ms514

Sat Sri Akal: Ai, such a serious forum! Hehehe. I sense some animosity towards the AKJ group. :shock: Oh well, to each his own. :wink: Truth Singh Ji, you are asking why did Nirankaris go against Sikhism. No references for this one, just common sense. People at the head of groups sometimes crave power and ego-inflation. To substantiate their claim to being a Guru or something equivalent in status, the leader will try to downplay or even outright slander people who threaten their status. Hence, to secure his platform, Baba Gurbachan slandered the Gurus for the purposes to make himself look superior. And Indira was looking for just that type of person to irritate the Sikh Panth. So she made him a leader of the Sikh Panth on international visits and gave him the platfor m to preach his hatred because it served her purposes. So the answer to your question why did Baba Gurbachan go against Sikhism? Simply, selfish ego and power-trip. And he paid for it with his life as did his Master, Indira.

Sat Sri Akal: lalleshavri Sahib, you are a real cut up! The person who did away with Gurbachan, leader of the Sant Nirankaris was Former Jathedar Ranjit Singh, member of the AKJ!!! Looks like the AKJ did produce someone positive eh?

Sat Sri Akal: So Gurbaksh Singh (aka. Banda Singh Bahadur) was not a Sikh eh? What next, I wonder... Well, one source begs to differ. Mahan Kosh, by Bhai Kahn Singh of Nabha, writes: "Madhodas surrendered to Satguru Ji and called himself Guru's Banda. Kalgidhar Ji bestowed him with Amrit and named him Gurbakhash Singh, however he continued to be known as 'Banda' in the Panth." Page 894, Mahan Kosh. Credit goes to Sikhnet post by Bhai Yuktanand Singh (http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/0/A49F11F3874B190587256BA20019F19E?OpenDocument).

Sat Sri Akal: Simple point: There are some creatures in nature that form life partnerships. Humans happen to be one of them (that is how we are created). Otherwise, human society would have embraced multiple partnerships into their civilization. The real problem is that in this technological age, people are bombarded with sexual imagery over and over. Similarly, if I was to poke you in the hand over and over, you would notice sooner or later. Therefore, the latent drive that exists in humans for procreation is enhanced (too much so I think) by the media blitz of sex. The point of Sikhism is to live amongst the 5 vices in this world, but not to be slaves to them (in fact conquer them).

Sat Sri Akal: Rakhri is a festival smbolizing a brother's pact with his sister to protect her in any and every way. It is primarily a festival that Hindus celebrate. It is quite unnecessary in Sikhism as every Sikh, man or woman, is to keep a Kirpan of their own and be able to defend themselves (not to mention that is seems a little sexist...Women are percieved as too weak to defend themselves so their brothers must protect them).

Sat Sri Akal: Here are a few quotes from Gurbani about happiness: gaeiaa kalaes bhaeiaa sukh saachaa har har naam samaalee jeeo ||1|| Suffering has been dispelled, and true happiness has dawned, as we meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Raag Maajh, 105. naanak dhaas eihai sukh maagai mo ko kar sa(n)than kee dhhoorae ||4||5|| Nanak, Your slave, begs for this happiness: let me be the dust of the feet of the Saints. ||4||5|| Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Sohila, 13. sukhaa kee mith kiaa ganee jaa simaree govi(n)dh || How can I measure the happiness of meditating on the Lord of the Universe? Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Siree Raag, 48. naanak bin naavai sabh dhukh sukh visaariaa ||1|| O Nanak, without the Name, everything is painful, and happiness is forgotten. ||1|| Guru Amar Daas Ji, Siree Raag, 86. If you are really interested in the topic, go to www.sikhitothemax.com and do a search using the word happiness. There are too many quotes from Gurbani pertaining to the topic (even how to botain true happiness ).

Sat Sri Akal: Meeting the Almighty or having the vision of the Almighty is the objective of every Sikh. Itis not considered a paltry delusion or magic trick, it is the Divine Blessing of the Almighty. Each page of Guru Granth Sahib is riddled with words stating that Union with the Akal Purakh is the highest level of existence and should be persued with the utmost diligence. I have also read the book "Rangle Sajjan". There are mentions of Siddhis that Sikhs of high spiritual levels recieved. Such Siddhis are recognized as existing in the Guru Granth Sahib. They are rejected if they become the sole reason for doing Bhagati, as they can contribute to ego (as was the case with the Siddhs that Guru Nanak Sahib debated with). However, the Almighty can and has blessed humans with them for their devotion to the Almighty. Hopefully that answers your question.

