tSingh

There is Aquinas' 5 justifications back from the 13th century include the 'unmoved mover', that trace back energy to it's original source, there must by definition be an initial cause, this is based on Aristotle's idea of the same about the movement of the universe.

Is the absence of movement/energy, in a physical sense, void? I know someone who could answer these questions from a physics perspective...guv? Are you out there?

Gurfateh

Good questions. I'll answer forward-backward's first - how much of the jiva is agyanta and how much is atma svarup? The notion of mutual superimposition between sakshi atma and the jiva identity (termed tadatmaya adhyas) states that the quailities of consciousness and existence are reflected into the jiva's nature. All else that arises out of that is through bhed, bhram stemming from agyaan - gurbani 'antar agyan dukh bhram hai vich parrda door piaas', the parrda (veil) of bhram (false cognition). There are in fact five types of bhram; sang, kartar-tva, satya-tva, vikaar, bhed. All that arises from this is false. The bhram ka parrda is gurbani's way of explaining the shakti (power) of aavaran, one of the two results of agyaan at the level of the jiva (not something Paramishvar is affected by). Atma chintan - well, strictly speaking you can never truly objectify the atma, totally impossible, and this is because of the distinction between proksh (indirect) and aproksh (direct) gyaan. Any knowledge which you can understand through the mind is mediated through the triputi of object of perception, perceptor and the process of perception (thus it is sarvikalap). When the mind is in ekaagar, when the thoughts fall away, then the empty consciousness of smadhi is entered into 'sun smaadhi'.

There is a very important distinction to be made between avatar and a brahamgyani. The latter has obtained knowledge of braham...but it does not say that the brahamgyani has become avatar, nor has she become bhagvaan. Imagine you walk into a hall of distorted mirrors. The person is reflected in one mirror as a small squat person, in another mirror as a huge collosal person. Whenever that person is being reflected by different mirrors that person appears in different forms. This metaphor only conveys some of what is being explained here. Don't take it as a perfect metaphor. A jiva is affected by agyaan. When it becomes brahamgyani, it continues to be situated in the sthul sareer until prarbdha karam is finished. During this time, it continues to take the jiva's sareer (squat person mirror), and not the vairat sargun braham form of bhagvaan (tall person mirror), even though the essence of both is the same (the same 'person' being nirgun braham). Like I said, avatar and bhagvan is maya-pati. The two, maya and braham are personified in dasam bani as mahakaal and mahakalikaa, and there are clear references to mahakalika residing at the feet of mahakaal. Adhyatam Ramayan has the same with sita being maya-prakriti and Ram as sadchidanand braham.

hope this helps.

Gurfatehji,

Atma cannot be sargun for simple reasons. For Atma and Braham to be one and the same (advaita) they must be of the same essence (sadchidanand). When consciousness is associated with the pure sattvaguna of maya it is called Parmatma/Bhagvan/Ishvar. This is the cause of the gross and subtle manifestation. Braham in sargun form is the ruler of maya. In turn, that same consciousness afflicted by agyaan becomes the jeeva, but it is not possessing sargun attributes in any true sense, for that would imply a real modification of its nature - in other words Maya has given it actual qualities. This form (jeev) which appears to have qualities is a result of ignorance (i.e. the quality of agency, of quality of independence, etc). Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji has written in Gyan Prabodh that Atma and Braham are no different and that their shared qualities are being free of karam, death, difference, illusion, desire, etc. Therefore Atma remains nirgun in essence. Its apparent form as a dynamic living thinking feeling independent being is the result of agyaan.

Hope that helps.

t

Seminar finished. The title was the 'bahupakhi den' of the Nirmale and many pakhis were considered. Maha seva of Sriman 108 Sant Jodh Singh Ji of Nirmal Ashram and Sriman 108 Mahant Balwant Singh Ji Secretary of Panchayti Akhara Nirmala and pradhan of Akhil Bharatiya Akhara Parishad. Many many mahapurush were there who gave wonderful lectures. Very pleased to hear the highly learned pravachans of Sant Darshan Singh Ji Shastri Kashi vale, Sant Jasvinder Singh Ji Shastri and Sant Jail Singh Ji Shasrti, all three part of a new generation of Nirmale. Gyani Sher SIngh Ji Ambale spoke very well about the need for Nirmale to teach the pracharaks in punjab advaitavad (the topic of my paper) in order to combat the prachar of sikh missionary vale. Very impressed with Mahamandaleshvar Mahant Surinder Muni Ji Udasin and the way he spoke about Sant mahapurush generally. My guru Sant Sher SIngh Ji Patiala vale spoke on the origin of the Nirmal Panth which caused small stirs of controversy on the issue of locating the relative place of the Nirmal Panth. Sant Balwant Singh Kotha Guru Ji spoke wonderfully on Gyani Gyan Singh Ji and others. Mahant Amrik Singh Ji spoke on the very interesting topic of the ayurvedic tradition among Nirmale. The full paper should make for very interesting reading. Jathedar Trilochan Singh Ji announced that the recent hukamnama from Akal Takhat about the importance of Udasin and Nirmale, that they are part of the Panth, etc will be printed in english, hindi and punjabi on the SGPC website imminently.

