Mithr

You wanna see inpressive... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl5Oco3f77A lol

Bahadur Ali wrote: "1. How is the use of haram money by Khojas, Pakistani Shi'a and Sunnis a slap for me? I fail to see the point." So now Khojas(Ismaili Shias), non Irani Shias are not Shias?

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I also hope they have Gurbani from Sarbloh Granth.

Tony hp32, Golestan only see's the murder of Muslims as being murder. For us Kafirs, murder is not even considered murder in his Momin eyes. He actually riducules us for thinking and remembering the horrors our ancestors went through. You go to white nationalist sites, you will see similar tone being expressed for the Jews who try to make them remember of the Holocaust. Now these Holocaust deniers along with their Shia allies are trying to change history which happened so recently. Similarly, Muslims like Bahadur Ali ridicule us trying to intimidate us into staying quiet about the horrors and atrocities his co-religionists inflicted upon our ancesters. But true to salt of our Gurus, we are not going to forget. They are currently using the same stratagy with the Armenians, to keep them quite as well. We will not forget, because those who forget history end up repeating it. Go ahead Bahadur Ali, ridicule us, intimidate us all you like. But we will not get intimidated by the likes of you. We live in free democratic countries where we are allowed to express ourselves and not some Islamic Sharia republic.

singho, A person in Iran's Sharia state gets stoned to death because of their sexual freedom, do you support that? I don't agree with homosexuality or adultry, but do people guilty of these crimes really deserve being stoned to death in your honest opinion? In Sharia Law a person who changes their religion away from Islam is killed, do you support this Singho? Yes or no?

Comparing something so simple as basketball with something as complex as Islam is the most ridiculous analogy you can give. A better analogy would be the religion of Islam with a law of a nation. Now if a nation has such laws which are outdated, violate basic human rights, double standards, hypocritical then it doesn’t take a lawyer or a law professor to question that law. It just takes some common sense. Now if Islam like a nation’s law has some Usuls which violate human rights, have double standards, are hypocritical rules then it just takes common sense to question it. In other words, you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to have common sense. Just use your Aql if you have any. Now you claimed when you wrote to me: “Your own tenth master praises wine in the hikayatan, some rahitname allow it and your medicinal granths mention wine quite often. So there is scriptural evidence in your "religion" to justify what most of you do anyways and for which you are famous for: getting pissed. I don't touch alcohol at all and have gone back to my pre-Sikh ways: no alcohol, no vulgar music.†Now if you had some common sense or Aql before your ‘reversion’ you would know that Sharab is forbidden in Sikhi. You even argue with Sikhs when they would tell you it's forbidden to drink Sharaab. But the Begharat, Bewakoof that you are, you pick and choose what you want to follow while people warned it is against Sikhi. Now you insult Sikhi when you say you were just following “Sikh ways†by drinking and listening to vulgar music. You also wrote on the other thread: “These poisonous blasphemous statements are what has the transformed the noble house of unity between Muslims and Hindus into the whorehouse of hatred and heresy that is modern Sikhism, the brother of Wahabism and Hindu fascism.†Now Sangat Jee, here we have this NaaMard calling our Sikhi a ‘whorehouse’. We all know the only whore here is Bahadur Ali himself. He is the kind of whore who chooses a new Khasam every few years. First it’s Chatholocism, New Age, Sikhi, Shia Islam. This whore changes Khasams as he is changing and wearing new clothing. Out with the old and in with the new. Who knows who his future Khasam is. Then he has the audacity to question our Dharm. It’s not that he has converted to a new religion, but it’s really annoying to see this Naamard trashing our dharm after converting to a new religion.

I don't need to meet your criteria to do anything. If Muslims or even Sikhs, Christians, Jews, Hindus do anything which is hypocritical, double standard I don't need your approval to question that religion. I live in a free country, unlike your Sharia countries like Iran where people get stoned to death for living life the way they want to live. So until I come to Iran, I can do whatever I want without the fear of persecution and being stoned to death.

