DSG

Sher The same place you get yours from.

Sher I knew you would twist it ? Where in Punjab no , theres so much corruption there you stand up for justice , the Police torture you , frame you , lay down false allegations against you . Here in the UK yes I have. Now you have to understand and realise , the Why question again ? Why would a fellow Sikh kill another fellow Sikh ? Why ? In your VIEW the portraits are in Gurudawaras of killers, for others portraits of the Sikhs who stood up to get peoples rights who stood up because they wanted to make a difference , who stood up because they had enough , who stood up because brothers and sisters were being killed and raped for no reason , who stood up because they were hurt from these events and wanted to make a difference. Have you ?

What is that I'm hearing about some pandits holding a protest in support of the Sikhs? ​About time , they are realizing the truth now , and if all of India did this , wow i'm sure change would be immediate.

Sher , Hindustani Is your aim only to score points ? What are you doing actively to help the 40,000 killed , their families , relatives ? How are you seeking justice for the families of the 40,000 killed ? Have you filed cases to the Police with these events ? If so what is /was the outcome ? As you know 1000's of innocent Sikhs were killed , went missing for no reason at all

Sher As asked on previous threads , which you fail to answer and deviate to other means , the question is Why ? in particular Why 1984 ? You are making this out to be Hindu V Sikh , Sikh v Hindu , Sikh V Sikh , Hindu V Hindu ,,,, its about humanity , human rights , being a minority group/ ethnicity does not give anyone the right to do as they please, Another ? Why attack Sri Harimandir Sahib , the holiest place for the Sikhs . What do you think would happen if other places of worship are attacked ? Attacking the core of any religion only means one thing i.e. to wipe out that sect/faith , if they have no core then they have no place to go to for advice/help etc.. Killing hundreds of innocent civilians ( young children, babies ) at point blank range , thats not the thing i call going after a big bad terrorist , who is causing havock in Punjab . Wiping out a "big bad terrorist" do you take in tanks , helicopters , thousands of police force into a place of worship and openly firing at civiians ? would you not get the civilians out first ? Recent events , Police have deliberately taken off Turbans of young sikhs simply because they are rallying against justice , whether its Sikh,Hindu,muslim,christian , justice needs to be done

If you don't know why he stood up Then do your research Then you will realise the truth I know and have spoken to People in punjab with The same view you had When explained or asked Why they take your stance When presented with Facts they realise the truth If sant jarnail singh was such a big bad "terrorist" terrorising The kohm, why then Kill 1000,s of innocent People Why not give the rights The Sikhs Wanted He openly sent out Invitations to the property To talk and give equal Rights to the oppressed If sant ji was so bad he Could have been easily Wiped out by snipers when He openly did speeches At harimandir sahib But the pm,s agenda Was different Media blackouts Feeding false information To the public Brain washing them Even today when I went To India and spoke to Some old and youth Say sant ji was wrong Simply because the media Giving them false Information Again it comes down To why he was targeted Why I ask you why Do your research. And you will Realise the truth

Sher Do you research on Sant Jarnail SIngh bhindrawala , rather then firing out comments left right and center 1. Have you read this jeevan ? 2. Have you seen his other speeches on youtube , other than the one you keep mentioning ( again did he kill 5000 Hindus ... nope did he get back what was forcefully taken by the police ...yes ) 3. Why did Sant Jarnail Singh Bindrawala take a stance , why did he stand up for attrocities ... why didnt you or me stand up , why ? 4. There are many organisations/ individuals who have spent 30 years plus trying to get justice , findiing evidence , findiing the truth .. these can / will be shared. 5. You need to understand why Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala stood up , woke up the kohm , why ?

Absolutely ridiculous !!!! They need to be educated regarding the purpose of a Gurudawara. How do the gurudawara committee know someone coming to the Gurudawara has some kind of conviction , in fact its people with convictions a "Gurudawara" will put them on a right track " , plus your not going to be standing out side the door and be asking Are you an illegal immigrant .... yes ,,,,,,,,,, sorry your not allowed in , call the Police They should have stricter polices, enforcement's in place not allowing illegal immigrants in to the country .

