shaheediyan

Life is for each man a solitary cell whose walls are mirrors. - Eugene Oneill

There doesn't need to be a super plan, let me tell you what I have heard in terms of what some 'proud Sikhs' told me: Their lumberdaar grandfather personally rounded up the sikhs from their and surrounding villages and told them about the attrocities on the other side of the border, khoon ka badla khoon, they got their jathai into a frenzied state and told them not to leave one Muslim alive (killing innocent old, female and children in the process). That mate, is plan enough for ethnic cleaning to take place. Later they were celebrating their act, and the lumberdaar of course celebrating his bigger property/land portfolio. This doesn't take away from the fact that many henious crimes were exacted on Sikhs and Hindus on the other side of the border, but to bury your head in the sand and say 'they started it', whilst justifying or twisting the actions of our people is the heigh of primitive thinking. If everyone simply admitted to the true story, especially that coming from their side, the matter could be put rest. But the seed of hate is buried deep.

"The subject tonight is Love And for tomorrow night as well, As a matter of fact I know of no better topic For us to discuss Until we all Die!" (Hafiz, Persian Poet, 1325 - 1389)

There you go again having a conversation with yourself. Where did I say Sikhs should allow themselves to be killed! Likening or grouping a war/fight with agressors to the 'ethnic cleansing, rape and land theft' that occured on our side of Punjab is nothing more than propoganda . I'm all for showing no mercy to villains, but killing of innocents is degraded human state, not a Sikh one. And when I use the word Nazi, I use it to describe someones ideology, the person is irrelevant. Words are and have always been subject to evolution, association, used in metaphoric context etc. I really don't think victims of any nation would have an issue with the name of their murderers being used to describe the thinking of 'other' people who are also harbouring facist tendencies. Everyone knows thoughts lead to action, and reality, those who harbour these thoughts play a weighting game. They wait for the right opportunity and plant seeds whenever they can. The acts of evil which were seen on both sides of the border, and are seen all around the world are not just spontaneous, they are the acts of people who have been watering their hate for some time.

I don't use the word Nazi on everyone. In fact, I think I have only ever used it on Tony and our old friend Bahadur Ali. Although not strictly correct - the word used in the modern context still has strong connotations of its original meaning - which namely stood for a party which was facist and anti-semetic. Using this word to describe anyone's facist mindset towards all Muslims (all Sikhs or any race/people for that matter) is not off the mark in my opinion. FYI, 'ethnic' cleansing was part and parcel of the India/Pakistan divide, and I have heard 'Sikhs' admit it from their own mouths. In my view, those who targeted and murdered innocent Sikh or Muslims, for simply being that, were akin to Nazis (irrelevant of the circumstances). There are many, many other examples of ethnic cleansing or Facist behaviour which poison the world all over today, their paapi mat is no different from Adolf Hitlers.

Like I said, read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. It utilises music, poetry, Sadhus, folklore, religions, languages, concepts etc etc from a whole rainbow of cultures. No one is talking about tolerance, in fact Gurbani doesn't teach tolerance, it teaches love, there is a big difference. To think the 'Raj' got shafted because there were Hindus and Muslims in high places is nonsense. You will find many Sikhs were to blame also. In any case, the multiculturism I was talking about was at a peoples level i.e. the subjects of the state and their freedom to practice/explore/study their beliefs/culture freely. This is what Amritsar was like before the onset of the British - a melting pot of schools of different faiths and learning centre for many languages.

Take a break from the SA 'News' and 'Politics' and enjoy some class kirtan :-) with Dr Gurinder Singh Ji: Raag Malaar - Partaal Har Jan Bolat P1 P2

Who said it was fine/ok? May be stop reading what you think is written and try reading what I actually wrote. Multiculturism has always been part and parcel of Sikhi, try reading the Guru Granth Sahib.

"One's personality can be understood from the people they mingle with" - Kazi Shams

As you have evidenced, in the the 'take over' of a people, destroying their intelligence/art/culture/faith is and has always been part and parcel of invasion. That it was English and Punjabis is only a detail. What was meant to be was meant to be, it's history. What we can take comfort in, is that the 'Sikh Kingdom' had some great atributes, that is something to celebrate and hopefully replicate, be it at a macro level in our own lives (thoughts and actions). :-)

Thanks for sharing Dalsingh. Goes to show how plural and secular M Ranjit Singhs government and rule was when you look at the % of Urdu/Persian/Sanskrit etc that was studied and how all the 3 main religious groups enjoyed total religious/educational freedom.

