SURYADEV

Case is even shown on Ch5 News at 5pm today.

Well apparently these days if a guy is 'butch' or 'alpha-male' or even a 'geezer' he cannot be considered a 'tyay bar tyar naam abiyasi gursikh, full of pyar'! It quite so often seems to me that to be a proper sikh guy requires quite a bit of effeminacy.

I'm quite suspect when people say " more research is required". To me it means that the person cannot/will not accept the status quo until this "research " backs the opposing view.

I've often thought about that. I can burn all my ID paperwork, sell everything in my name, close all my accounts, take out massive loans/mortgages.debts. Then hand myself into the POlice or Border agency giving false name/details and where I'm from and Voila! I've got a new ID and they wont/cant deport me anywhere. Think its a good plan?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17183171 The illegal immigrants desperate to escape squalor of Britain By Chris RogersBBC News They came to Britain illegally in search of a better life, but the reality turned out to be far removed from what they dreamed of. The BBC has spoken to illegal immigrants who find themselves living amongst rats and rubbish in makeshift garden sheds and garages. They want to be deported back to India, but many are trapped in a bureaucratic no man's land without any documents. Jagdeesh pulls away a piece of cardboard revealing a tiny hole in a concrete wall. He invites me to climb through, declaring: "This is my home, come in." As I crawl into the derelict garage in west London, the torchlight reveals half the roof is missing, a floor littered with rubbish, and rats scurrying away. The 22-year-old illegal immigrant jumps on to a mattress in the corner. His makeshift bed is protected from the elements by plastic sheeting. Jagdeesh's family paid £10,000 to traffickers who promised a better life and smuggled him from India to Britain with dozens of others in the back of a lorry. Voluntary returns "I was told that life was good here. It's not just me, other boys came for work," he says. "You can see what state we're in, there's no work, no government help." Jagdeesh has cut himself off from his family, saying he is ashamed of his failure to find work and would rather they thought he was dead than knew he was living in filth. "They sold land and took out loans to get me out of India. What can I say to my family back home? The money we've invested is lost," he says. Out of work, penniless and 4,000 miles from home, Jagdeesh has handed himself in for deportation. Voluntary departures from the UK to all countries have risen steadily over the past six years, from 335 in 2005 to 15,537 in 2010, before falling to 12,879 in 2011, Home Office figures show. It is barely dawn as Jagdeesh and hundreds of other illegal immigrants from India descend on a car park outside Southall train station in west London. They stand in silence, shivering in the bitter cold. This car park was once a busy pick-up point for cheap illegal workers before the work slowed down in the economic downturn. It is mid-morning by the time a van swings into the car park. Suddenly dozens of men rush towards the driver's window offering their skills, shouting above each other. "I make a good plumber," shouts one. "I work hard boss, 12 hours for £20," shouts another. Several men scramble for a place in the back of the van, pushing others out of the way, then the van speeds off. For those left behind, there will be no more offers of work that day. Surinder, 33, also from Southall, arrived in the UK more than 10 years ago. There was a time when he made £300 a week working six days as a heating engineer, but he is now living in the poverty he came here to escape. He heads back to the home he shares with several other illegal immigrants - a tiny, poorly constructed building in his landlord's garden. Inside, there are three beds and a cooking area. "We can barely make ends meet. It's been two months and we've only worked four days, what can we do?" he says. He throws his work overalls on to a scruffy sofa as if to show his frustration. "We have to pay the landlords, there are four or five us, and so we club together to pay it." The rent is £800 a month. Landlords appear to be prepared to risk housing illegal immigrants for an inflated price. They have been told not to open the door to anyone in case they are planning or immigration officials, but we obtained access by posing as volunteers offering food and blankets. The immigrants complain of damp, cramped conditions, but being exploited by their own people angers them most. "Our people who are here legally, permanent residents, who've made homes here, they've paid for their houses because of us," Jandeep says angrily. "Their mortgages are paid because they charge a high rent. Everyone who lives here is Punjabi." Row after row of terraced houses in this predominantly Asian area of west London are housing illegal immigrants in back gardens, creating slum-like areas. Local councils estimate there are 10,000 sheds concealed from view across London and the Home Counties, lining networks of alleyways. 'Satellite images' Council planning officers and immigration agencies are using satellite images to document them. But Ealing Council, which is responsible for the area we visited, is calling on the government for greater powers to inspect these buildings. Local councils often have to give 24 hours' notice to landlords and tenants for inspection, which gives them plenty of time to clear evidence. Sheds with beds are the last resort for migrant workers. Surinder plans to head back to India before he ends up on the street, even if he has to pay traffickers to help him. "If I don't go back while I still have some money, it's over for me, then it's drink, drugs and no way home," he says. We found many homeless communities sheltering in blankets and boxes in Southall under a network of motorway and canal bridges. But like many illegal immigrants, they are stuck in a bureaucratic no man's land. Their traffickers instructed them to destroy their identity papers to make deportation difficult. Now they are pleading to be sent back to India, but without their ID the process is slow. Many have slipped into a destructive cycle of alcohol and drug abuse. Jaspal, 21, was jailed for shoplifting and is now back on the streets and back on heroin. "I want to go back, they arrest me and I tell them 'Send me back', but they won't - because I have no passport - even though I spent one year in prison," he says. "I can't sleep outside without drugs and I can't turn to my family for help. They spent thousands sending me here. It will cause too much tension." Then Jaspal climbs under his blanket for one last hit to get him through the night. Their only source of food and clothing comes from a local charity, the Sikh Welfare Awareness Team. "They seem to be growing in number, the situation is getting worse but they have no choice but to live on the streets," says volunteer Randeep Lall. "Their cases have been logged with the UKBA, but the Indian High Commission is dragging its feet. It's disgusting they are being left to live like this. It's a mess." The UK Border Agency admits establishing the identity of illegal immigrants in order to issue them with emergency travel documentation can be complex. A spokesman told the BBC: "The time it takes to obtain these documents varies and we continue to work with the High Commission of India to speed up this process." Buta, who is in his 30s, has been waiting for three years. Each morning he cleans his teeth using a fresh water tap in the local cemetery. Barely sober, he makes his way to Southall train station hoping to get work - he will take any wage to buy his next drink. "I'd rather God took me, then I'd be okay. Nobody listens to me... I have nothing left to live for."