This is a good movie made about a very tragic event in Islamic history. This event for Muslims I beleive is just as tragic as the Shaheedi of the Chote Sahibzadas are the hands of the faujdar of Sarhind. Bhaji Tonyhp32 Jee, Bahadur Ali Jee gets way too over melodramatic trying to create a scene out of nothing. Anyone who does not agree 100% with Muslims or Islamic history is a Islamophobe to him. This is something that alot of Muslims in the west are doing now days to make people shamed to even question Islam. Please watch the following video by Pat Condel We should not get intimidated by bullys like these Islamofascists(like Bhaji Bahadur Ali Jee) who try to intimidate us into staying quiet. If people like him can question Sikhi openly, then surely we should also reserve the right to question Islam.

Blasphemy? That’s real rich coming from someone who leaves a religion every few years. Everyone knows about you and your hypocrisy. You're the hypocrite who used to go around always condemning fellow Sikhs of blasphemy this and blasphemy that. Turning brother against brother. Inventing new terms like saying AKJ are Ram Raiyas. I don't agree with AKJ either, but I don't go around acting with a 'holier than thou' attitude passing judgment on everyone who I'm not in agreement with. It's not that a Sikh has converted to Islam, but the thing that really annoys me is to see such a judgmental hypocrite like you condemning every one of heresy and blasphemy to actually leave Sikhi and convert to another religion. Such two-facedness and hypocrisy! Sad thing is, I remember how many fellow Sikhs would actually also support you in condemning Sikh personalities and Shaheeds of our history. Let this hypocrite be a lesson to all Sikhs here. Don’t just get impressed by someone who writes in flashy fancy words against your own brothers. We need to learn to live and accept our minor differences, and not act like the Spanish (or in this case, Portuguese) inquisition. I have made my point, and this will me my last post on this thread.

Bahadur Ali Jee, Where did I say that most Indian Muslims are not Indians? They are as Indian as I am. Amongst Indians of the Sub continent, no more than 10% are actual descendents of central Asians. Most are descendents of converts. Islamic sources are full of horrific accounts of how Indians were forced, intimidated through Sharia policies like Jazia tax, pilgrimage tax to convert to Islam. Not all rulers were as enlightened as Batshah Akbar. The term "Holocaust" is just a term I am using to describe what happened to my people under Islamic rule. Call it holocaust, genocide, gallugara it makes no difference to me. To be fair, those atrocities were committed by Sunni Muslims. I'm not aware of Shias committing these atrocities. Shias were just as persecuted as the Hindus were. But none the less to deny that Muslims (Sunni ones) have not committed atrocities or forceful conversions in India is just a biased version. It is almost like Catholics denying that they did not spread Christianity in South America by the sword. But unlike Muslims, the Catholics don't deny it and even regret it. Just go to Muslim sites in particular Shia sites and see how they are denying the Jewish holocaust. Ahmadinajad has some admirable qualities like great economic policies for his country, courage to face the US, but denying the Holocaust and inviting known white supremacists to give lectures against Jews has seriously damaged his credibility. The real rulers of Iran is the Ayatollah and the revolutionary guards. Nothing in Iran happens without the approval and sanction of the Ayatollah and the revolutionary guards.

Bahadur Ali Jee, There is no denying the holocaust of the people of India had to undergo at the hands of the Muslims. Primary sources (mostly Muslim ones) themselves are witness to the destruction of Indian temples, massacres of Hindus and Sikhs. Of course over exaggeration can be used as an argument for some sources, but you brush aside all primary sources as being over exaggeration is really too much and is nothing short of intellectual dishonesty. For us Indians it is a very serious matter just as the Jewish holocaust is the Jews, or Armenian genocide is to the Armenians. Romila Thapper and Irfan Habib are leftist historians with a leftist agenda. They are the same historians who expound on the Aryan invasion myth, or how ‘enlightened’ Islamic rule was over India, or how the independence movement of the Marathas, Jats, and Sikhs were really marauders out for loot. They are the same leftist historians whose comments about Guru Tegh Bahadur Jee in a text book were deleted because it greatly offended the Sikhs. It’s amazing how you can deny primary sources written by Muslims themselves as mere imagination or over exaggeration, yet quote leftist historians as being the only source of truth. The Iranian Government’s views about the holocaust are supported by most Shias. Ahmadinajad would not dare hold conferences in Iran denying the holocaust attended by known anti-Semites, neo-Nazis, and white supremacists if the Ayatollah was not backing him. What is done is done. Hindus, Christians, Sikhs don’t deny when they have committed atrocities. They accept it and mostly even regret it. But Muslims try to literally change, deny historical facts. This revisionism is intellectual dishonesty.

