BhagatSingh

Indeed. 🙂
Any examples? Maybe it is mentioned but not in english translation or something.
This reminds me of Shin Zen Young, who talks about this type of meditation a lot.
He says you can apply this "identify and clarify" technique to many stimulus, like sights and feelings as well as sound frequencies.
You simply try to go in there and break the experience down into smaller mangeable chunks that you can clarify those chunks via your attention (like how Gheo is made by clarifying butter thorugh heat).
Your Consciousness acts like heat that clarifies your experience and turns it into gheo.
 
A worldly example -  let's say you are angry.
You look at the components of the anger, you identify the feelings in your body, the inner dialogue and frustration/exhaustion components.
Where is the anger located in your body? Feel it there.
Notice your blood coursing through the veins, the energy of the anger present in the body.
What other feelings arise with it? Take note of them individually.
Is there frustration? What is the quality of that?
is there jealousy? What is the quality of that?
It is a very powerful to meditate on anger in this way, to purify it into Pure Energy.
Bhakti / Shakti
 
1. Pay attention.
2. Break things down into their fundamental components.
3. Notice the qualities of those components.
4. Refine those qualities by Clarifying them with your Attention.
5. Profit
 
For those who want to know more about this technique or looking for a scientific approach to meditation, I recommend checking out Shin Zen Young's youtube channel called - ExpandContract.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNetIhxFinw
 
It is quite powerful and Guru Nanak Dev ji did make it quite easy.
Those who start earning spiritual wealth, once they get over the initial hurdle, they earn more and more with the inspiration that is available in Gurbani, quite easily.
What do you mean by this?

I am not sure if you are working closely with @Lucky bhaji's methodology.
If you are then that's good, you should probably go with it.
 
But I'll share my thoughts on this, in case it helps you or anyone else reading -
 
What is your goal with meditation?
What are you trying to accomplish in the long run?
What do you want out of it now? Tomorrow? Next week? Next year? Next 5 years?
Think about this seriously.
Because it is important to have a goal with things that you want to pursue seriously.
 
If your goal is to try to increase the volume of these sounds, the Shabad sounds, to the point where you can hear them above the volume of Running Water, then put your attention on the sounds as much as possible.
Is that what you want to do? Because that is something you can certainly do.
I knew a client who could make the Shabad sound really loud, with such high energy.
He called it the inner Om.
He said he could make it sound louder than the loudest concert.
He had reached really high energy states.
I have also done meditations with the goal of making these louder by putting my attention in them and amping their volume up.
That is something you can meditate on and with.
 
Now... there is a difference between these Shabad sounds, and regular sounds, such as that of Running Water, as @Lucky points out in above post.

When you meditate, you pull back from the sounds of the world and then you head these inner sounds.
When you stop the monologue running in the mind, then you hear these inner sounds.
 
But ultimately even these Shabad sounds, is also an Experience that Consciousness (Atma/Parmatma) is having, just like your other experience of Running Water sounds or the experience of internal monologue.
    These Shabad sounds can be called Anhad Shabad because they are Anhad from the perspective of the World. They are An-Had, Un-Struck, they don't have a source in the world.
But they are Had, struck, from the perspective of Consciousness.
From Absolute Consciousness perspective, they are struck by Absolute Consciousness.
They are coming from Consciousness, just like any other sound from the world.
So from the perspective from Consciousness, these are not utlimately Anhad.
That's why I say that ultimately even these Shabad sounds, is also an Experience that Consciousness is having.
Ultimately Consciousness is Anhad because there is nothing prior to it, nothing strikes to create Consciousness.


So how do you go from these Shabad sounds to Consciousness (Atma/Parmatma)?
How do you listen to the Anhad Shabad that is behind the Anhad Shabad?
What I would do in this situation is to try to keep my focus on the space in which the Shabad sounds are arising.
Think who is listening to Anhad Shabad, and pay attention to that One, who is the space in which you experience the unstruck sounds.

and
@HisServant
Everything you experience is ultimately experience.
And experience will always have some roop, rekha, rang and qualities.
It will always be composed of lights and sounds, forms and shape
So of course what you see is some kind of form.
 
But the one who sees, the one who experiences, himself has no roop, rekha, rang, and no qualities.
This is because  all roops, rekhas, rangs and qualities arise in the one who experiences.
 
