpa justice will be done ( peacefully). The leader announced ( dont know his name) that on 24th December they will carry out a peaceful rally , where the sangat will do simran jaap whilst rallying and it was made clear that any sangat who causes disruption , the sangat should peacfully sort it out. I also believe and Bhai Amardeep Singh mentioned on the Sikh Channel , we should open schools in Punjab , where the sanagat have a proper education system , are taught about gurbani so at least they are not easily intimidated , or lead astray the education will help the sanagat give them a goal to aim for as help was learning about Gurbani. The Christians have already adopted this approach whereby they open schools provide free education and converting them to Christians. Kema Dha Jhachak heh

Call him a Sikh I dont think so, He may be born into sikh family does not make him/her a sikh. This is BNPs divide and conquer rule, get the ethnics fighthing amongst each other . Call this freedom , i dont think so , spreading hatred amongst communities. A while back on radio a socialist was discussing bnp issues with a presenter and the presenter asked the socialist , what is black ? ( I think he summed it up very well ) i.e. Politically speaking ,black is anything which is not white . Ask the BNP , what is there education policy ? This is not what Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji taught us .

Thank you for the information The Rehat maryada at www.gurmatveechar.com site states Akhand Path "should" be completed in 48 hours , does this mean the aim is 48 hours , but it can go over , but then the question arises Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the living Guru for the Sikhs , then should we keep Guru Ji awake for more the 48 hours as continuous recital of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is done ? If not , then speed surely matters ? and if speed matters , then reading too fast surely is not soothing to hear . Also when reciting sri Guru granth Sahib ji , should it be done aloud until completion ? When reciting Jap Ji Sahib , if Akhand has been completed , and your half way through reading the Jaap Ji Sahib , I assume it must be completed before the ardaas is done . Wahe Guru Ji ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Ke Fateh ?

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji ke Fateh Sangat Ji how many of you have signed up to the the Sikh Channel ? Only £1 a week Lets all get together and make it a success , there are alot of benefits

Wahe guru ji ka khalsa wahe gur ji ke fateh When doing an Akand Path , does it matter at what speed you recite the sri Guru Granth sahib ji ? Does it matter what time scale the Akand Path completes ? Does it matter how many Akand paths are recited at the same time i.e. 5 or more in the same place at same time? Does it matter what age group recites the Sti Guru Granth Sahib when doing an Ankand Path? Please if you can provide any sort of references would be highly appreciated ? Wahe Guru Ki Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Ke Fateh

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji ke Fateh I believe justice needs to be done to help the people who suffered in 84 genocide . As other posts mention , will it work ? who will manage it ? are factors that need to be sorted out well in Advance and i believe the only way to do this is for all Sikh leaders of all sects/gurudawaras unite to work together , "all talk the same talk , walk the same walk" ( impossible you may think , but with wahegurus kirpa , one day it will be done) On Sikh channel yesterday 84yr sevadar , moved to India from Canada to serve Punjabi , in terms of providing education to the poor , opening hospitals ( he has opened schools and hospitals and is doing an excellent service) he is not getting any support from SGPC at all . He also mentioned , SGPC should freely produce literature about Sikhism and have people to distribute it to all the towns in punjab. I also believe , we should target SGPC , and get them to serve the sangat , distribute free literature , open free schools , hospitals , etc.. hopefully this will start uniting the Sikhs , giving the local residents a purpose to stay in Punjab rather then flea to another country. Talking from experience when i visited India last February , I went to the information Bureau at Amritsar to get some information about what information they provide , local gurudawaras, books about sikhism etc.. , the so called seva dar was so unhelpful and I think was shocked that I was asking for information rather than a "Sparsh" , I had to write information down myself on paper and did not have any literature about Sikhism / rehat maryada to give me, shocked I was . In Sri Darbar Sahib , I was speaking to an english couple from Manchester and London who asked me why there were no guides in the harmandir sahib , why there were no literature provided about the history of sri Harmandir sahib , I had no answer , and when I came back to the UK I was on a mission , I dont know how many times I emailed the secretary of Haramandir Sahib asking him about literature , guides etcc at the haramandir sahib , guess what , yep I had no response ... Still now and again I email him , hoping one day I'll get a reply I think this is our biggest problem , we must learn to UNITE and then we can have our Khalistan , Justice , better society etc.. kema Da ja chuk ha

I think the biggest problem is that , there is no standard or shall I say no one is following a standard so that all Gurudawars adhere to , The so called seva dars open the gurudawars as a charity status , where the charity commission pull the strings . They have there own constitution and I have seen , where it says you can only become a member if you belong to that particular caste ( which is completely wrong). Therefore if a memebr of the sangat stands up and disagrees with the gurudawara committee , if they are not a member they are ousted out and charity commission gets involved , the Solicitors get involved , they pay alot of money ( sanagats money) to the Solicitors etc... , the committee members and even the president , secretary and treasurer are not baptised sikhs , ( Personally I think doing this type of seva in a gurudawara , you must be a baptised Sikh as in a round aboput away you are a "leading role" in society. Alot of problems arise due to personal conflict , thus resulting in Gurudawaras Elections , where the sangat have no say but only the members of the Gurudawara or Committee have a say . If we think about it , they hold meetings at Gurudawara( inside the darabar sahib) , there may be heated arguments , turbans flying off etc.. isnt this beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I agree with , not having a gurudawaras name as ramgarhia , all gurudawaras should be named Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Gurudawara ( townname) , then history should be explained to all Kema dha ja chak hay