DSG

In the letter it state should that be SAS or SAD ( or is it a typo), just googling SAD officer closet hit is Special Activities Divison , a divison in the US CIA ...

I think we are just going round in circles. I will read up upon Irom Shamila unlike you who will not read upon Sikh Organisation of Prisoner Welfare , Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala, Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa , Harinder Singh 1984 many many many more cases ...... your points go personal , so on that note theres no use in further dialogue no point not gaining any awareness....., you are picking and choosing as what you want to read and reply to and taking this very personal. If you have that much passion about your cause rather than slandering why dont you put your efforts and energy for a good cause , why dont you help Irom Shamila ? Good Luck and bye

hmmmm interesting .... but still you could have answered it in this thread . From your comments , why are you being blocked veer ji in threads , theres rules and regs to follow on any forum. For me its not about scoring points ..... if we dont know about certain things ask , theres many people on this forum who have much more Gian than me and any doubts can be ironed out ( this is for both ways ) Gurbaksh Singh maybe a monumental development in your thinking but the Indian PM has so many other things on his plate. I think you have hit the nail on the head here. Sikhs being a minority group the PM dont see the Sikhs as valid citizens are being opressed , not listened to , however valid their case maybe ... the are simply not listened to. Indian PM has so many other things on his plate ..........such as ? Dont you see a person serving his/her sentence should be released ? Dont you think to that person , its a very big thing ? What would you do in their shoes ? Would you accept the PM has other things on his plate , leaving you to your own devices ? ( I dont think so ) No I havent. Why do you think I havent heard about it ? and what do you think we are doing on this forum ? ( Making people aware of the attrocities happening in india ) again these are being questioned , and as to your thoughts "indian PM have other things on their plate ? .... completely wrong thinking Every legitimate case however small / big should be highlighted big time ? In the UK theirs change.org where you can setup a petition if you have a valid cause , literally thousands of people from all background sign the petition with over 100,000 signatures. Then this is presented to parliament where they then have a debate recent ones are , A disabled person living in a flat was going to be kicked out by the council simply becuase he was disabled , the petition signed now this guy had his lease extended and moved into a new flat ..... People in UK are going hungry , food banks are being used alot .. another petition was set up by a mohter of a young child who could not afford to feed her child ... her petition was about why UK was going hungry , with over 100,000 signatures this has gone to a debate in the parliment. These causes are not petty or little , this causes are not important .... the PM looks at these issues as well as having other things on their plate. They are not set to one side ... its called democracy.. Will you get the same thing in india ? according to you they wont as the PM has other things on his plate. Now if media broadcasted about Irom Sharmilla dont you think people would stand up and fight for their cause ? How will the average person be made aware of such attrocities ? You dont own this forum , but you are putting out your views , theres no excuse if the cause is valid and just every door should be knocked ? Most likely they wont gain anything financially as to why they are not covering the story, plus if we all put pressure on the main channels especially BBC as we pay a licence fee , surely they will act . But again we should stop spreading the truth ? NO i dont , but i know india has become so corrupt , its the norm ( i know , my passport got stolen and boy was it a nightmare getting my visa autorised by the indian high commission , thats a story for another day ) .... Yes i do believe Jaspal Singhs case was peaceful as they showed it on the SIkh Channel ? Plus extra footage they had showing the Police beating the protestors , they were told to hand over their cameras and in some cases cameras smashed and people beaten up. hmmm after nearly 29 years still no justice , again look at you tube harinder singh 1984 ( based on facts ) . why do you think on one person was convicted in 1985? Why would Canadian government protect Sikh , you call terrorist , but a true Sikh of the 10th master dhana dhan sri guru gobind singh ji will always fight for the truth , a true sikh will not run away after he/she has seeked justice , history tell us . interesting comment , which means it makes sense . They are protected by the Police . who are persecuting them ? why are they being persecuted ? what is their mission ?

