BhagatSingh

DSG 1. Dasam Granth is a disrespect to the Guru. This is not an argument on its own. 2. Dasam Granth has mistakes. What mistakes? 3. Parts of Dasam granth are translations of other writings. So what? 4. Bachittar Natak, the composition within Dasam Granth, mentions "Bachittar Natak Granth" Yeah it's certainly possible that Bachittar Natak was a different book. Certainly the narative behind Dasam Granth is that there were several volumes of work prepared by Guru Gobind Singh ji (either written by himself or narrated to a scribe or narrated to a sangat and later written), some of which were lost others that were recovered by Bhai Mani Singh were compiled into one book. 5. Bachittar natak does not mention "Dasam Granth" And for the above reason you would not see "Dasam Granth" in any of the writings. And you don't see "Guru Granth" or "Adi Granth" mentioned anywhere in Adi Guru Granth Sahib. 6. Fails on a test of authenticity. Let's see the results of this test. And what are the results when the same test was given to Guru Granth Sahib? 7. Bachittar Natak is a small part of Dasam Granth I don't think anyone disputes that lol. 8. Charitropakhyan is 1/3 of Dasam Granth and contains stories you don't like. Let's see your translations of these stories 8-14. 15. Dasam Granth is being given the same status as Guru Granth Sahib. To each their own? 16. Author says that "if there are errors correct them" So what?

Like who??? Dally Who doesn't like Cap? My personal favourite is Cyclops.

DSG Why not make a list of all points that the article makes and we can all discuss the points one by one.

Taran, while you are correct to say that it's the Prem that matters ultimately, that shabad has been translated incorrectly. The English translation is very misleading. If you read the gurmukhi, there is no mention of "son of Dashrath" or any different kind of Ram. If you read the rest of Kabir bani you see he never mentions any difference between the two and uses both to refer to the same thing. ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥ Kabīr rām kahan mėh bẖeḏ hai ṯā mėh ek bicẖār. Kabir says there is a difference in how one says "Ram", let me share one thought. ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥ So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190|| All (saints) say "Ram" and so do the ka▫uṯakhār, those who perform miracles or entertain. (i.e. the saints chant Ram because they have Prem for Ram. The kautakhar chant Ram to obtain ridhi sidhi, power to perform miracles, which they will show off. The latter have Prem for ridhi sidhi not Ram.) ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥ Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek. Kabir says do say "Ram" but in saying it recognize this difference/ this thought (bibek). ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥ Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā ek samānā ek. ||191|| That one merged in the many, and one merged in the One. (That those who were after the power to perform miracles merged with those powers, meaning they never achieved mukti. But those (saints) who were after Ram merged with Him, the One.) They are both doing Bhagati but their intentions are worlds apart, this is what Kabir is talking about in this shabad. The bibek you need to have to do Bhagati matters as it ultimately determines what result you get.

Thanks for confirming Jaikaara. This misinformation is not at all surprising to me.

This seems to be too rare to be the result of dodgy medicine or mal practice. If those factors were significant, we'd see a greater frequency of deaths following injections. But we don't see that.

Awesome response User. I hope to see more of you on the forum.

That doesn't sound right, sounds completely made up. And the only source is Panthic.org... wtf? I tried looking for other sources of this news. None whatsoever.

We drink these. Ingredients: Milk, Vitamin D3

OK we will leave it there.

Ultimately, one has to be honest despite what they are told.

What's that?

What you said above.

Yeah I don't know about that dude. I have to say that their beards were not long enough for this battle. If their beards were long perhaps if they touched the ground then howitzers couldn't have hurt them them, think about it more carefully. In all seriousness, what is the source of this information?

What are you talking about?

Dally That is hard to answer at this point. My focus has usually been GGS so it would be much easier for me to talk about Sri Hari.

Essentially what we are asking is who did he worship more? Because he mentions both in the above mentioned verses. So to answer this we'd have to look at the pattern in all of his writings related to Sri Kaal and Sri Kali.

Haha awesome!

