shaheediyan

Here are some boys who have a club in Birmingham, I think they practice the 'Iron Wire' system of Southern Mantis. Albeit being entertaining, the videos show how these guys take their training very seriously and the passion they have for their art. There are some great conditioning tips, and you can see the guys performing drills to identify the applications within the traditional forms. This is how Singhs should be meeting and training all over the UK. Today I see the 'Singh' in most communities other than those which used belong to Singhs, lets see if we can reverse this placid/lazy/complacent disease which has over-taken our quom. Be inspired...

"is It really happening?Are the people who are running the Panth are jeevan valai Gursikhs?As You have good knowledge of Puratan sources Could you please tell was any time in sikh history there was any system of voting" Lol, you are being patronising right? I speak of the ideal rather than the status quo, but replacing one evil with another is not the answer. Historically, Nihangs were teh sevadaar of Akaal Takht, and Gurdwarai were run by various factions i.e. Udasin, Nirmalai, Nihangs etc. I suppose if foul play was at hand anywhere, the Panth would collectively resolve or any individual Singh would take it upn himself to do teh 'seva'. These were the good ol'days when the 'Singhs' were the law. That aside, I do believe a variety of practices existed within the Panth and were tolerated within reason. The only voting system was the Gurmatta, you can look up the details of this on teh net, to see when it was used. This is what I think we should return to, with the leaders of the various Panthic groups being the ones allowed to participate in teh Gurmattas and choose 5 Singhs to do seva at Akaal Takht.

If the system was honest, then those with shardaa, respect for Guru and Gursikh jeevan would ensure that their votes benefited the Panth (present adn future) rather than themselves. Personally I believe a fair and representative cross section of the Khalsa jathebandiyan inc the old orders (non-Singh) should control all matters Gurdwara adn Sikh, as the voting system in Indian is simply a corrupted means for those with power to stay in control 9or gain control).

Traditionally, 'Singhs' have done seva and made decisions regarding panthic matters via Gurmattas or from Takht Sahibs etc. Yes, alongside, Nirmalai, Sevapanthi and Udasis (most not being Singhs) have also played roles, but they are not Sehajdhari or Patits, they are Sadhus, and the people fitting the above defition i.e. drinking, kes kathal types are not part of these recognised non-Singh Sikh traditions. Go to any traditional Sikh jathaabandi, and seva of all types is still carried out by Singhs as per puratan Maryada. The puratan rehits also discriminate against non-Singhs in different matters, so the scenario is actually old. Sehajdhari, be that slow adopter or whatever you want to call it i.e. non Singh Sikhs, have always played a role supporting the Singhs etc, but the Panth most def needs to be run by jeevan valai Gursikh. Today they are asking for voting rights, tomorrow they will be asking for the seats of authority, where do you draw the line. Also, I don't classify these people as Sehajdhari either, as Sehajdhari traditionally were Sikhs who lived a dharmic life, did paat, did seva they were allowed to do, followed Sri Guru Granth Sahib, but had just not taken amrit. These people are mostly just born into Sikh families, do what the hell they like, go to Gurdwara on special occassions and think they have the right to everything Sikh (sorry if this sounds like stereotyping, but I am basing it 1t hand on the nonsense quoted above from the Sehajdhari org). Sehajdhari is also a title which needs to be earnt, being a born into a Sikh family and living a hip hop lifestyle does not make you a Sehadhari, these guys are just ultimately looking for long term opportunity to find 'respectable positions' in Sikh society. In teh UK we have inherited a generation of Gurdwarai run by so called Sehajdhari - look at the mess its gotten us into, its beyond a joke. Gurdwarai need to be run by passionate jeevan vale Gursikh, who have the interests of the Gurus words/rehits/culture and long-term religious benefit of Sikhi in mind for what will be challenged future generations.