As I said in my other post about General Brar , which you did not respond to , please read the history of ( Sant Jarnail SIngh Bhindrawale , plenty of his speeches on you tube , look at harinder singh 1984 lectures .... then you will realise ) go and search Sikh Organisation of prisoners welfare , read the history of the prisoners , then you will realise. One thing veer ji , i may be wrong why is there so much hate in you , why do you go on the defensive all the time ? I dont know where you reside , but veer ji take a look at Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa's case , shisi Kant gave statements that he has a letter from the CM stating prisoners will not be released no matter what and is willing to provide the evidence. The indian prime minister , the indian CM have not even once commented about Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa's hunger strike ... why do you think that is ? Theres no media coverage , except on the SIkh Channel that I am aware of , outside of the UK . why do you think that is ? Bhai Jaspal Singh( young teenager) shot dead by the Police when he was peacefully protesting ....... no further news on whether his killers were sent to jail ? why do you think that is ? 1984 thousands of cases against the perpertrators , eye witnesses , evidence available yet again they walk free ? 29 years no justice , no media coverage outside of UK , why do you think that is ? Gurbaksh SIngh Khalsa's mission is selfless fighting for the release of prisoners who have served their sentence, he is not just fighting for the Sikhs but for all other faiths where there have been false imprisonment with wahegurus kirpa Gurbaksh Singh will inspire others to stand up for injustices and together as a quom justice can be sought ......., telling the sangat to follow the Guru's word , stop cutting your hair/drinking/smoking and sangat have come forward and vowed to take a step towards the guru ( by the way by guru i mean Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji) ..... From his words and actions , one knows the character of a true GurSikh , one who has love for the panth and guru..... there are many many many more like this I dont think you get it , its not about Hindu / Sikh / Buddhist/ Muslim etc..... Sikhs believe in the one creator , and the one creator will not look at whether you are hindu,muslim, sikh, black,white,yellow etc... its your actions , its how much you have jap naam , remembered the creator , acted on the Gurus words etc... Sikhs have done and will continue to , stand up for any injustices for any faith

Hi Sher Sher simple question have you read the history of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale ? Have you read about his character , mission ? ( theres plenty of information on Youtube if you get time have a look it will open up your eyes) Also on youtube search harinder singh 1984 , a sikh originally from india as a young child saw the attrocities that happened , went to the states and has done so much research on 1984 , is a must listen to is lectures , it will open your eyes . ( 1984 was an icing on the cake , the plans to wipe out the Sikhs were done in 77-78 ( if i recall correctly) well in advance ) Another question ? What do you think should be done , if a government/law and order is against a minority group , and after 29-30years still no justice . The minority are being opressed , take the recent event where Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa has gone on a hunger strike asking for the government to release the Sikh Prisoners who have served their sentences , its been 30+ days ( it think , well a long time , since Gurbaksh Singh has been on hunger strike and still no resolution , no indian media coverage in fact people in the "pends" dont even know what is happening . If someone stands up against the police/government they are falsely framed , beaten up "chucked in jail" , how do you think the minority can get justice ? The perpertrators( Police , MPs ) are walking around free , how do you think they can be bought to justice ? How do you think the innocent Sikhs who are falsely put in jail be released , simply because they attended a demonstration against the false Sadhoo Babas again look at Sikh organisation of prisoners welfare ? Thanks

Wahe gur ji ka khalsa whae guru ji ke fateh http://www.sikh24.com/2013/12/breaking-bhai-gurbaksh-singh-khalsa-jailed/#.UqG0hXDBqSo What a disgrace , I dont understand the mentality of these people. An innocent Sikh Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa , on hunger strike so that the prisoners wrongly arrested and who have served their time , campaigning for their release. Surely we can knock on UN's door as India is part of the UN and put pressure on them to act .