Chatangs you want him to strip off and post his pics?

Nice stuff. Chatangs, you will rarely find any asians with that type of body. different type of dominant muscle fibres. And we asians tend to put on quite a bit of extra fat.

True. thats the power of PR and having good media relations.

If we look at modern pure iron weapons and karas. They rust very easily due to its nature. If we look at historical weapons, not as much. My reasoning is that they are not made of pure iron.

yet many of their members themselves carry steel. Not really sarbloh is it? I've also read that origins of sarbloh is in sankrit words 'sarva loha'. This means 'all metal'; not 'all iron'. cant find it now on internet, maybe some sanskrit scholar can verify? I do believe somewhere in modern history the meaning was changed by sikhs to mean 'iron' instaed of 'metal'. Maybe i'm wrong, someone can correct me.

Verdict on the murder that enthralled the Sikh media in the UK. Gagandip doesn't come out of it smelling of roses either. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2106063/Gangsters-set-TV-executive-left-dead-burning-car-tried-rape-medical-student-honeytrap-killing.html Lured to his death: Female medical student got two thugs to battered and set fire to TV executive she claimed had tried to rape her Mundill Mahil wanted 'justice' against Gagandip Singh after attempted rape She recruited Harvinder Shoker and his friend Darren Peters, who beat and tied up TV executive Pair then left Singh to die in boot of burning car last February By Chris Parsons Last updated at 10:28 PM on 24th February 2012 Honeytrap: Mundill Mahil, 20, lured Gagandip Singh to her university home in Brigthon before he was attacked by two men and left to die Two men have been found guilty of beating a TV executive unconscious and leaving him to die in a burning car in a vicious 'vengeance' attack. Mundill Mahil lured Gagandip Singh to her university house in Brighton, where he was set up by two of her friends as 'justice' for trying to rape her six months previously. While medical student and charity worker Mahil, 20, claimed to police she only lured Singh to her house so he could be given 'a slap and a lecture', he was instead beaten unconscious and driven to his death. Harvinder Shoker and Darren Peters, who were waiting for Singh as he was lured to Brighton, 'played God' by viciously beating him, bundling him into the boot of a car and driving it to Blackheath, south east London. The pair then set the car alight with Singh still in the boot wrapped in Mahil's duvet, leaving him to burn to death. Shoker, 20, was today convicted of murder while Peters was found guilty of manslaughter and Mahil of causing grievous bodily harm. Police today condemned Mahil, 'a student embarking on a career in the caring profession' for 'portraying herself as the victim' when she lured Singh to Brighton knowing Shoker and Peters were going to attack him. Prosecutors said that although Mr Singh 'may have deserved some punishment' for the attempted rape of Mahil, there was a 'grotesque turn of events' when she got Shoker and Peters involved. Mahil had confided in Shoker about the attempted sex attack, and he recruited Peters to help him in the plot against 21-year-old Mr Singh. Mahil insisted that she had no idea that Mr Singh would be hurt, instead believing the two men were going to take him to see an older man called Sonny to be lectured about religion and how to treat women. Mr Singh and Mahil had a brief relationship after meeting on Facebook in 2009. He wooed her with gifts, while she provided him with emotional support - particularly when his father was murdered on a visit to India in September 2009 - and would spend hours chatting with him on the phone and internet, the court heard. However, the pair separated following the sex attack in August of the following year. Killers: Shoker (left), and Darren Peters (right) beat Sigh unconscious before bundling him into a car boot and setting the vehicle alight The attack, described by the defence as an attempted rape, was never