Sat Sri Akal: What is Khalistan? It is a place where the Khalsa reside. If the Khalsa are present, Khalistan will arise. Who is demanding it? Guru Sahib. ""Raj bina na dharam challay hay! Dharam bina sabh dlaay mallay hay!" Words attributed to Dasm Patshah in Guru Partap Suraj Granth. Who will lead Khalistan as country? The Khalsa, through its representatives, the Panj Pyare. Are we going to have democracy? See above. Are we going to have the same conflicts of Gurbani Ragmala and meat eating issues? These issues will be resolved in Khalistan. What do we have for defense side of Khalistan? I mean if any other country attacks khalistan how are we going to save ourselves? The most lethal weapon of all time: Guru Di Kirpa. Remember "Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh". The Khalsa is of the Akal Purakh...only the Almighty can destroy the Khalsa...no other power. History has proven that already. Biggest thing needed is KHALSA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sat Sri Akal: "aad aneel anaad anaahat jug jug ayko vays. ||31|| The Primal One, the Pure Light, without beginning, without end. Throughout all the ages, He is One and the Same. ||31|| " Japji Sahib. Sorry folks, the creator has always been there, even before the creation. Tough concept to swallow for finite beings that we humans are.

Sat Sri Akal: If my words felt harsh, I apologize. They were not meant to be.

Sat Sri Akal: Before we get into the thick of this, can someone please provide a reference to the said question? Or it is a he-said-she-said type of thing?

Sat Sri Akal: Perhaps before making that comment about Jesus not being able to get into SachhKhand, one should read the words of Jesus himself. They can be found in the New Testament in the Four Gospels. Through those scattered quotes, one can figure out that Jesus was a very spiritually enlightened person. And just because some person puts a quote in a book or website does not make it an irrefutable fact. Perhaps one should probe the author of the book (if still alive) to provide references to his material? Finally, unless anyone here is a Brahm-Gyani and has visited SachhKhand and done a head count of who is there, do not make such assertions. I am not a Champion of Christianity or anything. But I do hope that people will not engage in judging Saints and enlightened beings (or at least until we ourselves become equally enlightened) when it is based on one person's writing.

Sat Sri Akal: People do it because their parents did it. There is nothing to stop one from sitting on the other's side. Somewhere, it kinda got adopted.

Sat Sri Akal: Typical of European works on Sikhism: WRONG!!! This chart would have us think that the Bandai Khalsa are the "ancestry" of the Sikhs. In actuality, it is the Tat (Pure) Khalsa. The most stupid problem with this chart is that it attemptsto break Sikhs apart based on the most ridiculous of things: Location. I see a Caucasian Sikh in the same light as an African Sikh: A SIKH!!! Aiaiaiaiaia!!! P.S. No offence meant at you Bhai Nogroup Singh!

Sat Sri Akal: The ten Guru Sahiban pounded down the best lyrics of this age. Ain't no Tupac or Big Poppa lyric that can compete!!!

Sat Sri Akal: Forgot to mention this in other post. Baba Maan Singh made an excellent point in his katha, "16 Days with Sant Baba Maan Singh" (it was posted here too). He states that if Guru Gobind Singh chopped the heads off the goats, then the Khalsa Panth would be made up of goats!!!

