chatanga1

what i was getting at was the agony of Kunti's life every day and every time she saw Karan, knowing that she had given him up, to avoid being stigmatized by society.

another opporutunity for the ravan state to claim there are sikh terrorist groups in uk. that prof rom birm uni seems like a right arsehole, claiming that sikh terrorists have taken over temples in uk. as usual the brown nosing british govt will give them support, whilst ignoring the activities of the ravan sena over the last 2 decades.

what has been rejected is the methods that the sikhs chose in 80s although i beleive they were the correct methods at the time. ie the way of the gun, simply becaus eof the way they rebounded on the sikh people. But now i think that the khalistan movement would gain more support if it was allowed to preach it through the ballot box/political stage. This the govt know and they will never allow debate on it. but from people who i have spoken to, they still harbour sentiments towards the movement.

what has been rejected is the methods that the sikhs chose in 80s although i beleive they were the correct methods at the time. ie the way of the gun, simply becaus eof the way they rebounded on the sikh people. But now i think that the khalistan movement would gain more support if it was allowed to preach it through the ballot box/political stage. This the govt know and they will never allow debate on it. but from people who i have spoken to, they still harbour sentiments towards the movement.

this is also down to the ravan state, killing any sikh of any ability in the 80s/90s. I've always thought that the govt planned not just to destroy the khalistan movement but to make sure that the sikhs were not able to doing anything similiar for decades to come.

i dont think all of them are farmers. there are Lubanas, and Aroras etc amongst them. Jagiro was of Lubana community. but it is a more of a club though, not even a good kind like the freemasons, or the chocolatey biskwit type either.

bro, the point i made in linguistics was at the lack of knowledge of persian, and sanskrit amongst Sikh scholars today. the other things you mention is progress in the world, and is not specific to Sikhs ie online dictionaries, libraries. I believe that Udasis have always been part of the panth, from the original Udasi, Guru Nanak Dev Ji, upto those who uphold the true ideals of the samprdaye today. But sadly i dont beleive that the ones who call themselves Udasis today beleive in the mat of Guru Nanak Dev Ji amymore.

from the onset of british raj? no. Well before the brits got anywhere near Satluj the rot had started, in that various misls were fighting with each other, rather than focusing on strenghtening dal panth. There was no brotherhood at the time,just marriages of convenience. And the maya of the jagirs given by Mah. Ranjit SIngh was too tempting for the Udasis to resist.

this isnt just the one you list bro. even the sgpc, akali dal, akal takht are guilty of this. Sometimes i feel most sikhs are guilty of this. Tony, you make some excellent points in your post. Could it not be that the traditional samprdayes not wishing to make any necessary changes in their work opted to leave the panth rather than being forced to leave?

actually bro, i dont think all these traditions were intact.look at the idols and prabandh of gurdwaras pre SS. There wasnt much charity going on. i dont think the sikhs were very progressive at the time of the SS lehar. That is why IMO the lehar had such an effect amongst the Sikhs. Also it is unfair to treat the SgPC wholesale as unscholarly, as in early times of the moevment most of the gianis took their vidya from Taksal. I agree with you now, though that they do act like thickos. But martial, linguistic, musical traditions deffo have taken a setback.

dont be too quick to judge. god knows what she was going thru, when she did this. this is the kalyug repeating of Kunti and her abandoning of Karan. Im sure what she did will haunt her all her life.

this also gave birth to the "tradition" that Hindus brought up their 1st son as a Singh. They only did this to eat well, and then when there was no glory in bringing up 1st sons as part of a fallen empire, they just did the things they have been doing for yugs.

I apologise for that example.

the consensus of Panjab from around 1911 to 1941 show a great increase in the Sikh population, with the Sikhs percentage almost doubling in number from 7 to around 12-13%. This was down to the Singh Sabha movement, and the parchaar they did, especially amongst the lower castes. This may have even increased further had partition not taken place. But anyways although a lot of people say that such and such samprdaye did so much preaching here and there, the SinghSabha lehar did, (especially given the circumstances of the state, and the tensions running through each community,)a tremendous amount of sustained parchaar. also neo bhaji, the nirmalas went away from the panth themselves. They could never be and never were driven out, but they chose to classify themselves as non-sikhs so how can youblame singh sabha for this? what is the point of teaching sanskrit when Gurbani is clearly not written in it? THese kind of activities would make anyone thinktwice about going to Nirmalas to learn about Gurmat.

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Xylotit Jee! You say "so basically... correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems that Balbir Singh is saying that you need a sadh, someone who has knowledge of his own soul, to guide you on this path and in understanding Gurbani." Please listen. Gurdev is singing. One day I think Guru says this. The next day I think Guru says that. But i never come to know the Gur. So I just ask endless questions that go round and round till everybody gets dizzy. the wisdom of Naam is received by re-writing posts again and again. Balbir Singh

good vid.

is it disallowed for msulims, jews andn budhists ?

no, it asks youto sign in to watch, and i dont facebook either, so unable to watch it. is it on youtube?

absolutely not. Not the way you say you want to bring them up.

Shaheediyan bro, where are all the excellent sikhs that the Nirmalas have produced?

If you are accepted by Guru Ji, then you will be accpeted by the comunity. What do you expect the community to do? Hound you out cos of your colour? Bro, the former pardhaan of our Gurdwara has a white son son-in-law, and they bring their kids to the gurdwara. I have never heard anybody say anything bad about them or avoid them or anything. A white guy comes to our gurdawara every now and again with an indian girl, he even wears a turban, although he has haircut. He looks quite good in it actually.

obaidullahs father also converted to islam as well. this obaidullah was a communist and he tried to enlist russian support to fight the british rule in india. The brits refused to let him back into india when they found out what he was trying to so. its amazing how easy it was to muslims to convert hindus to islam. i mean 7000 hindus converted by one guy? crazy. why the sikhs dont this much emphasis on parchaar i dont know.

the apparent dangers still donot dissuade people form tsending thier children abroad. at 24, this woman should have got her daughter married, not be sending her abroad.

gurdwaras in Afghanistan have been targeted on several occasions, and i rememeber reading in the early 90s(during the afghan civil war) about an attack on a sangat which left about 25 dead.

im a little surprised to see no mention of TERENCE AND PHILIP in that commercial about canada.