reported to the police but Mahil later underwent counselling. In February last year - six months after the sex attack - Mahil asked Singh to come and see her so she could talk to him alone. Gagandip Singh, 21, had become infatuated with Mahil after the pair met online in 2009 The TV executive drove to the south coast in his sister's silver C-class Mercedes, not knowing Shoker and Peters were waiting for him in her bedroom. After hitting him round the head and beating him with a camera tripod, the pair bundled him into the car's boot inside Mahil's duvet and drove towards the capital. They even stopped on the A23 towards London to open the boot and tie Singh up using the power cable from a Sat Nav device. They later arrived in a quiet side street, Angerstein Lane, before pulling over at the side of the road. Aftab Jafferjee QC, prosecuting, said: 'Petrol was poured onto the car, including onto him as he lay either still unconscious or on any view completely helpless inside the boot. 'It is scientifically clear beyond any doubt that he was still alive at that point. 'The car was then set alight with him in the boot and that is how his life was ended.' The two killers later blamed each other for the murder, while Mahil claimed she had only ever intended for Mr Singh to be 'lectured' about his attitude to women and had no idea they would set upon him with such ferocity. She told the court she initially believed he had committed suicide, with her barrister adding that she expected him to be given 'a few slaps' at most. Self-confessed car thief Peters, who is said to have likened the return trip to London to a scene from action film 'The Transporter', claimed Shoker had recruited him only to steal Mr Singh's Mercedes. In his closing speech, prosecutor Aftab Jafferjee QC told jurors: 'Gagandip had his share of faults. There is no doubt about it. He may have deserved some punishment. 'But for a group of youngsters to decide that they are the custodians of Sikh virtue and play God on the subject of religious duty and moral obligation is a grotesque turn of events. 'The reality is this was vengeance for a sexual predator, which was the way they liked to portray the man who died. Everybody gets into this way of believing that this is an evil man who got his just desserts.' Scene of death: Singh was driven to a quiet alley in Blackheath, south east London, where the car he was in was set alight and he was left to die Mahil, from Chatham, Kent, Shoker, from Greenwich, and Peters, from Blackheath, both south east London, will all be sentenced next Wednesday. Judge Paul Worsley said all the defendants would be given long sentences. But he allowed Mahil to remain on conditional bail until Wednesday's sentencing. He told her: 'I regard a long custodial sentence as virtually inevitable.' Mahil had shaken her head and swayed when she was found guilty. Outside court, a statement was read on behalf of Mr Singh's family, including his mother Tajinder and sister Amandip Singh. It read: 'Words are not enough to express the great loss of our son and brother. On a day to day basis there is a gap in our lives and a sense of loneliness. 'Gagandip was always a happy person trying to make us laugh.' They said that this week has been particularly hard because this weekend is the first anniversary of Mr Singh's death. The statement went on: 'For Gagandip's mother life has ground to a halt and will never be the same again.'

Long time no see. Interesting post. cheers could you perhaps open a new post just to write about these warrior monks that you mentioned?

I find that that sarbloh removes my arm hair. Very strange seeing your left forearm hairy as a yeti and your right forearm as bald as a Kojaks head. Much prefer gold these days to showcase by ever increasing wealth. If not that steel will suffice if I want to show humbleness. On a serious note, I dont really follow the pure iron weapons idea. From a fighting/military perspective it just doesn't make sense. Out of necessity, yes use iron, but there are so many other metals that are preferable.

