Mithar

Well who ever they are, they are obviously demonic souls to be able to kill babies. I have no doubt that people who carry out this murder of the unborn babies will end up in hell. While on the theories of reincarnation, could it be that maybe the people that are now aborting the babies are people who are taking revenge from people who themselves had aborted them in a previous life? and the people who are currently aborting will be aborted in their future lifetime by the same babies they are currently aborting? could this be a possibility?

Surprisingly such fusion of music sounds remarkably nice. European classical music goes so well with modern music. I wouldn't be surprised if Raag would also do well with modern music.

Ideally a Sikh should have the Shabad KanTh rather than using a pothi to do kirtan from.

He should do Paath for a good natured, pious, traditional, loving wife. He should also let his perents find him a wife who has all the qualities of a good wife rather than finding one by himself. As you age, the qualities you find attractive in a woman also changes.

This murder must stop. I swear if I ever see a doctor who does sex determination in India, I will give him a slap over the face after which he would recieve a severe beating. That's the only way these pigs will learn.

When Padched first started, there were many mistakes within the Bir. The change in Manglacharan is a result of printing. There were no such mistakes in Padched or Manglacharan when Birs were Lariwar and hand written. Perhaps we should go back to our roots of hand writing Lariwar sroops. This is an extinct tradition within the Panth. Anyone with really clean writing should try to write a Bir in his/her lifetime.

I agree with Ragmala. Hukamji, Shardha and our tradition should be promoted if it's not hurting anyone.

I wish organisations which are pro Dasam Granth should hold Dasam granth study circles, similar to how Christians hold bible study sessions. It will spread awareness about Dasam Granth. Sant Sipahi online website has some excellent articles about Dasam Bani which should be read by all Sikhs here. Not just read but also studied. If we can read a least 1 article a week, within a year you can gain enough knowledge to defend Dasam Granth against all Anti Dasam Bani people. In fact, if you have enough knowledge, you can probably even convince them into beleiving in Dasam Granth.

VADHAIYAN!!!!

What does sluttish mean? and yes, I agree with Amardeep. This is a very beautiful translation. God bless Bindra Jee for this.

So maybe descend and incarnation are BOTH wrong terms to use or should I say both do not fully explain Avtar. In Gurbani and in classical Punjabi literature Avtar usually means to describe birth, incarnation, manifestation, descend. But it probably has a wider meaning than that.

I think that it is all false propaganda. In my own theory which I don't have facts for, but I think that this theory is mainly the result of ISI influence in Sikh affairs. Sikhs have their own genuine grievances with India and the ISI took advantage of this by trying to throw in anti Hindu propaganda and the usual suspects in this “drive-by-smear-campaign” were the Brahmins. We try to hide our own failures and short-sightedness by simply blaming every little thing on the scapegoat who in this case happens to be the Brahmins. Yes we do have some conflicts with the North Indian Hindu majority which are political in nature since we were largely lied to by Nehru and Gandhi before partition. But sadly our pseudo intellectuals (most of whom have no religious training and absolutely no rehet) leave no stone unturned to blame everything on Hindus, RSS, Brahmins without checking themselves out first. Sant Jarnail Singh Jee was different than all Sikh leaders in this regard. Despite Khalistani propaganda which tries to falsely portray him as being anti Hindu, he was a true Gursikh who saw everything in the correct context to the situation instead of foolish Sikh leaders of today like Mann and Bittu who are basically Jattboots (honestly they are!!). Today in the Panth we don’t have a single Sikh leader who has any of the qualities of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala. Sant Jee was a warrior, giani, leader, humble, wise, handsome, rehetvan all in one. Do any of the current Sikh leaders have this in them? NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM!!! My conscience doesn’t allow me to regard any of them as being my leader. Compare our current Panthic leadership of Mann, Bittu and the likes of them to current Kashmiri leaders. Whereas our leaders are basically (politically and intellectually) uninformed buffoons, the Kashmiri leaders are wise. Without firing a single shot they have already revived a separatist movement in Kashmir, shouts and chants of “AZADI” can be heard all over in Kashmir valley! Where as our current Sikh leadership bicker and admin cut about RSS all the time while our youth cut their hair, girls marry clean shaven boys, the Kashmiri leaders in the last few years promoted Islam and made the Kashmiri youth religiuosly, politically aware. That is wise leadership. In colleges/universities of kashmir, the girls who once wore pants now always have their heads covered and wear suits as traditional girls, in Punjab the once Punjabi suit wearing Sikh girls are overwhelmingly wearing pants and other western clothing. Our Panthic leadership in all honesty are I D I O T S!! No other word describes them more perfectly. I got no respect for them politically or religiously.