Hello Punjabee Like Dalsingh mentioned it was mainly talking punjabi at home , AND having no choice as a kid parents sent me to Punjabi class , where all i remember is oooorahhhh ooooot ( emphasis in the pronunciation) , there wasnt really any inspiration for me to learn punjabi . Then I learnt at Gurudawara , started to read the Gutka , again I cant remember the techniques used and how I got to that point. ( Now i wish i had ) Today my kids learn Punjabi at Gurudawara , there is no structure , i couldnt believe from day one they were writing oorah airrah .... This I felt was completely wrong. Now look at the English alphabet as a kid I was taught to remember abcdefghij...z ....and NOW in reception class kids are taught 5 letters at a time and then sound the words, read and then write them i.e. SOUND,READ and WRITE e.g m a s d t from this you can make basic words m a t ... m a d ... s a d .... s a t and so on. This way the emphasis is on sound getting the phonetics right and once distilled kids can start joining up letters , sounding them and start reading fairly easily. This method I think is very good and was trying to drill it into the Punjabi class teachers , whether they understood it or not ( I dont know) ... I read Dals document , which was great and also on you tube theres a series of learning gurmukhi ( from sangat TV) again i thought his method of teaching was like the English one explained above . From my experience of learning I am a firm believer in getting the Sound right first , then reading and finally writing. There may be different techniques used in different schools , but I havent found any yet other than they teach the orthodox way ( write it , and sound it) I also think that learning Gurmukhi should be for life and not just at GCSE/A level. Take ENGLISH at the age of 5 - life we use it day in day out , why not the same for Gurmukhi . I dont think it should be about qualification and most importantly I think when learning Gurmukhi at a young age kids should be taught reading and writing the "panj Bania" start off with Japji sahib and slowly progress , so when the child is about 15-16 years he/she knows the panj bania inside out , pronunciation is bang on ...which if they then take the path of Amrit , reading and reciting the Panj Bania will be easy.

It depends if the wives want to supplement it , it may be all rosey to start off with , then there may be all sorts of issues such as 1) wife A , your not spending time with your kids 2) Wife A , your never home 3) wife A , i need you now ..honey 4) Wife B , I need you now also honey 5) Wife B , i need to talk to you urgently 6) Wife A , I need to talk to you urgently 7) there may be a clash between wife A and wife B going on in the background ( reminds me of Jerry Springer show .. jerry jerry sorry) 8) Now if both the have young kids, new born ... the guy will just walk away , ( i've got a job to go to) ...i personally believe its the women who suffer more in a relationship, and if things dont go too well then depression kicks in , kids get neglected and abused etc..

I dont think it should be encouraged at all. From the "first wifes" angle ... she has no choice but to accept it , where would she go , will she divorce being the sole mate for x amount of years , where will she go to? will she then become someone elses wife ( a family thing )... i think its all wrong In my opinion if you want a partner find your own , ( there's plenty to go round whether you a career minded or not) , why break into someone elses marriage.

Absolutely ridiculous Just feeding their ego and showing their stupidity .

I agree , but was only trying to give me 2 p's worth by the example about the Chair and spoon thats all nothing too serious.. the little understanding I have . Do you know how to contact the indian high commission , they are not responding to emails, phone calls .. ( only joking .... )

Sensee Pal , The best form of self defence . ( you have to be very fit to run fast , like doing 1 mile in 9.876 Seconds , takes years of practice, years ) so in the net it would be Guru ka Sikh crapped himself and legged it , but ran very very very fast .

Bhagat Singh , i dont understand the last bit ( " into actual experience. Its possible to See that he is ") Please explain ? Thanks

Run

I think if we take the source back to its routes they all go back it Waheguru for example Take A chair , what is it made from ..( wood , nails, glue,screws,cloth etc..) , wheres the wood come from ( maybe a forest, tree) ... who cut the wood ( people) , where did the tree come from ? ( planted a seed ) , who planted the seed etc.. etc .... so if we go back to the source , i think it goes back to Waheguru so I think yes waheguru resides in everything .

Very Good question The little knowledge and understanding I have is that , I think the question should be what and where is Waheguru (God) . In the mool muntar its states god is everywhere , god doesnt take birth or dies . Based on this what is our perception of waheguru ? Waheguru is in everything , born as humans ,take the highest form of life where the aim is to be one with the creator by remembering the almighty 24x7 with love and compassion, serving the whole of humanity. I think if we just sit their and dont do anything like pray,mediate,seva etcc and think its wahegurus doing , i think is wrong , we have a choice whether to go down path A or B and based on our own actions we will be judged. So i think we need to make the effort ,and go down the correct path and waheguru will guide us and help us , which then our belief will become stronger and realise there is an "external force" out there looking after us.