A small gift.

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fat-heh Shahi-Shahaan-Shah Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj de Avtarpurb te sariyan Guru diyan sangtan nu lakh lakh vadiyan. May we all find inspiration and understanding in Dasmesh Pitas kamal charan. Below is the most beautiful tribute ever written to our Guru, by one of his most esteemed followers, Bhai Nand Lal Ji Goya..... please take out 5 minutes to read this and remind ourselves of the greatness of our 10th master. Tenth Guru - Guru Gobind Singh Jee (In Prose.104) The Almighty is the Truth The Almighty is Omnipresent The defender and the protected is Guru Gobind Singh, Embraced by the Almighty is Guru Gobind Singh.(105) The godly treasure is Guru Gobind Singh, Splendour of celestial kindness is Guru Gobind Singh.(106) Guru Gobind Singh is the kindly light for the seekers of truth, Guru Gobind Singh is the sovereign of the sovereigns.(107) Guru Gobind Singh is the monarch of both the worlds. Guru Gobind Singh is the annihilator of the enemies.(108) Guru Gobind Singh is the shower of divine light. Guru Gobind Singh is unraveller of celestial secrets.(109) Guru Gobind Singh discerns the obscured phenomena. Guru Gobind Singh is the cloud of auspicious showers.(110) Popularly accepted is Guru Gobind Singh. Guru Gobind Singh is united with and is a means to unite men with the Almighty.(111) Guru Gobind Singh is endower of existence to the world. Guru Gobind Singh is the ocean of godly kindness.(112) Guru Gobind Singh is cherished by the Almighty. Guru Gobind Singh is in the divine quest and a favourite of the people.(113) Guru Gobind Singh is an adept in swordsmanship. Guru Gobind Singh is nectar for the life and the soul.(114) Guru Gobind Singh is the master of the crowns. Guru Gobind Singh is the reflection of the celestial shadow.(115) Guru Gobind Singh is the treasurer of all wealth. Guru Gobind Singh decimates all agonies.(116) Guru Gobind Singh is the sovereign of both the worlds. In both the realms there is none as good as Guru Gobind Singh.(117) The Almighty, himself, is the minstrel of Guru Gobind Singh. Guru Gobind Singh manifests ideal traits.(118) The prominent godly adherents pay obeisance at the feet of Guru Gobind Singh. The divine followers remain under the command of Guru Gobind Singh.(119) The celestially accepted ones applaud Guru Gobind Singh. The mind and the body are divinely directed by Guru Gobind Singh.(120) The infinite one kisses the feet of Guru Gobind Singh. Victory-drums of Guru Gobind Singh are beaten in both dominions.(121) All the three realms are in obedience to Guru Gobind Singh. All the four corners are under the supremacy of Guru Gobind Singh.(122) The whole universe is a slave of Guru Gobind Singh. The valour of Guru Gobind Singh is the eradicator of enemies.(123) Guru Gobind Singh is plain-hearted and above malice. Guru Gobind Singh is the truth and the mirror of truthfulness.(124) The truthfulness of Guru Gobind Singh is pragmatic. The pious Guru Gobind Singh is the sovereign.(125) Guru Gobind Singh showers the benevolence, Guru Gobind Singh endows the riches and the boons.(126) Guru Gobind Singh is the most charitable. Guru Gobind Singh is kind to kind-hearted ones.(127) Guru Gobind Singh endows boons to the endowers of blessings. Guru Gobind Singh is the most sensitive observer.(128) Guru Gobind Singh remains forever and is resolute. Guru Gobind Singh is compassionate and auspicious.(129) Guru Gobind Singh is the embodiment of the omnipotent Almighty. Guru Gobind Singh is the ray of godly luminosity.