I think they need a sense of purpose, importance ..... the so called Gurudawara committees / leaders are more interested in their status and putting down previous committees and now and again they serve Pizza and Chips to draw in the young and youth. I think that music is key , get the youth to learn music properly from top musicians funded by the gurudawara, give the youth a target for example at the end of the 13/14 weeks of learning either , vaja, stringed instrument, tabla etc.. they will do kirtan on a big scale , hold a massive kirtan smagam where all over the UK are invited to perform , gives them a sense of purpose a sense of direction that they have a goal . so need to practice . The teachers should be at a certain level so they can teach properly , have a big community so the young and youth are learning from a set curriculum , so they can communicate with each / learn from each other regardless of their location and when they get to a certain level get them to teach , i see this can be adopted to sport , learning gurbani and most importantly practicing what our Guru is teaching us.

Hi I'll share with you the experience we had when we went to India in February. I'm only focusing on one village in Panjab i.e. Jandialla near Jallandhar. Quite a while back in this village there was only one Gurudawara which was run by SGPC and was quite a historical Gurudawara( Raiee anna Gurudawara ) and all locals use to go there. Then different communities started fighting ( jaat paath issues / caste issues) then people from different castes started to make their own Gurudwaras ( Today there are many jaat paath Gurudwara in jandialla i.e ravi daas , baal meeki, jatt , ramgarhia etc..) Today only a few people go to the gurudawara to which there jaat is assocaited with, gurudawaras are empty , the Giani in the morning on their loud speakers recite Japji Sahib , 4-5 Gurudawara doing this simultaneously is something NOT to hear. Theres one Gurudawara where my parents built based on the request of the community as locals were fighting due to power related issues and personal feuds. Today the Gur Sikh dping selfless service at this Gurudawara , a true Gur Sikh he is , partially sighted wants to get the youngsters together at this Gurudawara. He explains Gurbani to the youngsters , gets them involved in seva , takes them on trips to Hari mandar sahib, hazoor sahib etc.. He is such a passionate sincere man , whilst we were there he got together about 10 youngsters so our views can be shared with them regarding the benefits of Seva, sikhi etc.. People like this need support , these youngsters want to learn Gurbani , want to learn kirtan but theres no facilities, no funding , no real incentive for the youngsters to go to the gurudawara. Theres this one family who are stopping the local community getting together , people are scared of this family , they have been involved in burgularies,fights, terrorising the locals, been in jail ( not served their full sentence are back out in the community ( how ? due to their contacts with the so called leaders who are corrupt ) The Gur Sikh is doing his utmost best to get these youngsters into the Gurudawara , one good point he made was that when "we" we as in people from UK,USA,CANADA etc.. visit we should do a community program in the Gurudawara , talk to the locals , encourage them support them , give them a sense of motivation. Provide facilities for example Panjabi teachers , music teachers for X amount of years , then the rest the Gur Sikh will do his best to get the youngsters to learn. The hardest part is continuously motivating the youngsters to a point that they want to come to the Gurudawara of their own accord. I think if facilities are provided , the youngsters will go and learn , do seva but its all about having that regular interaction and funding so that the Gurudawara can be self sufficient .

my views are that if you look at the "pends" where the average person is just surviving , there main purpose is to put food on the table and provide for their families. When temperatures raise to 46 degrees F , electricity is cut off , water supplies are low , theres no facilities for the average indian , its all about survival. Where as if the government provided facilites , equality for jobs , a sense of purpose for the average indian to wake up and better his/her life then things would be a lot better knowing support is available. Theres no support , no motivation ..if you have the money then your ok as anything in India can be done with money. Educate the young so they can take responsibility for their own actions , tell them whats right and wrong , on a certain festival ( cant remeber exactly what) they make "Bhang Wale" pakora now average joe blog wont know whats in the pakora until eaten . Wheres the drugs coming from , need to block the source . Certain drugs make you addicted , so at first the dealers offer it for free , and once hooked , theres no stopping unless forced into rehabilitation , again need to stop the source. If theres no jobs , no support , no motivation , what do you do a) get out the country roam around here and there c) mix in with the wrong crowd ( at least theres something to do) If you stand up and fight for your rights , since there is so much corruption who can you trust , Police will file false allegations against you if their source of income is threatened and beat you until you are senseless. Where do you go ?, whom do you go to ? Is it easier and safer just to let things be , just to survive or risk your life to make things better.