I quite like that idea.... then again maybe thats where the insult 'd1ckhead' has come from!! lol If we look at the pics above , and any of the guys at your local gurdwara, you dont usually see those being used to secure the tora. Plus just look at the size of them? When I firt saw them I did think they were small bells.

http://www.dailymail...nimum-wage.html Volunteer worker at Sikh temple who received £50 a week in donations wins right to be paid minimum wage By Steve Doughty, Social Affairs Correspondent Last updated at 9:13 PM on 20th February 2012 A volunteer worker at a Sikh temple may be entitled to be paid the minimum wage, a court ruled yesterday. The decision means religious organisations, charities and groups which depend on voluntary help are at risk of having to pay a salary to thousands of people they believed were giving their help free. It also marked a further erosion of the autonomy of religious believers. Case: Tejinder Singh, who served as the granthi, or priest, at Bristol Sikh Temple claims he should have been paid minimum wage even though he had agreed to act as a volunteer The ruling on the helper at Bristol’s Sikh temple follows in the wake of key court decisions which downgraded the rights of Christian believers. One said local councillors have no right to say Christian prayers as part of the public agenda of their meetings, and another quashed the appeal of a couple of Christian hoteliers who wanted the right to reserve double rooms for married couples. The case involved Tejinder Singh, who served as the granthi, or priest, at the temple for seven years until 2009. Mr Singh claimed at a tribunal last year that even though he had agreed to act as a volunteer, he should have been paid the minimum wage, which is currently set at £6.08 an hour. He had accepted free accommodation from the temple for himself and his wife, and the temple gave him £50 a week from the donations of worshippers for performing prayers and blessings. Some worshippers would also pay him for his prayers on special occasions, like weddings, at rates suggested by the temple management. He paid no tax or national insurance, and the temple managers said that to treat him as a paid worker would conflict with principles of ‘voluntarism and a traditional interpretation and application of the Sikh scriptures.’ The tribunal last spring said that Mr Singh did not qualify as a worker. But at the Employment Appeal Tribunal Mr Justice Beatson said it had been wrong, and threw the case open by sending it back to the same tribunal to be reconsidered. The judge said: ‘The threshold for a finding that the relationship between a religious institution and its officers is not intended to have legal effect is a high one. ‘Arrangements between a church and its ministers should not lightly be taken as intended to have no legal effect. There is no longer a presumption of no intention to create legal relations between a minister of religion and his or her church or congregation.’ The temple had agreed to accept Mr Singh as a volunteer on the grounds that he was to work without pay and not for gain. His accommodation, it said, was provided to help him carry out his duties, and the £50 was paid out of respect for his position as an office-holder, and not as pay for his work. It said that he regularly went on holiday to India, and was not paid while he was away. But Mr Justice Beaton said the tribunal had made an error and Mr Singh should not have been considered among the temple office-holders who were required to work without pay.

Just dont tell certain people .....

Tagane= isn't that the black thread with tiny silver bells on it that is tied around a baby's waist? I'm sure it sound very much like that word. the last highlighted word CHOOSIA'N = to suck on something, like a lollipop.

At the bottom of an Aad Chand (- the base of the khanda) there are usually a couple of metal bell-like things dangling off. What are they?

Nice to see the token dhari-wala singh

If we think practically then during battle you eat whatever you can get your hands on. You just cannot be fussy or squeamish about it being permitted or not. or whether its been washed. Eat insects, leaves, small animanls/reptiles. It is a survival situation. If you worry about your maryada/dietary needs/favourite flavour of Kendal mint cakes you will get killed by the enemy or starvation.

40 and no grey hair. You must lead a stress-free life!

Joking?! Does that actually happen here? You should have said you were planning on booking an Akhand Path, then they wouldn't turn you or your custom away. Though I've been denied parking by the Ramgharia gurdwara (Birmingham city centre) in their carpark because I wasn't a registered member of the gurdwara. On their part I was taking up space from fee paying customers and they did allow me to park in the community hall opposite for free.

thanks for that

mega lol Just dont get mixing with the drug dealing indo's when you go to k'naada.