If you are specifically trying to shut off all senses, which is a type of meditation, then don't read further. 
If not, then try to pull back from lights and sounds, forms and shapes, and simply become aware of all of it, as a whole.
Just sit back and watch the experience as a whole, and pull back into the seat of the one who experiences that experience.
Notice the difference between the objects of your experience (the lights and sounds, forms and shapes, etc) and the space around them (the space in which those objects exist).
Try to become more and more aware of that space.

It is important to follow the 3 pillars of Sikhism to keep your heart in the right place.
The three pillars are -
1. Naam Japna - meditation
2. Vand Chhakna - being generous and kind - sharing things, knowledge, love, wisdom etc that you have/feel
3. Sachi Kirt Karni - Truthful actions - speaking Truth, acting according to the Truth
If any of these pillars are missing you will screw up your nervous system, which will make you lost.
Your body-car will become rusted, the engine will screw up and the gps will go out of whack. Your body-computer will constantly fill up with ads and viruses, when you go to load one program another one will open.

You will meditate and wonder why isn't it bringing any results.
It's not bringing results because the house has been built completely wrong. The roof is collapsing and the walls the breaking down.
It body-building must be supported by all 3 pillars.
 
 
Do you feel "disoriented and imbalanced" when that happens? Is that what you mean by "inside of my head starts spinning"?
 

^
All emotions become transformed into higher levels, more purified levels.
I have noticed this.
The way to do it is to feel that emotion in the presence of God.
So first work on feeling the presence of God around you and then whenever you feel that emotion coming, then bring the presence of God there and feel that emotion as clearly and purely as possible.
You may notice after a while of doing this that that emotion has started transforming.
It's quality is changing. It's becoming a higher quality emotion.

Yes it happens. This is because emotions come from within.
People can choose to be happy. But they are too attached to negative emotions.

Haha!
The key is to set a goal and focus on it without distraction.

If you set a goal that today I will meditate on the mantra (auditory stimulus), then you ignore all other distractions and focus on the mantra. if you see eyes, you ignore them and focus on the mantra.

If you set a goal that today I will meditate on the eyes (visual stimulus), then you ignore all other distractions and focus on the eyes. If you get uncomfortable or questions or other thoughts, where you find yourself wondering "why", then you ignore all those thoughts and focus on watching the eyes.

Step 1 Set a Goal for yourself
Step 2 Follow through with it

When you are doing any process, your aim is to become concentrated. Not concentrated in a tight way, but in a relaxed way. That is why I said that when you are watching the eyes, you have to fully relax.

Whatever you are doing, chanting mantra or watching eyes, just imagine you are doing it with God, and you will slowly relax into God's lap.

Yea definitely. That correlation exists.
You are right they don't. Scientists have been holding back science themselves. When they say science, they mean materialistic science. When I say scientists, I mean materialistic scientists. There are plenty of others, who are looking at spiritual phenomenon via scientific methods.
In our culture Yog is a science. The hypothesis is "yog chit vrti nirodh, tda drisht swaroopev sthanam" that through reducing distraction we can merge with our mool swaroop, and gain insights into reality. The experiment is to meditate and draw your conclusions via personal experimentation.
Here's a lecture I saw a while ago, that I thought was an interesting enough lecture to be less likely to induce sleep. :P
 
 

Sofa is not a good place to meditate lying down.
You also have to hold that same pose throughout so that there is a level of alertness. My sleeping pose is different than the corpse pose. So while I maintain the corpse pose I remain awake. When I feel I have done enough meditation, or when I feel tired but relaxed, I'll switch the pose and fall asleep.
This is because in order to maintain the pose, it does some effort on your part. That little bit I think is enough to keep you awake.
But it's no where near as much effort as sitting straight up. You get the same benefits of Sukh asan but without expending so much energy maintain sukh asan.
Does the above work differently for your body?
The way I can tell is how tired I am in the meditation. If I am very tired in the meditation then the dominant factor is tiredness and if my meditation is going well, then the dominant factor is tranquility.
There is always going to be tiredness. I should say first that much of our tiredness can be eliminated via meditation but there is base level tiredness that is the limitation of the body. So if you are thinking about eliminating tiredness completely. Then you setting yourself up for trouble or a very difficult goal, depending on your physical nature.
"My problem is that I like to meditate at the end of the day"
I wouldn't call this a problem at all. Because in order to have simran going on during the amrit vela and it will happen at amrit vela even while you sleep, or throughout the night and dreams even, you need to be meditating at the end of the day.
I would say that meditating at the end of the day, is more important than meditating during amrit vela. It is important for many reasons.
Because after the end of the day, you go straight to sleep. And during sleep, you have dreams, and during those dreams there is much potential for learning, in ways you will have never thought before. If you condition your mind to meditate during sleep, then it's a great boon.
Because when you sleep, you also go into deep sleep, and deep sleep is the closest thing to a samadhi. Deep sleep is basically a samadhi sans awareness, so now if you bring awareness into sleep, you can access states of samadhi without much effort, though at random times outside of your initial control.
Combine the above two, and you can transition from a dream into a samadhi, because in your dreams, you are not held back by bodily limitations.
 