Hi In my opinion , I dont think we really understand what we mean by Khalistan . Khalsa means the pure , so we need to create a homeland for the pure , for the people/ minorities who are not getting justice , have to pay x amount of ruppees to get a job, provide a future for the people etc.. These people can be from any background ( black,white,asian,chinese,sikh etc..) its easy saying we want our own homeland , but we need a 10-15 year plan in place now , with details ... who will run the homeland , how they will run it , wheres the funding coming from etc... etc... because at the moment I believe the Sikhs are split ,take a look at the UK Gurudawaras , when a new committee is elected they have there own agenda , not for sarbat dha bhalla , but for income , their own understanding of what sikhs should do and follow rather than following what our Guru ( Sri Guru Granth Sahib ) is telling us. India has become so corrupt , its become the norm. If you have a bit of wealth , you can more or less do what you want . Firstly I believe you need to have law and order , start with sorting out the Police , so that anyone committing a crime be it big/small that person is punished and doesnt get away by paying off the Police. We need to focus on the "pends" where there main priority is to put food on the table , how will we help them , how can we educate them , the Gurudawras in the Pend no one goes to , if they do they dont sit and listen to diwaans , just go to eat langer. The Giani puts on his loud speaker at 4am and does nitnem , the rest of the day nothing happens especially in the "pends" . I believe the mentality , thinking of the people must be changed first , they must be educated ... this will be hard task as being set in their ways. The list is long .......

At the end of the day truth will prevail , dragging these people from pillar to post is a must , to show them the fight against injustice will carry on.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa , waheguru ji ke fateh Piaree sangat ji , please sign the petition to get United Nations to investigate 1984 http://www.1984yesitsgenocide.org/

http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-meat-plant-next-to-place-of-worship?share_id=PnMoPPofuK&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

In my opinion , it dont make sense , the first Guru , Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji , mentioned ( na koh hindu na koh mussalman) , Waheguru does not care what cast,race,colour etc.. you are from as long as you remember the almighty with love and the Gurus did this without a doubt, and since all the Gurus were one spirtual light their teachings are the same. I personally think , history tells us the characters of the Sikh Gurus , and labelling themselves I dodnt think they would have done , but rather state they believe in the almighty creator whom we are all the children

Good points DalSingh , do you mind (that is ,if you want to )sharing your experience/knowledge that helped you when reading DG ? Thanks

Dead in the sense , is it worth pursuing and understanding DG , whether theres a conspiracy by 3rd parties to break/confuse the Sikh quom ? or by doing this more harm is caused rather than good? If change is needed , will the Sikh panth change for example Mr Kalsi's book , will it change people , cause friction , cause fights ? Is it a dead end ? Will some read the booklet and say , fair points, some,what a disgrace, some ,Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji cannot right such explicit material, some , he dont know what he is talking about etc... Thanks for the link DALSINGH will take a look BhagatSingh Sorry for not being clear ( i thought i was ) Is the booklet not clear ? Do you agree with whats stated in the booklet . As the booklet by Mr Kalsi ( is basically stating arguments as to why DG is not Sri Guru Gobind SIngh Ji's creation , its a conspiracy by 3rd parties to confuse and break upthe Sikhs, it has mostly Brahmnical in nature. The booklet has many references ) If I am still being rhetoric ( probably am) , maybe we can get the author of the booket to explain his research and findings . ( mrkalsi@hotmail.com)