(130) Those who listen to to the name of Guru Gobind Singh, Through the benevolence of Guru Gobind Singh, get godly vision.(131) Those who praise the entity of Guru Gobind Singh, Achieve the benevolence and generosity of Guru Gobind Singh.(132) The narrators of the merits of Guru Gobind Singh, Through the kindness of Guru Gobind Singh attain eminence.(133) The ones who perceive the glimpse of Guru Gobind Singh, Feel exhilarated in the avenues of Guru Gobind Singh.(134) Those who revere the dust at the feet of Guru Gobind Singh, Through the bounties of Guru Gobind Singh, are accepted.(135) Guru Gobind Singh is adept in all the pursuits. Guru Gobind Singh is the shelter for the destitute.(136) Guru Gobind Singh is a devotee as well as worthy of veneration. Guru Gobind Singh is the embodiment of kindness and magnanimity.(137) Guru Gobind Singh is the chief of the leaders. Guru Gobind Singh is the magnificent resource for godly attainment.(138) All the angels are in attendance to Guru Gobind Singh, And are the admirers of the beneficence of Guru Gobind Singh.(139) Even the pious procreator of the world attends upon Guru Gobind Singh. She serves and facilitates Guru Gobind Singh.(140) Even the nature is subordinate to Guru Gobind Singh. It desires to remain imbued with veneration of Guru Gobind Singh.(141) All the seven heavens are the dust of the feet of Guru Gobind Singh, And are efficient and clever servers of Guru Gobind Singh.(142) The lofty celestial throne is obedient to Guru Gobind Singh. Guru Gobind Singh will prevail till the eternity.(143) The honour and merits of Guru Gobind Singh are the loftiest, As Guru Gobind Singh retains an eternal throne.(144) Due to Guru Gobind Singh, this world is enlightened. Through the kindness of Guru Gobind Singh both, the mind and the soul, bloom.(145) The status of Guru Gobind Singh enhances day by day. Guru Gobind Singh is the honour of the place of regality.(146) Guru Gobind Singh is truly the preceptor of both the worlds. Guru Gobind Singh endows the light of discernment to all the visions.(147) The whole universe is under the command of Guru Gobind Singh, And the splendour of Guru Gobind Singh is magnificent.(148) Both the domains are in the lineage of Guru Gobind Singh. All the people are holding the apparel of Guru Gobind Singh.(149) Guru Gobind Singh is liberal in bestowing benevolence. Guru Gobind Singh is the opener of all the portals.(150) Guru Gobind Singh is brimful with compassion. Guru Gobind Singh retains the absolute character.(151) Guru Gobind Singh is the eternal soul of all the beings. Guru Gobind Singh is the internal glow of each vision.(152) All earn the sustenance from the portal of Guru Gobind Singh. Guru Gobind Singh showers the clouds of godly kindness.(153) Twenty-seven continents are begging of Guru Gobind Singh. And all the seven regions sacrifice themselves for Guru Gobind Singh.(154) All the five elements pay tributes to Guru Gobind Singh, And they remain the servers of the household of Guru Gobind Singh.(155) Benevolent hand of Guru Gobind Singh is over both the realms. All the gods and the angels remain humble in the presence of Guru Gobind Singh.(156) (Nand) Lal is a slave-dog at the portal of Guru Gobind Singh. He is endowed with the sign of a stamp of Guru Gobind Singh.(!57) His status is lower than that of the dogs of Guru Gobind Singh. He is the one who takes the leftover from the dinner of Guru Gobind Singh.(158) This slave aspires for the reward from Guru Gobind Singh, Which is the dust from the pious feet of Guru Gobind Singh.(159) May his life be sacrificed for Guru Gobind Singh, And may his head rest at the feet of Guru Gobind Singh.(160)