I think he hit the nail on the head , its all about money , trades with other countries , economy Sher Your comments are so stupid , you dont even bother to read history properly , your just blinkered on whatever mission you have for example if i posted a) Arjan Barry C)Charanjit D) Dick you just concentrate on D) for Dick .... and thats what you have been doing. Why you are afraid of Siki , its ideology , I dont know Why Sikhi is posing a threat on you ...i dont know You always have the snide remark .. Let me add , wake up .... if your a 100% devout Hindu , practice it , share the goodness of it in Forums , lets all learn rather than focusing on things that dont matter , dont enhance you spiritual side I know exactly what your response to this will be , this is how predictable you are. Wake up , stop spreading hatred and false information.

Regarding SANT Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindrawla , lets take a step backwards Question for sangat who thinks he was a "TERRORIST " , start off with basic questions, then take it from there 1. Why do you think SANT Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindrawala stood up in the 1980's , what was his motives ?

The question is for you to answer not me to answer for you ? If theres no justice what does one do ? If you dont want to answer thats fine ... ( end of move on ) ....... DAS its good to discuss , rather than ignore hopefully aim is to make awareness , theres always going to be for and against arguments but if we can put a message across , make awareness i think its better than nothing

Ok take a look at 1984 Block 11 in delhi where sikhs resided , some had gun licenses but fought back the mobs , the Police took away their weapons telling them that they were there to protect them , and once they did , the mobs cam back and they were masaccred ,,, similar thing hapened in block 32 in delhi where majority of sikhs lived , the sikhs all gathered in the local gurudawara arming themselves with what ever weapons they could find ( sticks, kirpans etc..) and pushed back the mob .. the police intervened and told them to go back to their homes , that the Police would proptect them , they were forcibly sent back to their homes , what happened next over 400 sikgs were masaccred , bodies limbs etc.. lying in the streets.. ( This is from H S Phoolkas book When a tree shook delhi) Now the law and order suppose to protect the Sikhs , rather it was the opposite The question is , what would you do ?

It may be a slippery slope argument , the question is simple if you are not getting justice from anywhere , what do you do ? Sher , its a simple question ?

I agree innocent lives should not be taken at all . I have a question for you , if government is not helping , local police are not helping , atrocities/killings against a minority group are increasing . How would you stop that ?

I may be wrong here but my thoughts are as follows , no common tom,dick and harry ... indian version tirlochan,darshan and hardial will go to the gurudawara because they want to , it is by gurus kirpa one goes. The people that go have a feeling of wahegurus presence , have that "darr" that whaeguru is their watching over them , hence go ti the Gurudawara to get that shannti. I agree no one knows the true characterisitcs of a person only waheguru does , plus we dont know what goes on behind doors , but a true gur sikh wiill be same in and out of doors . for the non-sikhs/sikhs alike not knowing about sikhi its our duty to explain ( Basics of Sikhi are doing a fantastic job) and the ones who they educate when doing street parchar ( i think) have that inner feeling of existence of a supreme being and will be willing to learn , the others will not be interested at all and to be honest probably will not even visit a place of worship . For non/sikhs visiting the gurudawara we should hold guided tours , show them sach kand, langar hall , sikhs belief , identity , morals ..( you you have been doing veer ji ) India is the worst for this , after recent visit ( feb) , Hari mandar sahib they are spoiling , putting marble all over the place outside of the darbar sahib they have bought all the land , and putting marble every where. ( Why did they not have a landscape garden a bit of greenary , i have no idea... who makes these decisions) , and i met some Irish people , they hired there own tour guide from the internet when they visited hari mandar sahib , why they dont have their own and have regular tours for all that visit ... i have no idea) This i beliieve will educate the people from all walks of life as many come to see the architecture of hari mandar sahib.