One of the ways Patanjali says that our mind wanders is, by sleep.
वृत्तयः पञ्चतय्यः क्लिष्टाक्लिष्टाः ॥५॥
ਵ੍ਰੱਤਯਃ ਪੰਚਤਯ੍ਯਃ ਕਲਿਸ਼ਟਾਕਲਿਸ਼ਟਾਃ [[੫]]
[[5]] There are (ਪੰਚਤਯ੍ਯਃ) five main types of (ਵ੍ਰੱਤਯਃ) wandering that causes (ਕਲਿਸ਼ਟਾਕਲਿਸ਼ਟਾਃ, ਕਲੇਸ਼ ਕਲੇਸ਼) suffering upon suffering.
प्रमाण विपर्यय विकल्प निद्रा स्मृतयः ॥६॥
ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ ਵਿਪਰ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਵਿਕਲਪ ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਸਮ੍ਰਤਯਃ [[੬]]
[[6]] 1. (ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ) Perception 2. (ਵਿਪਰ੍ਯ੍ਯ) Intellect 3. (ਵਿਕਲਪ) Imagination 4. (ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ) Sleep 5. (ਸਮ੍ਰਤਯਃ) Memory
So tackling sleep is something we ought to be doing. And sleep here is referring to laziness but also as deep sleep.
And one of the ways to tackle sleep is meditation before sleep.

I am not overweight but even i can't sit straight for that long, maybe 20 minutes max.
What really helps me is to lie down and meditate in a straight posture. Completely flat, feet spread shoulder length. Arms to the side, palms facing down. Head straight. Preferably on a flat surface, a bed that is not too soft. Good standing posture but while lying down instead.
I discovered this naturally while meditating before going to sleep, but then I later found out this is called teh Shav Asan.
I think this asan reduces what Lucky calls, eruption of energy. I often find that my energy gets balanced out over my body during the meditation and often times, I feel like I am lying on a cloud or floating as a ball of energy.
I don't experience any jolts in this posture. Which I do experience while sitting straight.
It's like a water tank but since you can hear things, you have to practice some dhyan to tune them out.
 

Sounds similar to my experience. I remember Lucky describing it a long time ago as well. Feeling jolts that straightened the back during simran.
Any accompanying shivers? or shivers by themselves?

That's true.

The new you will have less anxiety and more compassion, will be able to open up more and receive people with warmth. (at least most of the time)

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਰਾਤਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਜਾਨੁ ॥
Ram naam nu din raat japo, es tara Gurmukh nu Hari de dhan bare pata lag jaunda hai.

Jap all day Lunalon. Whenever you remember it, start your Jap. Don't stop, keep going. If you lose track, get back to the Jap.

Best thing you can do is to fill up all the areas in your life where you are not meditating and start meditating in those areas.
You can practice techniques described by Sat and Lucky above, and insert them in the following activities.
You can also try to experience the activity in its fullest, I will describe this below, along with some example of activities during which you could easily meditate.
Let's start

1 you wake up - start meditation immediately
- open your eyes, look around the room as you would if you woke up in a strange location
like an alien visiting earth, study every in the room
- feel the bedsheets, listen to the early morning sounds
- when you get up feel the weight of your body sitting on the bed, then feel your feet touch the floor.