Bahadur Jee, You have very conveniently sidelined and ignored historical primary records of the destruction of Indian temples at the hand of Islamic hordes from the North West simply because this does not fit into your pre disposition of Islamic history. This is denying historical truth. This is no different from how the Iranian government is trying to deny the Jewish holocaust even happened, or how Sunni Muslims try to say that 9/11 was a Bush/Zionist conspiracy and could not have been done by Muslims.

Good point Shaheediyan. It's very obvious to all who Mahadin was. The term Raja could have been used simply because that was the only political term available at the time for Mohammad Sahib. Tarkhans call Sardar Jassa Singh Ramgaria as "Maharaja", even though he was never crowned. I think the problem with Golestan jee is that he cannot accept any opinion which is not in agreement with his opinions on a subject. Sikh vidhvaan from the start have always translated Mahadin as Mohammad, yet according to Bahadur Ali Jee, those people don't know anything, only he knows the truth. This is hankaar to the max. If I state my opinion according to my soch, he says I don't know anything, if I state that all Sikh schollars from the start also hold this opinion, he says they are also wrong. That means, only he is right. He has a very (overly) high opinion of himself to be honest.

Bahadur Ali Jee, Most Sikhs don't know farsi or arabic, we all know that, this is especially true after 1947. But what about vidhvaans who have done the entire teekaa of Dasam Granth including farsi Banis like Zaffarnama, even they translate Mahadin as Mohammad. Surely they pass the criteria of having the knowledge of Farsi. Everyone in the Panth and various sampradayas unanimously agree that Mahadin is Baba Mohammad Sahib Jee. There is no second opinion in the Panth about this, and neither has there been a second opinion about this. This is one of the few things that the entire Panth unanimously agrees with.

That was a really informative post Bahadur Ali Jee. But the thing is all Vidhvaans to date have translated Mahadin as the Prophet Mohammad whether it is Giani Randhir Singh, Giani Narain Singh, J P Sangat Singh. Even puraatan Sampradayas like the Taksals, Nihangs, Nirmalas have translated Mahadin as Prophet Mohammad.

I beleive that water with water and spart with fire are all spiritual examples which should not be confused with advaitic vedanta. Unfortunately today alot of Sikhs take these examples too literally. Sikhi is not the same as advaitic vedanta of Shankar. I beleive Sikhi is close to Dvait vedanta in terms of thought of the self and Brahman.

Good website, but it needs more articles. They should translate the book by Harbanse Singh into English and put those articles there. That is the book that convinced me that Dasam Granth was written by Dasam Padishah. Before that I was staunchly against most of Dasam Granth Bani all thanks to the propaganda machine of the communist minded Sikhs out there. Dasam Granth is not the Guru, but it's bani was written by the 10th Guru I beleive.

The Bhattras are not the same as the Bhatts. Bhatts are Brahman by caste while the Bhattras are not.

The way I think of it according to my soch is that Mahadin is Prophet Mohammad. I have always thought that Mahadin really means Maha and Din i.e. one who who created the great(Maha) Din (Islam) which can only be Prophet Mohammad.

Sikh missionaries are communist minded people. Most of them have now become Kala Afghana supporters making them even more naastik than they already are. They have a real hindu phobia which is why these people are such enemies of the Sri Dasam Granth. Anything which Sikhs and Hindus have in common, these communist minded missionaries discard, which is why they reject Dasam Granth as it contains banis like Choubis avtar, krishna avtar, Chandi di vaar etc. At one point of my life, I was also a huge Sikh missionary supporter. I use to love reading their books. But Guru Jee has done much kirpa on me that I now see the Sikh missionaries for what they really are.

The Gita truelly is an amazing work to read. It gives such a deep understanding of the self. It puts everything in context. The Upanishads are also a must read.