1. Except that ਕਾਲਿਕਾ is one word referring to Devi Kali (also Chandi, Durga, Bhagvati). ਕਾਲਿਕਾ also appears later in DG in Chandi Charittar, Chandi di Vaar, etc, check it out. And of course, this bani eulogizes Chandi Devi, it's called Chandi di Vaar, "An Eulogy of Chandi". Lol I don't have a problem with that, do you? 2. ਹਮਾਰੀ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਧਾਰੀ ਗੁਰਿ ਨਿਮਖ ਨ ਮਨ ਤੇ ਟਾਰੀ ਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Guru Arjan Dev is talking about ਧਾਰੀ (small stream; feminine, singular) of amrit. He says "My beloved stream of amrit, which the guru never denied from me, even for an instant." (ਧਾਰੀ is a small stream like if you poke a hole in a bag full of water, what comes out is a ਧਾਰੀ)

Dally What would be the tradional conception of Mahakaal? And how does this compare to Mahakaal in Dasam Granth?

That's what it means, Sarab Kaal is my Father. Devi Kalika is my Mother. "hamara (masculine) should be hamari (feminine)" argument does not apply, since it is hamara because it rhymes better. Look at the rest of the stanza, it follows the rhyming very strictly. Also, this verse reminds me of: ਤਹ ਹਮ ਅਧਿਕ ਤਪਸਿਆ ਸਾਧੀ ॥ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਅਰਾਧੀ ॥੨॥ There I did a lot of Tapasya (intense meditation) of Mahakaal and Kalika. Notice that it says Araadhee (feminine, singular), not Aradhey, which would be plural and more appropriate.

Lol I put regular haldi from bajar in a solution of Vinegar (H+ ions) and Salt (Cl- ions). It didn't turn pink.

Men-at-arms says that "Although they would not submit to military discipline or training, and insisted on pursuing traditional Sikh tactics rather than the new-fangled European system introduced by Ranjit Singh, the Akalis' extreme bravery rendered them ideal for employment in desperate enterprises, and their courage was pivotal in the Sikh victories at Multan in 1818 and Naushehra in 1823. However, such employment had considerably reduced their numbers by the 1830s, which was doubtless Ranjit's underlying intention - since they were his most unruly subjects, observed one British officer, he 'endeavoured to use them up as fast as possible'. Their numbers were further diminished during the fighting which followed Sher Singh's death in 1843; they suffered additional heavy loses in the First Sikh War; notably at Sobrain (10 February 1846), after which little more was heard from them." Quite tragic.

Pretty much. I don't eat those food. No coke, pepsi, gums, candy, juice bottles, packaged yogurt, etc for me. We make juice and dhahi at home. ... and homemade coke too. https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/02/20/2013-03835/flavored-milk-petition-to-amend-the-standard-of-identity-for-milk-and-17-additional-dairy-products Apparently, milk companies started a petition because they want to add such things to milk and not label them as "low calorie", and they want FDA to allow that. Therefore, while the milk standard of identity in § 131.110 only provides for the use of “nutritive sweetener” in an optional characterizing flavor, milk may contain a characterizing flavor that is sweetened with a non-nutritive sweetener if the food's label bears a nutrient content claim (e.g., “reduced calorie”) and the non-nutritive sweetener is used to add sweetness to the product so that it is not inferior in its sweetness property compared to its standardized counterpart. However, IDFA and NMPF argue that nutrient content claims such as “reduced calorie” are not attractive to children, and maintain that consumers can more easily identify the overall nutritional value of milk products that are flavored with non-nutritive sweeteners if the labels do not include such claims.

The Ganesha Experience Your link takes us back to this forum. What was the point of that? Jaikaara What's up. ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ॥ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ॥੪੩੪॥ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਰਖਵਾਰ ਹਮਾਰੋ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਲੋਹ ਮੈਂ ਕਿੰਕਰ ਥਾਰੋ ॥ ਅਪਨਾ ਜਾਨ ਕਰੋ ਰਖਵਾਰ ॥ ਬਾਹਿ ਗਹੇ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥੪੩੫॥ With due respect, it depends on your tradition. Those who worship Ganesh, consider Him Parmatama Akal Purakh, and everyone else as a lesser entity. Similarly, those who worship Mahakaal, consider Him Parmatma Akal Purakh, and everyone else as a lesser entity. And so on. It's funny how that works.