2. brushing teeth - focus on the sounds and sensations of the brush
- the touch of water, how wet is it, how hot/cold,
- feel the water move around in your mouth, on your hands, face

3. washing dishes - again focus on the sensations of the water, the temperature, the flow
- feel the dishes as you would a newborn child, touch them, what do they feel like
- what does the soap feel like
- how does the water look like when it hits the dish, how does it flow down the dish

4. walking from one place of the house to another
- bring your attention to your feet and feel the floor/carpet you walk on
- think about the texture and the hardness
- feel the muscles of your feet in action

5. every now and then just take a deep breath
- as soon as you remember this take a deep breath
- if you waiting for someone or something, just take a deep conscious breath
- focus on the breath as it goes in and comes out
- if you can look out of a window, look at the sky, the trees, listen to the birds and take a deep breath

Just fill up all the space, all the routine tasks with meditation and you will see a HUGE difference in your life

Gurjot read Journeys out of the body by Robert Monroe
http://www.amazon.ca/Journeys-Out-Body-Robert-Monroe/dp/0385008619
You can probably download it from somewhere if you google it.
He went through the same thing and didn't know what to do about it. He thought he was ill at first. And he had to get used to it and experiment with it to find out what was going on, etc. Then he started having journeys, he traveled to places, met other souls, etc.

The book is an awesome read. I normally don't read books but I read this one. I am trying to experiment with OBE. I haven't had one where i traveled but I have had similar experiences as you describe where the soul dissociates from the body. The soul sinks below the bed or rises above the bed. The body sometimes feel floaty. Sometimes, my hand comes out and float above the physical hand. Sometimes, the whole body does. Sometimes my body falls asleep and freezes, can't move, and I enter into darkness, into nothing.

We can also make a new thread about OBE, similar to this thread, where you and I can share any experiences of OBE we have.

Anyway, keep in touch.

With meditation, it is all about fixating your attention on one point. So if you are doing a chakra meditation, then you pick a chakra, any chakra, and you fixate your attention on that. Your attention may wander, just reel it back in everytime.
It doesn't have to be a chakra though, you could do the same with another technique. Picking 1 sensory stimulus in that technique, like the sound of Ram naam in naam simran, and fixating your attention on that.

I am that 'other' guy who says you should listen to your blood pumping and ear drum vibrating. lol
When you are listening to this music... remember these words.
There's a trap in any practice/ritual.
Watch out for this trap!
What trap?
What happens is that people forget that they are there to train their concentration. people forget that they are there to obtain Yog with Waheguru, ie to merge with their mool swaroop.
They forget to - Chit Vriti Nirodh - to stop the wandering of the mind.

While you are on your inner journey, if you forget your purpose, if you forget why you are there and where you intend to go, then you will get lost in sounds and stuff. These will become like the vicious sirens, and no matter how much you tie yourself up with ropes, they will get to you.
Even those people who are chanting mantras, when they forget why they are doing it, they get distracted easily and then where did the mantra go? nobody knows.
We don't want to fall in this trap.
We want to progress and merge with Ram. This is the purpose for which you and I were created.
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥ ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
Kabir ji says, chant "Ram, Ram" but keep this in mind! The ones who didn't have the intention to merge with Ram, they merged in many worldly distractions; the ones who maintained an intense intention to merge with Ram, they merged with Ram.

My answer is the same as it is for all things in life -
Step 1 Set a Goal for yourself
Step 2 Accomplish the Goal
Many on the forum will tell you not to focus on the sound rather focus on Mantra. This is because they have set that goal for themselves that we are only going to focus on mantra and then they try to accomplish this goal and try to ignore the distractions that take them away from the goal.
For me personally, I like to experiment and I like to set different goals. I sometimes set the goal of focusing on my mantra but at other times, I set other goals like focusing the sounds or other spiritual experiences.
In Guru Granth Sahib the various poets describe the sounds differently and they tell us that there are 5 types, sometimes more. They say it sounds like several instruments.
1. So I set a goal that I will focus on the sounds and clarify them more. Try to separate the sound of silence into distinct sounds - tones, vibrating strings, atmospheric sounds, etc.
One of my clients told me that they are able to listen to Anhad naad, he called it Om di dhwani, even when there is loud noise outside, and he said he can increase the Dhwani to be even louder than the loudest sounds. So I wanted to try this for myself.
2. So sometimes I try to make the sounds louder and louder by focusing my attention on them.
3. Sometimes I try to carry the sounds with me into noise.
All this time, I am setting goals, and moving towards the goal while ignoring other distractions on the path.
I train my concentration in whatever activity I do. It is not limited to sounds and stuff. If I am taking a dump, I'll practice my concentration on that and have a more satisfying dump. It's a good time to meditate and everybody wants a really satisfying dump lol

