dalsingh101

Truth is, it's places like Panjab that will suffer the most with global warming. We are either going to drown with the melted Himalayan ice, or die of starvation with parched land. Goray here are already preparing for it, making contingencies for changes. They've developed an apple that will grow for long seasons for example. Plus a rise in temperature here may just mean they grow tropical crops? I wonder what is Panjab doing? Our lot have a habit of being 'off the ball' on these types of things. What with being mainly pendus and all that.

The crux of the matter is just how far we go individually and as a quom on the issue? One thing is for certain, I hope we don't go the Taleban route and start throwing them off second story buildings or crashing walls on them with tanks. Then what about all of the people who end up working with them in professional environments? What's a Singh supposed to do? Avoid them? Plus lets be real, Panjab has had kusray and other whatnots roaming about quite freely, so it isn't like we haven't tolerated such things before? Hell, my brother refuses to go Panjab because he met some of those weirdos when he went as a youngster and they scared him. Those weirdos who threaten to show you their 'business' (or lack of!) unless you pay them. I'd say Panjab is pretty f**ked with weird stuff like that. Plus did you guys in the UK see that show when Paul Merton went Panjab and they showed those butch ass Panjabi blokes dressed as women...wtf! So it appears as if Panjabis generally seem to have traditionally tolerated gandus and other weirdos anyway. Maybe some back home brothers can explain this? Look I'm not exactly pro gandu, but I wouldn't go as far as to say I am anti.

This is good to see. I hope the Akal Takhat mechanisms also practically play a part by leading the way by example. It appears as if Panjab has lost much forestry over the last 2 centuries. This isn't good news. Where will we fight from and shelter against Moghul types in future huh? lol

Sir Jock Stirrup - That is a serious name.....

Pad arth of first line: ਗਡਵਾਉਣਾ - to get something pitched, planted, fixed, buried ਕਿੱਲਾ ਗੱਡਣਾ - to drive a ਕਿੱਲਾ (into); figurative usage to establish oneself firmly ਗਾਂਡ - anus ਗੈਲ - rut (groove, track) or with along, by, by means of ਘਿਸਟਾਇ - No idea, couldn't find definition??? ਵਹਿੜ - young cow, heifer Interestingly found this too under ਵਹਿੜ ...... ਜੱਟ ਬੂਟ ਜੱਟ ਵਹਿੜ - rustic, boor, yokel; an illiterate, dull, simple, unsophisticated person!! So Jatt boot is an actual Panjabi word!!?? WTF?? Guys, I don't even want to try and put those words together man.......

Okay, on repeated requests from a certain forum member who is clearly fascinated by the matter, and who shall remain anonymous <ahem.....HSD!>, I will attempt to translate the gand related portion of Panth Parkash posted earlier. I would like to take the opportunity to say, I for one will not judge a brother for certain...err..predilections.... here goes.....

You know what, I think there is a homo reference in the original Panth Prakash text but I have never been able to translate/fully understand it? I've attached it, incase anyone can nail it (pun intended).

Fair point. At least they are proud of something and not outright coppay. Truth is that I think we are on the cusp of so much change in our society in the next 50/80 years that most of us wouldn't be able to imagine it if it we tried. We will have to accommodate a lot of things that we don't even register right now. There will be a struggle between traditional/conservatives and others, uncontrollable change will force this. Those of you in your early twenties or younger, you are going to see so much in your lifetime, things are likely to be very different towards the end of this existence of yours compared to now. What we really need is controlled/managed change and not the organic type that just happens - although maybe the latter is inevitable. I just hope the well meaning conservatives don't forget to adapt a little to meet the forthcoming changing circs. This doesn't mean compromising the faith, but no doubt you will have to contend with the strong voice and reasoning of those who will see things this way. Our community will contain a wide spectrum of people. Better to just accept that than fight it in my opinion. Our influence needs to grow. Hell we are already made up of a wide spectrum! People need to accept it and realise that this spectrum will probably only get more and more diverse in certain respects and seek ways to centralise or overlap core components of the identity across this range smartly for cohesion. Look at difference between Hazoori Singhs and Panjabi ones as a precursor. Now we will have little satellite communities all over the place. But modern tech allows for communication and sharing like never before which will influence things. Certainly interesting times....

That's because they are mostly fags themselves (or have tendencies that way inclined) and are repressing it and it is coming out all ugly and angry like it always does with them. That's what I reckon. Seriously. The only other whites more bent then these lot are Greeks.

Sam-lingi anand karaj - what is this?

No, I just think that in the wide scope of things that we need to resolve as a panth here in the UK, poofterism is pretty low on the agenda. I think the UK Sikh community is probably the most troubled of the diasporic communities in western countries. Plus to be honest, I don't really want to be one of those people that just abuses poofs for no reason. Truth is that poof men are usually much better people than an ahhm goray - from my experiences anyway. Sure they can talk, dress and walk funny with their mincing ways but, more often than not, it's hilarious. Its like a bundha acting like a janani - you know that makes you laugh. Anyway, I know a few 'uncle jis' are undercover fags. Being one and pretending not to be one is worse in my opinion.