"‘If a person who trims his beard is not a Sikh, a person who colours his /her hairs is not a Sikh who goes to the beauty parlour is not a Sikh, who consumes alcohol is not a Sikh, then who is left behind to be called a Sikh’, questioned the SSF leaders." What a sad, sad, sad, sad state of affairs...

Tony has actually made some very good points, irrelevant of his stance (or lack of) on Guru Gobind Singhs bani.

Fixyaup lotion. Praying Mantis is a very hard style, drills aim to toughen practitioners up so they are pain resistant, whilst being able to generously give out the same.. Genuine Pukulan Silat (rare now, as most Silat has sadly become a sport or exhibition) styles are also very hard/aggressive, and they utilise a similar healing application (based on Indian Medicine, as Silat is an Indian fighting form, adopted by the Indonesian-Muslims). Basically, these medicines heal up your bruises in a day or so, so you can continue your training more quickly. They also help to ensure your ligaments, muscles and bones are kept healthy for the long term, as those who don't use the medicines, have been known to deveop problems later on in life due to the hard conditioning culture.

"Yes, but its the west that promote it like it is a desirable practice. Most eastern cultures have (or should I say had?) a degree of convervatism in this respect." Actually, until the 1960s, UK and US were very conservative, and before that it was taken to legendary levels i.e. the Victorians, the influence of which still exists in Sikhs today. One only needs to read Dasm Bani to see that the 'actions' of man have not changed over the centuries or even millenia. West may have promoted this trash recently, but the East is already taking it to another level. It goes in circles. All I am saying its foolhardy blaming a group. If our group fails its because of us, not because of them. The Panj Chor will exist and manifest anyway, irrelevant of whether the west exists or not. We are just in a bad time at the moment were dharma has seen massive decline...

Infidelity/Adultry is a sign of the times, it is not confined to 'Brits' its a human (animal) weakness. MTV/Hip Hop culture is a global phenomenan - the differences (good and bad) between cultures, faiths, tribes etc are fast being wiped out - the world population is fast becoming one big shared trash culture. Youth in Peru, US, UK and Papua NG are singing the same crap songs and acting the same crap way (Lust Lust Lust), all wearing jeans with belts tied around their knees to boot. People should look to see what goes in Punjab nowadays, puts many 'Brits' to shame. Also, Brit 'Sikhs' may have been different to their indigeneous counterparts 20 years ago, but today they are the same in nearly everysingle way.

Sri Krishan Ji when teaching Arjuna, talks of himself, not as the cowherder (sansaari roop) but as the supreme consciousness - he sees the immutable and indestructable Brahman only (within) - who is beyond gunas, absolutely free and the creator of the Universe. He does not claim this 'awareness' for himself only - he tells Arjuna that he too can become 'aware of Brahman' if he develops the right understanding. He is trying to transfer this 'vision of truth' to his disciple.... ultimately, he is saying there is no difference between them, but it is for Arjuna to develop that divine undertanding and pure concsiousness.

Highly interesting!! Thanks so much for posting brother, there are many Gurmat Sangeet treasures in this beautiful bani. PS Jori and Tabla are different drums, and so is the style of playing them (the bol). The bani here clearly shows kulai hath bol of a jori as per Sikh music tradition i.e. deep emphasising hits da da da daaaaaa etc.

Paul really is a tuffnut, I could tell you a few stories.... He teaches Kalari also and is practitioner of Chinese and Indian (south) traditional medicine. I buy my Ditdarjow from him now, and many respected teachers in the UK also use his conditioning medicines. All joking aside, Ip Shui is a real Master, and is Dad was a legend. Their speed, power and skill was unbelievable. Apart from Pauls school their is another associated with Master Ip Shui which is run in London by Sifu Mark Leung.

An intro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0wRqR9J8WA&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlInJFHw5mQ&feature=related PS Henry Sue is Bad A*s!