Yea your eyes will naturally go where you place your dhyan, if you place it on your torso or legs, they will look down. If you place it on oyur head or above your head, they will look up. If you place your dhyan in the eyelids or in front of you, they will look straight.
As long as they are not strained, you are good to go.
Yea there are many places you can place your dhyan and practice concentration.
You can concentrate on
- the tip of your nose
- the air going in and out of your nose
- the sound vibration as you hear it
- the rise and fall of your stomach
- an image your are imagining
- anything
- even elements and visualizations...
So there are many ways to meditate, even meditating on an element is just practicing of dhyan and attuning yourself with what you are meditating on.
If you are outside, one thing you can do is to try to place your dhyan in a tree, in the air or wind, in the water bodies, etc.
Pull the dhyan way from the body and yourself and bring it into the tree. Become one with what you are meditating on. 
Get comfortable and try to move your locus of awareness into the tree. Be the tree.
 
Your grandpa is someone I would like to meet and discuss with. Where does he live?
 
It's important to be clear about what you have an experience with and what you have heard or read. Also many spiritual folks watch a lot of dharma talks on youtube or listen to katha, etc. For each hour of katha you listen to, you should do several hours of meditation and experience the things described in the spiritual lecture. However they do not follow those up with practice. They don't try to experience and yet still talk about such things as if it was their experience.
Those that say they heard it somewhere are better off because they are being honest about their approach to this. however they are still worse off than those are actually practicing and trying to achieve those states
 
What they think they are doing is preventing their ahankar from rising. And there is some truth to that because ahankar can flair up when someone talks about themselves.
But what they are actually doing is preventing any sort of analysis in to what they are experiencing. They might get criticized by some so they are preventing their ahankar from getting hurt by criticism.
If you don't share your experience, no one can help you progress. If someone is more advanced than you, they will be able to see where you stand and where you need to go and how to get there, simply by getting a good account of your experiences.
There is tremendous learning potential from sharing experiences, but it's important to share with those whom you trust.
 
You can talk about what you know and what you have heard, as long as you are clear about the distinction.
There is belief and then there is knowledge. People are not clear about the distinction between the two. They confuse beliefs for knowledge.

 
I think your grandpa and I would have some interesting conversations.

Those were the last set of questions.
Clearing up Misconceptions about Agya Chakra meditation
I'll tell you why I am asking such questions. I believe that it is not because of meditating on Agya chakra too early that you got a headache and such. And it's not an imbalance in the pavan.
It's because your muscles in your face, your jaw muscles and maybe even your neck muscles are tightening up during your meditations on the agya chakra.
I used to meditate on the agya chakra a lot and I would feel a pressure in my head between my eyes. My eyes were not straining but I felt a pressure. I thought "cool! my third eye chakra is activating". thus for many years I mistook the pressure in the forehead as the third eye chakra activating. Now the pressure is in the same region as the third eye however when a chakra is working properly you should ideally feel nothing. It is when the chakra is not working properly do you ever feel the chakra.
One day I accidentally noticed that if I loosen my jaw everytime there is pressure in the sinus region, then the pressure will go away. I thought it was just a conincidence at first. But everytime I got pressure in that region, I just loosened my jaw and it would go away. Evertime.
 
Muscle Tightness causes Pressure
Tightness in the jaw can cause such pressure when you are meditating. It's either the jaw or other muscles in the face that become tight and they cause that pressure feeling.
Sinus infection can also cause such pressure it but I didn't have that and if you don't then it is this tightness and tension in the face that is causing the pressure.
Btw do you see why you would find it difficult to breath and get a headache if some of the muscles in your face, jaw and neck are tight?
It is important to loosen all these muscles by proper stretching (yes you can stretch and loosen your jaw muscle). I think while meditating we tend to strain our facial muscles, by putting in effort into the dhyan. Some people even up straining their eye muscles.
Your eyes should be relaxed and still while you meditate. The movement of your eyes is unimportant what matters is where your attention is, what matters is where you are concentrating.
 