Hi Theres no real substance behind the answers provided (like so what ? what mistakes etc...) may be wrong but I sense a feel of ( oh no not that again ,not another one , reluctancy )... The reason for this topic was to gain some knowledge of this topic , according to whats stated in the booket by Mr Kalsi is it Valid / Invalid. Certain points could have been bounced back to Mr Kalsi or even asked to comment on any thoughts but obviously with a bit of substance behind the replies. Basically my view is that I agree 100% with DALsINGH , that read and take any bits that would help you and guide you in your life or spiritual journey. As many people I have spoken to , are basing it on its not 100% Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani , and should not have the same status as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , if a person(s) , want to read then they can at their own leisure. There is a lot of confusion , i put my hand up and admit i am still confused , in the sense should their be parkash of the Dasam Granth next to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , why both , if Mr Kalsi's research is Valid then should there be Parkash of Dasam Granth. Are there 3rd parties trying to influence the Sikhs , divide them into different sects ( Although many will say the division is already there). Then a part of me says , forget it , focus on your own spirtual journey leave everyone to their own understanding ,then is this being selfish ? Just some thoughts , may be a dead end , may be a waste of time , only God knows.

Bhagat Singh good suggestion ( basically its the text in the original pdf that was loaded , an extract of it is listed below) , Let me add , this topic is in no way shape or form tellng the sangat what they should or should not read or believe , that is up to the individual. I have very limited infact "zero" knowledge of the topic being discussed , but came across the booklet written by Prem Singh Kalsi , his views about dasam granth. so thought get the sangats views . Some of the points the author states :- 1.By accepting Dasam Granth as the creation of Guru Gobind Singh Ji,the innocent Sikhs are knowingly/unknowingly disrespecting Guru Sahib Ji. 2. This , so called Granth is full of serious blunders, even an ordinary writer would not make such serious mistakes. We believe that under a calculated conspiracy Guru Gobind Singh's name is being propogated as its author. 3. After reading this Granth I found out that a large part of this is merely translations of Brahmnical scriptures. 4. Its original name was Bachittar Natak ( A strange drama). At the end of each chapter its author gives his closing remarks as, " Iti Sri Bachittar Natak Granthe... ( name of the chapter) Sampuran Shubhmasat". 5. In the Bachittar Natak , there is nowhere the name Dasam Granth has been mentioned. 6. To judge a given scriptures authenticity the scholars have laid down three basic rules :- 1. The content of a given scripture. When it was written. If no exact date or year available,with some discrepancies it still can be judged. 2. Who is the author ? 3. Author's honesty and integrity. Dasam granth fails on all these three. The fact remains that this so called Granth consists of a mixture pf translated versions of Brahamnical scriptures suhc as ; Maarkande Puraan, Shiv Puraan, Sri Madd Bhagwat Puraan and many more. Its name has been modified seven times so far , these are :- 1. Bachittar Naatak 2. Samund Saagar Granth 3. Vidya Saagar Granth 4. Dasam Granth 5. Dasam Paatshaah Ka granth 6. Sri Dasam Granth 7. Sri Guru Granth Sahib 7. Bachittar Naatak , which is propogated as the life story of Guru Gobind Singh , is a small part of this bigger Granth. 8. The Charitro Pakhyaan is nearly one third of this Granth written on 580 pages. It contains 404 vulgar stories which narrate sexual episodes preaching usage of drugs,alcohol and other intoxicants. 8. In episode no.19 a mother is shown having sex with his son 9.Episodes no.21,22 and 23 , prostitute Anup Kunwar dupes King's ( Guru Gobind Singh?) servant Magan to meet with her mistress who would teach the King a special mantra. Next part of this episode is so vulgar , it is not possible for me to explain it here. 10.Episode No.60 encourages sexual relationship between brothers and sisters of faith ( Dharam da rishta) 11.Episode No. 80 is the story of Radha and Krishan which has been described in a very explicit way. 12. Episode no. 183 teaches to have sexual intercourse with your own daughter after a drinking bout. 13. Episode no. 142 teaches a daughter to kill her father and elope with her lover. 14. Again the episode no. 357 teaches to have sex with women after consuming Bhang,Opium and Poppy husk. 15. The conspirators are trying to give the same reverence to Dasam Granth as to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Whereas, no one can find any mistakes in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, however ,this so called Dasam Granth is littered with blunders. 16 On countless times the writer of this Granth advises its readers to correct his mistakes , he says , "Bhool Pari lahu lehu sudhaara"