Sat Sri Akal: A new account by one Abu-Ul-Turani, former spy for Auragnzeb was found in Aligarh University Librery. In it, Turani states that the Guru Sahib did not take the Panj Pyare into a tent, but chopped the heads of the five in front of the sangat!!! This is in starj contrast to the "traditional"account, which states that goats were slaughtered. Turani himself felt compelled to take amrit afterwards, and became Ajmer Singh Your choice to believe either one. I'll post the account below: _________________________________________________ Vaaheguroo jee kaa Khaalsaa. Vaaheguroo jee kee Fateh. Below is the version which "Abu-ul-Turani" has narrated in his book or memoirs presumed to be held in the archives of the Aligarh University. It is a record of accounts that are supposedly eye-witnessed by "Abu-ul-Turani", who was under the employment of Emperor Aurangzeb. The Emperor had instructed him to keep a watchful eye on Guru Sahib and act as the Emperor's informer to keep him informed of all the activities and movements of Guru Sahib. (Reported to be info from a booklet printed and distributed by Baba Khem Singh jee of Dera Baba Rumee Wala, Bhuchae Kalan , Bathinda. Panjab on Vaisakhi 1998.) --- "The day Guru Gobind Singh prepared the nectar at 'Anandpur' the congregation was estimated to around thirty five to forty thousand sikhs who had come from far and wide. I had seen the grandeur of the 'Mughal Darbars' but this 'Guru's Darbar' had a charm of its own - simply majestic and beyond comparison. The Guru came on the stage and after drawing his sword demanded a 'head' from the 'Sangat' present. This awesome call from the Guru sent a shiver to spines of the sikhs present in the congregation. Amidst all this a brave person emerged from the crowd and with his clasped hands humbly presented himself to the Guru. The Guru, with one stroke if his sword, beheaded the sikh in front of all the stunned 'sangat', and again asked for another 'head'. Another person who came on the stage was similarly beheaded. The Guru made the eerie call again and simultaneously three devout sikhs came on the stage and met the same fate under the merciless sword of the Guru. The stage was a ghastly sight with the torsos and heads of the five drenched in pools of blood. All the trace of blood diminished after the Guru cleaned it with water. The Guru then medically joined each head on a different body and thereafter covered them with white sheets. He then ordered a stone urn and on top of it he put an iron pot in which he added some water. He put his sword in it and started moving it, while chanting some words. He took some time and during this period some woman from the Guru's household came and put something in the pot. The nectar (Abe-Hayat) was now ready. The Guru then removed the white sheets from one body and poured the nectar into the dead man's mouth, on the hair and on the body. While he was performing this ritual he kept on pronouncing "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh"( The Khalsa belongs to the Almighty and to the Almighty is the victory ). To the amazement of the 'sangat', the person sat up and loudly chanted "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh". The whole congregation was aghast and taken aback by this miracle. The Guru did the same to the rest of the four bodies and they also like their counterpart rose up with shouts of "Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh". The Guru then took these five sikhs into a tent and after some time they emerged wearing new white clothes. The Guru then kneeled down in front of them and asked them to give him the life giving nectar. Obligingly they obeyed and baptized the Guru . The Guru named them Daya Singh, Dharam Singh, Himmat Singh, Mohkam Singh and Sahib Singh and consequently changed his name from Gobind Rai to Gobind Singh. What happened in front of my eyes completely entranced me, and my heart longed to be in the Guru's eternal feet. With a lump in my throat, I approached the Guru and begged him to baptize me and take me in his abode. The Guru smiled and baptized me and named me 'Ajmer Singh'. Thus with the Guru's blessing I attained absolute bliss. This was the last report I sent to Aurangzeb in which I mentioned that the Guru was not an ordinary person but was 'Allah' Himself. Furthermore I warned the Emperor that his enmity towards the Guru will lead to the downfall and destruction of the Mughal Empire." ---- Vaaheguroo jee kaa Khaalsaa. Vaaheguroo jee kee Fateh. (Bhai Vir Singh mentions Abu Tarani in his writings of "Dasmesh Chamatkaar". Sant Kartar Singh of Taksaal also mentions that this has been witnessed bhai charan Singh Bhorshee in the book at "Aleegarr Muslim VihavVadiala" and according to Giani Dalip Singh of Komal Dhnaula the writings can be found at the Aligarh Muslim University.)

Sat Sri Akal: There is one link you definitely should check out: http://www.sikhs.org/religion.htm

Sat Sri Akal: We have them too. They are called Dhadhi Jathas. It's just that no one is listening!!!

Sat Sri Akal: Software usually doesn't cause this. The one solution that you could try if you can is to take out ALL the cards from the computer and re-insert them into different slots. If you have even more time on your hands, take out all them components from your computer case and basically re-assemble the computer. ONLY if you know what you are doing should you attempt any of this!!! Otherwise...time to buy new computer or off to the repair shop :wink: BTW, did you try to update your BIOS recently or download/run a new program right before this happened?