You disregard well known psychological concepts like association in place of gimmicks which look like they were invented on Top Gear in order to camouflage your facist/hateful heart. Bravo!

Dalsingh, Tony is just a modern day Sucha Nand, he would have no problem with the removal of evil child Muslims. Tony, me having respect for everyday people making a choice to improve their lives does not make me dhimmi. You however clearly remain a Nazi. It wouldn't surprise me if you were one these pathetic supporters of the BNP and EDL, hoping these Knights in shining armour will rid your adopted country of the Malech, as you can't personally do much to help the cause yourself except for typing a few hate posts in the safety of your armchair whenever you see an opportunity. Pathetic. I bet if it ever came down to the crunch, loud mouthed internet Ninjas like you (clearly devoid of any of Gurus mat and pyaar) would be 1st to stick a pakistani flag outside your house.

Tell the truth Tony, you are Kanto Lall aren't you, lol.

Lol, the only worrying mentality in that debate was your friend 'Kanti Lall'... unbelievable! To stereotype millions of hardworking and well educated people around the world who find some beauty and peace in Islam as idiots is the height of hate and idiocy. The people who converted in the show all seemed like nice, sensible and peacable people who all seem calm and happy with their new life. Good luck to them. westerners convert to Buddism, Hinduism, Sikhism (mostly 3HO)and many other religions/philosophies as is Gods wish. I know plenty of westerners following all the above paths, including Islam - they are all very nice and 'content' people. More important than the religion they convert to is the deeper meaning of life that they find - which follows similar lines in most of these faiths - it's just a matter of coincidence where people end up. What all these new converts have in common is their fresh outlook, questioning and researching ability - they seek rather than plain accept as most who are born into these faiths - meaning they find much more.

Abortion is murder within any religion or without. The only area of discussion in most communities is what to do in the case of rape.

My 2 paisa. All my mums side of the family live in Edmonton. There has been a massive influx of BC Sikhs to Alberta due to economic reasons as well as people getting away form the gandh gang culture, and sad in some cases, bringing it with them. Alberta seems to be an excellent place for business/opportunity etc. There is a massive Sikh population in Edmonton now (and Calgary - which is where the Unis are I think). Prices have gone up in recent years - but I think you can still buy a nice detached 3/4 bedroom house with garage etc in a decent neighbourhood for around £200k. Many people apply for the land lottery (to buy a land parcel) and build new houses to their own spec - this works out cheaper. All my Massers, Mamai etc have done this. Food, clothes, Fuel etc is cheaper than the UK, but then on average, salaries across most industries pay less than here and you get less annual leave (although not quite as pathetic as US). Toronto is more cosmopolitan and caters more for Finance sector etc also with a big Sikh population. Grass always look greener on the other side - but people and problems are same everywhere. CA is more traditional than UK (in bad ways as well as good) due to it having a much bigger influx of freshies - there sharaab culture is not anywhere near as big as in the UK. Personally - in CA, have always found Nova Scotia very appealing for a number of reasons (except the weather lol). Their local Gurdwara even has a Gora Singh Pardhaan :-)

Very good idea for a project. I hope they do make some effort in procuring quality puratan or reproduced shastar, and not the cheap tak you see many gatka akharai and Sikh youth carrying around. It's very important for youth to know about their virsa.

Jattboot, sorry for being pedantic, but have a look at the laws of Manu. You will find them very much comparable to Abrahamic faiths. Strict laws governed all aspects of life even in Sri Ram Chandras time. Here is an interesting read to give you a taster. http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/avijit/slavery_hinduism.htm

Yes. I'll send one up for you via Ishvar Singh.

I am not talking in generic terms. I am simply talking in terms of things which would have been a lot more common in the past. Dalsingh, you are comparing apples with pears. I am simply talking about the meeting of 2 Gursikhs who knew and obviously respected each other and hadn't seen each other for some time. I can't help but believe 10th Masters hukum of Fat-heh parvaan karni and treating any guest that came to your home like the Guru himself is somewhat different to what we experience today. I am telling you the truth when I say going to Central London everyday, 90% of Singhs I see blatantly try and ignore you. I can only guess the reasons, but I expect it may be some sort of embarresment of having to put their hands together and acknowledge another turban in front of trendy City crowd. If you read sakhian, you will see the love that Sikhs had for each other, yes it would not have been in every case, but would certainly have been massively larger % than now. I am sure every Singh wasn't a Bhujangi, Raagi and Vidhvaan either, but they certainly would have had much more basic knowledge of these areas than the dismal useable knowledge your average Singh posses today.

Ok chaps. That's how NOT to do it! Your story reminds me somewhat of a book I read and film I watched for my English GCSE many moons ago... 'Kes', see if you can get hold of it!

Dalsingh or anyone else here - do you have a PDF of Parchiyaan? Thanks.