How do you know where you dhyan/attention is?
You should not need to do this.
You should not strain your eye muscles ever. That can cause problems. Keep your eyes relaxed and still, and if they get tense then loosen them up by rolling your eyeballs around and stretching all the muscles.
Stop looking with your eyes, instead try to develop an awareness of your entire body, of each limb, each area of the torso where we describe the chakras to be, each finger, etc, without physically looking there.
You know the shape of your body and you should be able to tell where you are focusing in on the body. meditating on the body is whole different field of meditation. However for naam japna, just do a basic body scan, and become aware of the shape of the body and then go back to focusing on the mantra.
That's only if you want to focus on a body part while naam japna. This is not a requirement. Naam japna can be done with full concentration in the dhwani, the vibration of it.
Other variations include -
- Becoming aware of the sound vibration as it vibrates in the body.
- Chanting with others and focusing on the entire dhwani/vibration generated by everyone instead of just your own.
 
How do you know if you are meditating on a chakra?
There are many ways of meditating on chakra. But what I consider the highest meditation, mastery level, is to dwell in the region of the chakra.
To be able to move the locus of your awareness to those regions.
 
What is a locus of awareness? locus of consciousness?
It is the seat of consciousness in the body. The default position for it is in the head, in the agya chakra.
When you are able to concentrate well enough, you can move this seat into your belly, your heart, your feet, etc. Then it will seem as if you are located in your belly and your head is above you.
You can even move this locus of awareness above your head, and outside of the body. When you do that then it is known as an Out of Body Experience.

There is also this sakhi of Guru Gobind Singh ji -

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਜੀ ਤੁਮ ਪੰਥ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਾਣਾ ਰਚਯੋ ਕੇਸ਼ ਰਖਵਾਯੋ ॥
ਗੁਰੂ ਗਰੀਬ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਬਤਾਵਹੁ ॥ ਕਿਸ ਕਾਰਨ ਕਰਿ ਇਨਹੁਂ ਰਖਾਵਹੁ ॥3॥
Nau Nidh Khatri asks “Shri Prabhu ji, you run this path, you have kept your Hair unshorn. Guru Ji, helper of the poor, tell me, why have you kept long hair?"


ਸੁਨਿ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖ ਫੁਰਮਾਵਨਿ ਕਰਯੋ ॥ ਤੁਮ ਕੋ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਹੁਤ ਬਿਚਰ੍ਯੋ ॥
ਪੜ੍ਹਨ ਸ਼੍ਰਵਨ ਮਹਿਂ ਬੈਸ ਬਿਤਾਈ ॥ ਇਹ ਗਤਿ ਲਖੀ ਕਿ ਨਹਿਂ ਤੁਮ ਪਾਈ ॥4॥
Hearing this Guru Ji said, "You have studied many Shastra, many religious texts. You have spent your life listening and reciting the Shastra, yet you have not come to realize the answer”


ਧਰਮ ਰਖਨਿ ਕੇਸ਼ਾਦਿਕ ਭਲੇ ॥ ਸਨਕਾਦਿਕ ਤੇ ਆਵਤਿ ਚਲੇ ॥ ਭਾਰਥ ਖੰਡ ਬਿਖੈ ਸ਼ੁਭ ਦੇਸ਼ ॥ ਕੇਸ਼ ਰਾਖਣੋ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਸ਼ੇਸ਼’ ॥5॥
"Adorning long hair is to keep this dharm, this tradition alive, which was started by Sanak, Sanatan, Sanandana, Sanatkumar, and others. In the land of Bharat dwells a great country, here keeping hair unshorn is an important part of our Dharam."


ਸੁਨਿ ਕੈ ਨਉਨਿਧ ਬਹੁਰ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਆਪ ਕਹਹੁ ਸਭਿ ਸਾਚ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਕੇਸ਼ ਧਾਰੀ ਸਭਿ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਅਬਿ ਤੌ ਸਮਾ ਰਹ੍ਯੋ ਨਹਿਂ ਸੋਈ’ ॥6॥
Listening to the answer, Nau Nidh replied, “what you have said is true. In the beginning, everyone used to keep their hair unshorn. However, that time is gone”


ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਭਨ੍ਯੋ ‘ਸਮਾ ਕ੍ਯਾ ਕਹੈ ॥ ਸੋ ਰਵਿ ਸੋ ਸਸਿ ਸੋ ਜਲ ਅਹੈ ॥ ਬਾਯੂ ਬੰਨੀ ਬਸੁਧਾ ੳਈ ॥ ਦੋਸ਼ ਸਮੈ ਕੋ ਕ੍ਯਾ ਕਹਿ ਕੋਈ ॥7॥
Guru Ji replied, “What does time have to do with it? The same sun remains, the same moon, water, wind, fire and earth remain. How can anyone blame time?"