Sat Sri Akal: Singh Khalsitan Dah has the right idea. If you observe the layout of a Gurudwara, you will observe that the the hall is called the "Darbar", which is the same as saying the King's Court. The Guru Granth Sahib is out Lord/Emperor. A Sikh, by bowing down to the Guru Granth Sahib is stating that "I am yours" and symbolized complete surrender and willingness to the Emperor's command. Such a stupid rumor is actually from one Varsha Bhosle, who has time and time again tried to belittle Sikhs and their ways. Rather than a meaningless ritual, this doing has a deep meaning with a lot of weight. P.S. We have a reason for bowing down to our Guru Granth Sahib. Go ask this Christian (just to tease their mind ) why they kneel and pray in front of the Christ statue when the Old Testament strictly prohibits any importance to idols (which is what the statue is). See what they have to say just for fun! :twisted:

Sat Sri Akal: A culture is an individual group of people with similar ideals, rules, morality, practices and procedures. Sikh Culture is based on Gurbani and Rehat, combined with community worship of the Almighty. It remains distinct from other cultures and the rules, practices, procedures are clearly laid out in the Rehat Maryada. The ideals and morality are encompassed in Gurbani. Presto...Sikh Culture.

Sat Sri Akal: Guru Gobind Singh Sahib wrote on the matter: http://www.sikhs.org/transl9.htm ___________________________________________ Vachitra Natak, Chapter V by Guru Gobind Singh In the house of the Bedis was born Nanak, the king of kings, Who brought joy to his followers and become their Refuge, both here and in the Hereafter. (4) He established Religion in this Dark age, And showed the Path to all men of Faith. He who accepted His Way, Was afflicted not by Sin. (5) He who followed in his footsteps, Him affected neither Sin nor Sorrow. He was delivered of Pain and Hunger, And was trapped not thereafter by Death. (6) Then, Nanak assumed Angad’s form, And spread this Religion far and wide. Then he was known as Amar Das, As one light lights another. (7) And when came time for the fulfillment of his blessing, He called Ram Das, the Guru. It was in fulfillment of the age old decree of God. And then, Amar Das repaired to the heavens. (8) It was Nanak, the venerable, who was known as Angad. Thereafter, it was Amar Das who assumed the form of Ram Das. All this is known to men of Faith; but the fools know not the Mystery. (9) They distinguish and separate one from the other. And rare is the one who knows that they, indeed were one. They who realized this in their hearts, attained Realization of God. But they who understood it not, were fulfilled not. (10) Ram Das, then merged in God. Appointed Arjun as the Guru. And when Arjun ascended to the heavens, He established Hari Govind in his place. (11) When Hari Govind proceeded to the Abode of God, It was Hari Rai who was seated in his place. After him came Hari Krishna, his son, And then it was Tegh Bahadur who succeeded him. (12) It was for the sake of the sacred thread and the frontal mark of the Hindus, That he performed a great act of chivalry. To protect the holy, he offered all he had., And lo, he offered his head, but uttered not a sigh of regret. (13) He suffered martyrdom for the sake of Religion. His head he gave, but not his honour. God’s men are, indeed ashamed to act Like showmen and perform tricks! (14) Having broken the (body’s) earthen pitcher On the head of the king of Delhi, He departed to the world of God. Nay, not one has performed the Deed That Tegh Bahadur had. (15) The whole world mourned his loss: And cried, Alas, alas, but the domain of gods Resounded with the shouts of Victory, Victory, Victory be to the Man of God. (16)

Sat Sri Akal: Khalsa Ji, great video. Sartaj Singh Sahib has made another great video!

Sat Sri Akal: Through another discussion forum, I was informed about Baba Nihal Singh's (Jathedar of the Tarna Dal) katha on various subjects. Truly inspirational. He giver PROPER respect to Bhai Fauja Singh, mentions Gatka as a Sikh martial art and gives a good katha on the concept of Bani-Banaa/Miri-Piri. Truly inspirational! A MUST to listen to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.panthkhalsa.org/BabaNihalSinghJi/index.html