Would anyone consider a move to Pb for better opportunities?? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2101679/We-ditched-Maidstone-Mumbai-escape-recession-Britain--rubbing-shoulders-Bollywood-stars.html We ditched Maidstone for Mumbai to escape the recession in Britain - and now we’re rubbing shoulders with Bollywood stars By Sadie Whitelocks Last updated at 8:22 PM on 15th February 2012 Brits have traditionally emigrated to destinations including Australia, Spain and the U.S. But India is quickly becoming a hot location. With employment levels at an all-time low in the UK, an increasing amount of people are moving to East Asia in a bid to capatilise on the booming economy. Brits abroad: Lindsey Gordon, with daughter Polly and husband Mick who now live in Mumbai, India And it seems many have never looked back since making the move. Lindsey and Mick Gordon, both 46, sold their property in Maidstone, Kent and moved to Mumbai with their two children Hugh, 13, and Polly, 11, in 2008. A sharp contrast to their life in Britain, they now live in a five-star, luxury gated compound, have a team of personal staff including a driver and personal trainer, and earn high salaries. Lindsey even claims to rub shoulders with Bollywood stars at the school gates. Describing the Indian way of life, Mick - who runs a market research firm and manages a staff of 500 - said: 'The attitude here is highly optimistic because everyone sees India's time is coming. A view of the luxury gated apartment where the Gordon family live in Mumbai The five bedroom cottage in Maidstone that the Gordons left behind 'Here there's a belief that the future is ours, whereas in Europe it's all about hanging on to what we've got as things aren't going to get better. It's a fundamental difference in attitude.' And it was the difference in attitude which first prompted the Gordons to leave their home country. Speaking about their decision to relocate to the side of the world, Lindsey said: 'We felt the country was going to the dogs and thought we'd get out while we could. 'The country's bankrupt and everyone's depressed. 'India is heading into the stratosphere, it's incredible how quickly it's changing.' Traffic jams are a fantastic mix of new Bentleys, rickshaws, ox-carts, bicycles loaded with a thousand eggs, cows and sometimes even an elephant... Some estimates now suggest up to 40 per cent of the white collar foreign workforce entering India each day comes from the UK. Ameet Nivsarkar, vice-president of global trade and development at India's IT and software trade body NASSCOM, expects the trend to continue for at least the next two decades. 'It is a basic rule that people move to places where there is opportunity and with the Asian markets growing big, both in terms of value and volume, it is attracting people from far and wide,' he said. 'I would say there has been a rapid increase in the number of Britons coming and settling in India because it is easier for them to adapt in this country. 'Owing to the historical and cultural connection, a lot of the things are common in both countries and hence it's not too difficult for them to settle down here.' However it has taken time for the Gordons to settle into their new life. Lindsey admits at being shocked when she first arrived in Mumbai, describing the city as a mass of contradictions - with the super-wealthy and super-poor living side by side. Mr Gordon now runs a market research firm in Mumbai and manages a staff of 500 'You can walk past a dog eating a dead rat, or even a rat eating a dead dog, and on the other side of the street you can admire manicured lawns, hot pink bougainvillea and swaying palms. 'The filthy rich and the filthy poor live cheek by jowl, and traffic jams are a fantastic mix of new Bentleys, rickshaws, ox-carts, bicycles loaded with a thousand eggs, cows and sometimes even an elephant.' She was also shocked to discover that Mumbai had turned into one of the most expensive cities in the world. The family had to settle for for a four bed, open plan, ninth floor apartment, cost costing around £3,200 a month - three times more than they get for their 18th Century, five bed cottage in Kent. Dressing the part: Polly Gordon wearing traditional Indian costume 'I couldn't believe it when the guy from the relocation company told us that property prices in Mumbai were second only to those in Monte Carlo,' said Lindsey. Their children also found it difficult to adjust. Although he made friends in India, 13-year-old Hugh started to miss home and asked to enrol at a boarding school, which he started in Eastbourne last September. Holly also misses family and friends in the UK but is enjoying success as a child model for an Indian clothing company and can now speak basic Hindi. It was four years ago that the Gordons decided to move to India, but experts predict that an increasing amount of Brits will make the same choice. A survey last year for exchange brokers Currency UK found three in four Britons wanted to move abroad, with the most popular reason being the poor state of the UK economy. Last week it was revealed unemployment among those aged 16 to 24 has ballooned to its highest level on record, topping one million for the first time. Overall unemployment is currently 2.62million, its highest since 1994. The number of employees has dropped by 305,000 between July and September, the largest fall since 1992. Meanwhile India's economy is expected to surge ahead nearly seven percent this year. Mick added: 'I regularly equate India with the end of the 1930s in America. 'There's an incredible diversity of wealth - the Ambanis of Mumbai today come across a little like the Carnegies of New York. 'They're incredibly rich men and incredibly powerful and they're part of an unstoppable rise.' A spokesman for the British High Commission in Delhi said the government was committed to helping businesses wanting to expand into India: 'From the Prime Minister down, all British ministers consistently encourage British businesses and entrepreneurs to explore the huge commercial potential that exists in India and beyond.' Comments (0)