The papers submitted will be published as a book by Panchayti Akhara Nirmala...

Although nothing is set in stone yet, following my paper and at the request of Sriman Sant Jodh Singh Ji, Sriman Bhekh Bhushan Sri Mahant Ji and Secretary Sahib it was announced before the khat darshani sadhu samaj that I will on behalf of and with the support of Panchayti Akhara Nirmala be arranging and holding the first seminar on the Nirmal Sampradaya in London next year! No info yet on who will be attending from over here in Haridvar. Kam expect an incoming pm requesting your seva!!!

In case anyone is interested Sriman Mahant Bhagvant Bhajan Singh Ji will be holding another seminar at Guru Nanak University on the Nirmala Sampradaya and Baba Buddha Ji on the 14th of February (I think).

A bit of shameless advertising in case anyone is floating around India at the moment, (pm me as its invitation only I think):

Through the collaboration of Sriman Sant Jodh Singh Ji of Nirmal Ashram Rishikesh and Sriman Mahant Balwant Singh Ji Secretary the Sri Panchayti Akhara Nirmala will be holding a two day seminar on the Nirmala Sampradaya in Kankhal on the 6th and 7th of December. Papers will be given by a number of Sants, Mahants and scholars.

Mahapurush attending include:
Sriman Nirmal Bhushan Swami Gyandev Singh Ji Vedantacharya
Sriman Sant Jodh Singh Ji of Nirmal Ashram
Sriman Jathedar Tarlochan Singh Ji of Takhat Keshgarh Sahib
Sriman Jathedar Iqbal Singh Ji of Takhat Patna Sahib
Sriman Mahant Rajinder Das Ji Kothari, Udasin Bara Akhara
Sriman Swami Bhagat Ram Ji, Udasin Naya Akhara
Sriman Mahant Ravinder Puri Ji, Mahanirvani Akhara
Sriman Mahant Surinder Muni Ji Mahamandaleshvar, Avdhut Jagat Ram Udasin Ashram
Sriman Mahant Bhag Singh Ji Nirmal Doaba Mandal
Sriman Professor Sant Sher Singh Ji
Sriman Dr Jaspal Singh Ji, Vice Chancellor of Punjabi University, Patiala
Sriman Sant Baba Karam Singh Ji Johlan
Sriman Mahant Teja Singh Ji MA
and others

Lectures to be given by:

Sriman Sant Jail Singh Ji Shastri
Sriman Mahant Amrik Singh Ji Amritsar
Sriman Sant Gyani Balwant Singh Ji Kotha Guru
Sriman Gyani Sher Singh Ji Ambala
Sriman Sant Darshan Singh Ji Shastri
Sriman Sant Kamaljit Singh Ji Shastri
Sriman Sant Jasvinder Singh Ji Shastri
Sriman Sant Teja Singh Ji MA
Sriman Prof. Paramjit Singh Mansa
Sriman Dr Shamsher Singh Ji
A paper by myself in English
and others

Shabad Kirtan by Sriman Sant Pritam Singh Ji Dumelivale and others

All papers are to be collated and published by Nirmal Panchayti Akhara afterwards

Because they've only just been printed I'm reluctant, particularly the guru nanak dev university publication which is readily available. I'll try to upload part of mrityuchah pradipika which will be hard to get hold of although be aware its in devanagri not gurmukhi.

While I was in Haridvar I got given a couple of nice new books.

One is the June-December 2009 edition of Sri Guru Nanak Dev University, Amritsar, Nanak Prakash Patrika journal which is solely dedicated to the Nirmala Sampradaya. Lots of very interesting essays submitted at the seminar that was held there including ones by Mahant Balwant Singh Ji Secretary, Sant Darshan Singh Ji Shastri and Sant Jail Singh Ji Shastri.

The other book I was given is Mrityuchinah Pradipika (Bhasha Tika) by Pandit Deva Singh Ji Vedantacharya written in devanagri back in the early 20th century. Its just been published by Mahant Darshan Singh Tyagmurti Ji of Devapura Ashram and Sant Jodh Singh Ji Nirmal Ashram.