Let’s see what Avtar means in light of Gurbani. In Sukhmani Sahib’s 13th Ashtpadi, Guru Jee says: ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ ਸੰਤ ਸਰਨਿ ਜੋ ਜਨੁ ਪਰੈ ਸੋ ਜਨੁ ਉਧਰਨਹਾਰ ॥ ਸੰਤ ਕੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਅਵਤਾਰ ॥੧॥ {279} “Those who come to charan of Sants are liberated from the dukhs of life and death. But those who do Nindya of Sants, take birth over and over again” All teekakars have translated Avtar here as “Janam”.

ringdingding, I have read all the Khalistani propaganda from the 80s and 90s which were full of how Hindus destroyed Buddhism and try to link that as being identical to the genuine Sikh struggle that went on since 1978. In Sikh political literature this whole Buddhism vs Hinduism connection started after 1984, probably during the early 90s (that’s when I first heard this connection). Since then Sikh intellectuals have just milked this theory to the fullest without even checking the validity of this theory. This whole story reeks of half truths and exaggerated facts. I really don’t buy this whole conspiracy theory that Brahmins plotted since day one to over throw and destroy Buddhism. Fact remains that most of Buddha’s early disciples and companions themselves were Brahmins, yet our pseudo historians conveniently over look this fact. Our historians like Sangat Singh even go to the extent of trying to claim that a saintly man like Shankara Acharya himself incited and led people to kill Buddhists all over India, when in fact Shankar Acharya won over Buddhism in India using his intellect and debating skills. The so called theory of violent extermination of the Buddhists in India is a MYTH!!!!! (Yes!! It never happened!!). Buddhism itself was on the decline, and Advait Vedanta ultimately defeated it intellectually all over India. Shankar Acharya in his short yet eventful life travelled all over India holding debates with Buddhists. Yet our modern revisionism Khalistani propagandists(most of whom are Kala Afghanists) would have us believe that there was some conspiracy theory that ultimately defeated Buddhism through the use of violence even though there is absolutely no historical evidence of this theory. The problem is, Khalistani propagandists have borrowed heavily from Dalit propagandists. If you read Dalit propaganda, it is 99% identical to Khalistani propaganda. In other words, we have simply regurgitated Dalit propaganda. Dalits also try to portray the Buddhist movement as somehow being predominately Dalit when in fact most of the early Buddhists during and after the Buddha overwhelmingly belonged to the so called high castes, particularly the Brahmins. Sikhi does have a strugle with Hinduism just as all religions struggle against one another. Currently there is a decisive struggle going on in this world between Islam and the west both violently and on the intellectual level, only time will tell who will win this intellectual struggle. Similarly Sikhi being a new religion having most of it’s converts from Hinduism is bound to have a struggle with the Brahmins. Same way Hinduism through Advait Vedanta also had this intellectual struggle going on between them and the Buddhists in India(at the time India was a Buddhist country). It had nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

I think the reason why this guy would insist on using the term "menifesting" instead of incarnation is because he wanted to reconcile Sikhi and Hinduism to Shia Islam which does not believe in incarnation, that is why he would insist on using menifestation.