Forget 'daraphobic' boxing dude, why not do something much more fun and deadly if you like aggression, like Mantis Boxing. Will post a thread in a mo. There are good schools in US, UK and AU. Mantis is very fast, very powerful and one of the rare arts that trains in Qi Gong with regards to handling pain and increasing power. It's a step up from Wing Chun in my opinion, although it has many similar principles i.e trapping and hitting etc. But it has more punch/hand forms and focuses a little more on devastation and harnessing chi.

Conditioning hands, elbows, shins and the body generally is standard process in any serious martial artists regime. But these guys take it unbelievable extremes.. I have come across a few Teachers who have have told me stories of their old teachers opening cococunts with their bare hands....

They shouldn't have used a kirpan or kara on the unarmed man, who ever he was. This is going to cause massive problems... I wish people could think ahead of their nose.

"What pain could you possibly cause me that my Teacher hasn't caused me already...?" A true teacher makes his student fearless... The fruits of realistic training, and a non-commercial/non-economic/non-political/non-self promoting traditional knowledge/schooling, which is only taught to the select few who agree to 'endure' the pain (wisdom) through which the real teacher ensures the ancient legacy breathes on. Blessed are those who find a real teacher (Warrior).

"A true Champion, is someone, who is bent over drenched in sweat and at the point of exhaustion, when no one else is watching....."

As I have said before, I judge individuals, not groups. Funnily enough, nearly all Nihangs I have met have been totally amazing, rehitvaan and passionate individuals. But I am not blind. Ajit Singh Phoola will always be a nasty stain on the Nihang tradition.

Great documentary.

The single most effective thing that will help is intervention by PM Manmohan Singh - and international pressure/exposure for a fair trial (which has sort of started).

"Seriously though Shaheediyan, you seem to have bundles of empathy/apathy for other communitites but abject disdain for much of your own sometimes." I don't have abject disdain or empathy for any community - I actually try and see all people as one race, I simply judge individuals on their actions. It's no mystery that 'many' Muslim countries hold the death sentance for people dealing in drugs/alchohol, including their own people. As I said, I didn't pass judgement on anyone. "Besides, if we took UAE's example here in the UK, we'd be mass executing Paks for their heavy involvement in the drugs trade over here, especially 'browns' or smack or whatever it is called aj kal." Again, I make these comments because the accusations are always one way, no one here looks at their own community before critisising others. Who runs the 'drugs' trade on the West coast of US and CA? I'll give you a clue, not Pakistanis. In my younger years, I have sadly personally known quite a few people from Sikh origin that have been 'big time' drug dealers in various parts of the UK, may surprise you, but they all dealt with their Jamaican and Pak counterparts with much love. In reality, crime does not care about communities - criminals are all one big happy family, irrelevant of the 'community' act they may put on. American History X although a movie, tells an excellent truth on this subject. Everyone blames everyone else but is blind to their own faults - on an individual and community level. As for laws in Muslim countries, thats their business. If people don't like them, then don't go/live there. I like the laws in the UK, hence I live here, when I don't like them, I will consider moving. I have met plenty of people including Iraqis, Iranians, Afghans and Pakistanis who hate the legal system, and some even hate Islam, they have decided to leave their respective countries, and set up a modern/freer lifestyle here, thats what people do.

"Weapons like the sudarshana chakra were available in Mahabharat times to Dharmic heroes. Are these still available in kaljug? How would one go about obtaining them?" Why, what you got planned...?

Feel better now Tony. I was simply presenting a 'factual observation' regarding this very subject, as opposed to speculation or person opinion, I passed no comments on these Singhs, unlike you, I don't actually know if they are guilty or not, only that 'Singhs' are very well known for dealing in liquer and drugs on both sides of the border.

Not sure about these guys, but its no big secret that 'Singha' are big time deals in intoxicants in Pakistan and Punjab. In 1991 whilst on a Yatra, my mum saw a group of them unashamedly dealing at Nankana Sahib. No one batted an eye lid. They buy drugs in Pakistan and sell them to youth in India. And sell Indian liquor in Pakistan.