dalsingh101

Thing with Panjabi folk music is that it usually does follow generic lyrical, rhythmic patterns/structures which are modified by subsequent people. The jugni verses are a clear example. So even if he did do what is being implied, is it really that unusual?

I think it is used in perfumes? I vaguely recall mention of the use of a silver spoon to extract the musk from the navel? PS - Isn't kasturi also the name for dried methi leaves? The ones that make your armpits emit funky aromas when indulged in excessively?

When I first encountered jugni, she was chewing 'chingum' on Soho Road, Birmingham like this: Jugni aa gaye Birmingham, khundee Soho Road te chingum. Lyrics I've never forgotten, despite not having heard the tune for decades. I think it was by Apna Sangeet? If the original post is accurate, jugni has deviated a long way from her political background. Here is the article I mentioned by the notorious Khushwant: http://www.sikhchic.com/columnists/eternal_jugni

http://www.adelaidesangat.com/index.php/downloads/Gurbani-PDF/Miscellaneous-Banis-hard-to-find/Uggardanti.pdf/

Okay, I read that piece before and do find the notion of 'jugni' being a pendu style corruption of the word 'Jubilee' wryly amusing. Maybe it was, I have no idea. It makes sense in the context of some wondering entity, if it is based on the travels of some olympic style torch. In any case Tony, you should have also clearly identified the author of the piece you posted. Unless I'm wrong, it is none other than Khushwant Singh? Nah, I only stick the boot into any 'bwah bwah' penducentric and bumlicking stuff. Nowt else.

Mistake

Found this. Thought I'd share it with anyone who might be interested. Not too sure about the quality of the translation though? Uggardanti.pdf

Came across this fascinating character when researching Macauliffe. He too was a contemporary convert to an eastern religion who seems to have been largely been forgotten until recently.

I guess he was a sehaj dhari Sikh?

It was one step away from a 'forced marriage'. lol

Sometimes I get the feeling that of all the legacy bequeathed us by our Gurus, the beautiful, sublime social gospel they taught and lived is one that has had the least impact on Panjabi Sikh society. We positively seem to ignore it? lol Anyway, I'm looking forward to that book review you are working on, pull your finger out tidy it up and post it.

Forget the hardcore personal rehat stuff, we haven't even managed to let the wider, good egalitarian stuff permeate our society. We are so far removed from how we were told to act.

If not, what then?

I thought you was jumping on that Japanese thing and going to learn Panjabi?

Just being around these people seems to cost our lot, gravely. Even if it's the way they spread their ideas into our heads and bingo - you've got compliant sell out, coconuts. At best indifferent to Sikh interests, at worst ready to sell any Sikh cause out without a blink or second thought. I'm sure it wont, but I'm pretty sure all of the change around them is having an accumulatively negative effect on them in ways not so apparent right now. Hypothetically a nice time to get a Sikh boot in. That's way too simplistic. Our culture is also one of our more divisive forces. Normative notions of personal morals differ widely across subcommunities. That's what we desperately need more consensus on. Have we ever not been like this I wonder? Or maybe what we've been condition to believe we need, but could really do without. Sure everyone likes status, but sometimes it seems like our lot can become obsessed with it?

Just keep them isolated on a farm. They seem to love it? Or so they keep going on... A very accurate and wise attitude to hold in my opinion. I hear you - but one big f**king flaw. Panjab is TINY!!! Plus that whole caste thing IS going to get played out when it comes to labour division. It's a potential time bomb. I thought this was going to be your thing? In any case, I'm wondering if enough of our people actually care enough about this today and are even 'accessible' for new ideas for this to have any serious sort of impact today? Like I said, get to know the common Panjabi man better, it will be enlightening, I promise you.

My insight is this. Consider it an opinion. These people, who have consistently been stabbing us in the back and historically using our more gullible and mercenary farmers for their own political and economic domination, need to be treated with the gravest of suspicion and contempt (at a corporate not personal level) when it comes to Sikh interests. This is a lesson we consistently fail to learn and these people seem to know how to tap into the more sycophantic and selfish elements of our community. I find the original post quite insightful because despite what may happen in future, the frosty response towards the ever opportunistic Brits, is one we should learn from. I have no doubt that they probably expected to be warmly heralded when they embarked on the above mission, but this opposition seems to have put things in context for them. But you hit on something important: What exactly binds us and as to the differences, which ones are ones that cause the exploitable splits between us?

As you are the guy who was so strongly pushing for heavier industrialisation in Panjab, given your above statement, could it be that this hypothetical industrialisation might even lead to a similar problem in a theoretical HSD run Panjab? There is no way around it. We have to figure out our own narrative, sure we can use elements of others, but it still has to be one that is tailored to our purposes in the end. No need to get arsey about our own lot not have gotten there yet.

Well, , good luck with your lofty ambitions for the panth. Sorry, I just don't see what you see. I honestly hope you are going to actually try and do something outside of talking on the net. Seriously. Here is wishing you the best.

Watched it. Thought it was interesting. Well worth a watch if you are contemplating it. But you do know it is essentially Anglocentric propaganda in the face of actual fear of the eastward slide, don't you? I noticed how he quickly glossed over the fact that it was his own people pumping the Chinese with opium with his smarmy comment about coffee houses. Maybe some people can gloss over the murder, displacement, enslavement and subjugation of people by representing it as the natural result of 'competition'? I certainly am not one of those types and I'm no angel either.

You've lost the plot. I've heard this from more Sikhs (mainly but non uniquely the farming types) than any other Indians, no actually, more than ANY other community formerly subjugated by the Brits. Who jumps about more proudly about their sepoy position in the empire than Sikhs, especially the usual pendus? You conveniently brush over the fact that many of our lot were 'willing accomplices' in all this. Furthermore they even went abroad and helped the English (and their other minions) subjugate other races. Read up on the opium wars. Plus go to Singh Sabha Southall, and you can find another trickle of buffoons still up for that type of shite even today apparently? Our people still haven't learned....

Is that all it takes to swing you? A perception of some sympathetic favouring? Not about hating them. Just about knowing them in terms of the corporate relationship their community has had with ours which can be very different to individual ground level relationships. Positive relationships at ground level doesn't mean the ruling classes won't blink to shaft us if we were an obstacle to their 'interests'. It's simply about protecting ourselves from this not losing perspective because you get on well with work mates, neighbors. Anyway, screw Churchill, that lard arsed bulldog. lol If I had loyal guard dogs I'd probably speak favorably of them too.

What, perceived Aryan cultural shite? Anyway, the Hyde park 84 thing isn't that old.

Yeah, the same way you probably have an orgasm when some white military types turn up at your local Gurdwara looking for gullible farmer canon fodder to recruit....

Nothing you say indicates anything to contradict that he may have just seen them as loyal, useful tools to be kept placated and on board. Let's be frank, you've got a lot of admiration for the bulldog. You might believe having close ties with these types is possibly a good thing, I simply don't share this opinion.