Bahadur says that Langar is copied from Shais or Sufis, but i know of many if any Shia or Sufi mosques that has a 24hr langar like Sikh Gurdwaras, in the west or in India. This is just one of his many bogus theories Bahadur comes up with. Another thing is, Sikhs do NOT copy their humanitarian traditions from the Catholics. As politically incorrect as it may sound, but where as the Catholics will try to convert the people they are helping, Sikhs do NOT expect conversion nor do they try to convert people they help. Sikhs help people WITHOUT any ulterior motive. I don't see how Sikhs or Catholics are anywhere near the same or similar. I know that many Sikh brothers here do not like saying anything politically incorrect about the Catholics, but it's the TRUTH. Do you actually think the Catholics or Christians would be doing this seva if they were not allowed to try to convert people to Christianity? Look at it all over the world, Christians(including Catholics) do humanitarian work with an ulterior motive. You may accept the truth or decide to cover your eyes mouth and ears but the truth is the truth about the Catholics. I'm not criticising the Catholics. I praise them for their work even if it means they are converting people in return. At least they are doing some work for humanity in this cold dark world.

Unbreakable bro did you listen to the audio clips on that link? What Prof Darshan Singh Jee has said with his own words in that link is as clear as day. He does not support Dasam Banis that we read in Nitnem. This is pure Kala Afghanism.

I think they are showing a idealic romantic rural Punjab of 50 years ago. In the video they even show the Jatt doing Kethi with an oxen and also wearing a Turlaywali Pagh, which is how people were 50 years ago. Back then they didn’t have Biharis doing Kethi for Jatts. Farming in those days was real tough physical work and also required the Jatt to eat a lot of healthy food for energy, which is why Jatts back then were also pretty tough and strong. But now with the Jatts making the Biharis doing all the work, the Jatts having the same amount of food, but no physical work has resulted with the Jatts being overweight. Plus the lack of work has also resulted in Jatts having too much time on their hands which has resulted in a drug problem amongst the youth. In Punjab today there is now a problem with shortage of Biharis. Now Biharis want to go to other states such as Maharasthra and Gujarat to work in industrial companies isntead of doing labour for Punjabi Jatts. I think that the Jatts will have to start working again, but unfortunately the physically hard working Jatt in Punjab seems like a thing of the past for now.

Silence bro, I think that the problem with our panth is that we no longer have any respect for Gyan and authentic Gyanis. Ideally a Sikh should do Bhagti, have Rehet and Gyan. Today, we have neither of these. We only have men who wear chollay but if you get to know them closely most do not have Amritvela, don't even have their Nitnem Kanth and have only superficial knowledge of Gurmat. Look at the past Sants of Taksal. They and their students not only wore Chollay, but they also had ALOT of Gyan about Dharm, they were strict in Amritvela and Rehet, plus they all always had atleast the Panj Granthi memorised. How many Sikhs today have all these qualities? Very very few. You could probably count them on your finger tips. We need and should respect Gyanis in our Panth because they have preserved our old knowledge. We shouldn't just ridicule them as being "Pandit". Also the term Pandit should be respected. A Pandit is someone with knowledge. Many Sikhs of the past who had knowledge of Sanskrit were also called Pandit.

I’m in total agreement. I don’t like preachers of other faiths trying to preach to me either. Only those with great Karmas have the good fortune of becoming servants of the house of Satguru Nanak Dev Jee. When Sant Attar Singh jee MastuanayWalay would do Prachar village to village doing kirtan only those lucky souls whose good Karma had blossomed connected to Gurmat the rest of the people just missed out on it. If a person does not have the Good fortune or Karma of connecting to the house of Guru Nanak Dev, then no matter how much you do prachar to them they will not follow Gurmat.