ਆਪਨ ਆਪ ਕੋ ਦੋਸ਼ ਲਖੀਜੈ । ਰਾਖੇ ਜਾਇਂ ਨ, ਸਾਚ ਕਹੀਜੈ ॥ ਕੇਸ਼ ਰਖਨਿ ਕੀ ਸਮਰਥ ਹੀਨੇ ॥ ਦੋਸ਼ ਸਮੇਂ ਪਰ ਕਲਪਨ ਕੀਨੇ ॥8॥
"Blame yourself and only yourself, speak the truth, you are unable to keep hair. You lack the capability to keep your hair so you blame everything on the time."

If we look at the rates of rates of violence, death and suicides in our society. We find that on average men are ones who are dieing more and suffering from more violence than women. (The rates of suicide for war veterans are much higher than the average male population.) In areas like Afghanistan and Iraq where the situation is much more hostile, where they might be at war or some conflict, where men are the protectors of society of women, elders and children. I would assume the rates of violence against men, male deaths and suicides are much higher.

I don't think you are a man hater. I am sure you are a beautiful being behind your posts. I just think you have been indoctrinated with a perspective that is not based on evidence/reality and is a distorted, lop-sided view of reality. The generalizations that come out of this perspective are plain wrong.

You present more anecdotes of which you and I have very little understanding of. You don't live in those countries, you don't know what's going on in those environments. And I am damn sure that since you believe "men oppress women" that you will find it quite easy to over look actual reasons, to make the reality fit your own worldview.

And you have no knowledge of male suffering in these environments. You have no idea that it even exists. You will claim there is none, amirite?

Your whole perspective is wrong because it is lop-sided. If you think you are a spiritual person then it's your job to fix that and I am sure you will if you take the time to do some introspection.

I think so because if there are banis about Bhagawati, then why not flags too? It's not a stretch.
Have a look at this Asht-Bhuj Dhwaj - the Eight-Armed Insignia. This is a symbol of Bhagawati as well. Those Singhs say that it was in Guru Gobind Singh ji's possession.

“She is the most beautiful among women who loves the Guru and wears this jewel on her forehead.”
– Guru Nanak Dev ji (Guru Granth Sahib, 54)
 

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Artist's Notes
Mai Bhago ji, Mother Bhago, sought after Guru Gobind Singh ji’s blessings to have a son. But while travelling to Guru ji, she was distressed to hear that a group of 40 Singhs had deserted him during the Battle of Anandpur.
She rode to their gathering, made them realize their mistake and then set off along with them to find Guru Sahib, who was still being followed by the Mughals. They reached Khidrana, where a battle took place between the two armies.
In this battle, those 40 Singhs were all slain, Guru Sahib forgave them and they came to be known as the Chali Muktay, the liberated ones, and Khidrana came to be known as Muktsar.
Tragically, Mai Bhago ji’s husband and brothers were killed in this battle and so she dedicated her life to meditation and attained liberation.
After attaining liberation, Mata ji became detached from the physical world and its customs and traditions. She started to live her life free of all attachment to objects and any desire to do anything.
Kavi Santokh Singh ji explains that her spiritual state reached a point where she became even detached from basic things such as wearing of clothes.
This is when Guru Gobind Singh ji intervened and suggested to Mata ji that in order to preserve the honour of her family, she should cover her head and wrap herself with a shawl.
Mata ji obeyed Guru Sahib and continued to meditate on God until her last breath.
The Daughter turned Wife turned Warrior turned Saint, Mai Bhago ji’s story is very inspirational to those who are on the Path of the Saints.
For me Mai Bhago ji has been a constant inspiration to take action, to take charge, and make things happen. When I heard about the latter part of her life, she then also became an immense inspiration for me to meditate and to cultivate strong states of detachment.