A true gursikh WILL NOT use any weaponary unless there life is being threatened as history tells us a try gursikh will defend the righteousness of the whole of humanity.

I recently been to india and have had dialogue with the young who are seeking government jobs. I visited the local villages where there main priority is paying bills and putting food on the table for their families A qualified Civil Engineer , applying for a government job has to 1. pay 3000 rupees to apply for an application and then be selected to sit a test . In some instances 2 years have passed , money has been paid but no information passed to the applicant re his application 2. Rather than basing the applicant on their merits , its based on the caste system for example if i am from a lower caste and person B is from a higher caste, we both sit the same test and i get 95% and person B gets 50% , they will take on person B simply because he is from a lower caste, ( When i heard this , it was shocking .......... no equality at all ) 3. In one case 3 lakh people applied for government jobs , they took the fee of 3000 rupees from each applicant on the day , it was grid locked , majority could not attend the interview on time , the officials rather than re-scheduling they said tough lluck , the applicants should have come a day earlier and lost their application and money ..( again i was shocked and angered ).. Theres nothing their for the youngsters , on rubbish heaps , open land "Bhang" is naturally ( thats what the locals say) growing . When they have local events / mellas , Bhang wala pakora , drinks are openly served . In the pends locals are fighting as to who would take ownership of the gurudawara as money generated will be put in their own pockets ..( its so sad) ..

Found this somewhere a while back ... Some say more is merrier some say less is more some say Raj kerah ga khalsa some say khalistan zindabad some say I need your vote at re-election some say choose from the congregation some say build bigger gurudawara some say utilise what we have some say fight for justice some say justice for what? some say involve your MP some say why, no point at all some say sit on the floor to have lanagar some say we need tables to have langar some say read the 5 bania some say read what you can if at all some say learn punjabi/gurmukhi to read gurbani some say whats the point , english translations will do some say learn martial arts some say the pen is mightier than the sword some say learn proper raags some say learn filmy tunes some say i want to be in power some say gupt seva will do some say lets unite some say sarbat dha bulla BUT all i have to say , educate , read aloud Gurbani , practice Guru Jis message and united we shall be forever

If thats true according to Sher .... then why dont you follow it , practice it , read it .... you'll then realise

There was a program on the sikhchannel yesterday ( Youth Show) its not on their site yet , so cant provide the link, but worth checking out. I am still learning myself and the points made by Sarbjit Singh , who has youtube channel ( youtube.com/rajoanatv) If i recall correctly some points he made re 1984 and Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala 1. As mentioned many times , Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala was after the rights for all the people not just the Sikhs , wanted clean water as people were dying from cancer , wanted no cuts in electricity etc. 2. Cant remember the genetlemens name , but was a mediator to see what Sant Ji wanted. When he listened to Sant Ji's request , simply asking for peoples rights , the guy said to himeself that would be easy and can avoid a "civil war" , but when he approached the prime minister , she said its too late , they will attack . 3. It was the last resort Sant Ji took up arms, One good point Sarbjit Singh made was that Sant Ji was following the Sikh Code and conduct in the sense , he told people to wake up , ask the local "pends" sarpanch for guidance , then ask the panj piare and if still uncertain , come to the akaal takht and seek guidance ....... this shook the government in the sense , they thought if we start to attack the seeks , opress them they will come running to the government , but rather the opposite happened Sant Ji and sikhs were making their own decisions with the guidance from Akaal Takht , Sikhs began to become organised ( like being control of their own state) .. the government did not like this and attacked . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZq2Y7OsN6Q&list=UUCldNSszX2nJh9Z5_AjzF7Q&feature=c4-overview

Please watch and share https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2YP1OOJumY http://www.ensaaf.org/publications/other/reducedtoashes.pdf

found http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-25723875 states in here it was a typo