Unbreakable if you think that the Bhagti movement is a reaction to the Muslims converting the indigenous peoples of India, then you are sadly mistaken. This is the reason that you may find given in Hindutva websites which would have us believe that these great Saints were a nationalistic bunch who opposed anything that was not Indian. The Bhagti movement Saints were God conscious Saints, that included Guru Nanak Dev Jee, the Bhagats whose Bani is in SGGSJ and even other Bhagats like Chaitanya Mahaprabhu of Gaudiya Mat, Mira Bai and even Sufi Saints. Of course only Guru Nanak Dev Jee for us is Satguru. You need to read the individual stories of the Bhagats to realise how and why they did Prachar and you yourself will come to the conclusion that these Saints were full of compassion for the suffering of the people, they certainly did not preach because they opposed the Muslims. INFACT many times Muslims of Afghan and Mughal origin were the greatest Shardhaloos of these Bhagti movement Saints. Guru Tegh Bahadur Jee did not give his life for the Pandits because they were Hindus. Guru Jee would have done that regardless of which faith they belonged to, in fact they would have done it even if Muslims had taken asylum of Guru Jee. When did I say Sikhi is a missionary faith? Sikhi is NOT a missionary faith in the sense that Abrahamic religions are. We are a faith following the traditions of the Bhagti movement, in the traditions of the 10 Gurus, the Bhagats.

Bahadur, all over India, Christian missionaries ONLY help people because they expect that the people they are helping will be "saved". They always have an ulterior motive behind their helping, which I'm not criticising. At least they are helping even if it is at the cost of their souls belonging to Christ. When the Tsunami happaned in Thailand, the government of Thailand invited organisations from all over the world to help the Thai people. Many Christian missionary groups also went there and do you know the result of what happened? for the first time in history of Thailand there are now many Churches where there were no churches in Thailand. They will only help if they see a chance of converting people. Do you think they will help people on the condition of not preaching and converting people? I highly doubt it! I remember during the last earth quake that happened in Gujarat. Many Sikh organisations sent food, tents, free medical care, clothing, set up langars for the survivors and expected NOTHING in return. Not one Gujarati during that time is known to have converted to Sikhi because Sikhs help people, they see the presence of Vaheguru in them, they are helping because THAT is the Sikh thing to do NOT because they are trying to save their souls from "eternal" damnation.

But surely there was a class of people that was below the poverty line. All nations have this class, even the richest nation like the US which is probably the richest in history has people below the poverty line. During the Raj of Mahraja Ranjit Singh Jee we all know that the Akali Nihangs were a state within a state. They were the purest and most puratanical of the Khalsa. They also controlled the Darbar Sahib, their Jathadar, Akali Phula Singh was also the Jathadar of the Akal Takht and Maharaja Ranjit Singh respected that. If anyone could actually tell off Maharaja Ranjit Singh it was the Akalis. The Akalis were not materialistic, and were known to give to the poor what ever money they recieved and even they did not dispute Gold being put on Darbar Sahib.

Was Maharaja Ranjit Singh Jee and other Sikh Sardars of the time wrong for puting Gold on Darbar Sahib? I'm sure there were poor people in Punjab back than as well. if we are going with the approach that we should ONLY spend money on Gurdwaras if poverty is eradicated, then sorry to say we might have to literally wait thousands of years for this to happen.

How is that a Christian approach? A Christian approach is that they will ONLY help if they have a chance of converting you to Christianity. But a Sikh would help anyone regardless of faith, caste or race, and I don't see anything wrong in also introducing them to Gurmat. We are not like the Jews who think that they cannot and should not introduce anyone to their faith. When the Buddha got enlightened he could have lived the rest of his life under the Boddhi tree and meditated until the time of his death, but he didn't because he had compassion in his heart for the world and seeing the suffering of the world he decided to introduce people to the way of the Buddha. This form of compassion is a very Indian tradition and the saints of the Bhagti movement also understood this when they began introducing people to Bhagti because a true Bhagat realises that a world without Bhagti/Bandagee is a world full of suffering. Even a rich man with all the money in the world in suffering if he is not doing Bhajjan Bandagee of Vaheguru. Guru Nanak Dev Jee said "Nanak Dukhiya Sab Sansaar". It SOULD NOT be confused with the western Christian missionary preaching.