I meet so many 'Sikh' atheist/agnostics these days it's off key. Plus they are weird, like don't believe in God but still meditate or love Sikh history??

Yeh, but I had the benefit of immersion in the middle of real life first gen Panjabs and the language and culture in its raw form, warts and all. So - ha! For all the things f**ked up about them,some of those oldies were hilarious (the blokes anyway) in many ways. Especially their attempts at being cool and speaking English and the drunken pendu brawls. lol Plus, I'm older and wiser now. Like a fine wine, matured just right. Special reserve, if you know what I mean. Whilst you are a cheap bottle of Bulgarian plonk, that thinks of itself as Champagne! Poor thing, don't worry, we all go through that obnoxious stage. You'll grow out of it when your brain fully develops.

lol!! If I was a poof, I'd straight say it. I wouldn't be scared myself. I'm not trying to hide anything okay!! Before the rumour mill starts! That was a grammatical typo. Now I think about it, I sort of respect that brother for coming out with it instead of hiding it. Canada seems really mellow. I don't think he could have got away with it here in the Ju Kay? But then it cuts both ways, like that mona comedian guy with the "Pag it!" joke in his video. A few years ago in the UK someone would have tracked him down and probably roughed him up for that. Maybe it's a good thing that we can laugh at ourselves? Jews have been doing it for donkeys years with Mel Brooks etc. Even that Ali G bundha does it. Those Canucks seem to be at much more ease with themselves than JU Kay wallay. But then we are in the very belly of the beast itself so no surprise. I agree but we have to acknowledge that the Akal Takhat has already put out an anti gay thing about them getting married a few years back. Don't you lot remember? Maybe not, as you were in your nappies then? lol I think they tried this route for other problems many many years ago and err...don't believe in its 'efficacy' anymore...lol

I know it's a tangent but if we are straight up sachiar (truthful) then we have to acknowledge sullay weren't always junglee pussoos as their culture seems characterised now. They had fine art (albeit using no images but calligraphy type stuff and patterns), weaponry, architecture, maths knowledge, astrology, libraries etc. If Iraq (the then centre of Islamic civilisation) wasn't ass raped by the Mongols, maybe they would've been more advanced than now and not have lost their older preIslamic knowledge? Maybe this is a subject for a separate thread? In any case that rapper represents what we will have to deal with in future. We may as well face it. Ha ha! You new gen mofos will have to deal with all this! lol @ u! Plus being Sikh and not knowing Panjabi....haha!

I'm not being judgmental like that. I have nothing against poofters. Once when I was working in some racist company the only bloke that wasn't being an jackass was a gay man. I have no problems with them and think they can't help what they are generally (unless they where brought up in those famous posh boarding schools and were turned or groomed into being batty boys by older 'prefects', or so I have heard). I was just wondering from a theological perspective? You know, being a Khalsa and gay. I say this in a wider context of a lot of issues that aren't directly covered by the dharam, other examples being abortion. I mean I wonder what our Gurus would of made of them? Maybe they would have been really anti? That's the thing with Islam, it covers a lot of stuff so they don't have to think about and make difficult decisions on certain matters. As far as Islam is concerned you can't officially be a sullah and a poof. They are mutually exclusive. Even though a lot of those Arabs and those mountain wallay on the Pak/Afghan border dig that vibe apparently. My point was if the pagh/dhara and being openly gay was an acceptable combo? By the way, I'm sure plenty of 'uncle jis' were gay too, they just kept it undercover. Funny how we will be dealing with all this stuff in future and how it has been suppressed for so long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAlTxkVk230&feature=related Are they avoiding mentioning issues with Sikh girls on purpose? They way they are going on is like only white girls get targeted.

Found this interview of a cool keshdhari producer/rapper then found out he was gay. Just wondering what the score is with this? I know if someone like that appeared in my family they'd tell him to cut his hair straightaway if he was a poof. You know what, I was thinking that now we have spread out in the more 'open' diaspora, we will have to deal with things that are usually kept undercover back home, like gayness, lesbianism, non Panjabi speaking 3rd generation Sikhs etc. This is really going to change the shape of the panth.

Yeah, but once the Republicans get back in power, it's going to be the usual wasp 'lovefest', meaning death and destruction for the rest of us darkies. Warning this video has adult language!

Truth is, your experiences of sullay will differ not only nation to nation, but in a nation (like the UK for instance), it will differ from area to area or community to community. I doubt the experiences of a hypothetical Sikh growing up in say Edgware Road (with its strong Arabic/Persian[?] community will be anything like another one who may grow up in a more working class mainly Pakistani type area like say Luton or Walthamstow. If someone doesn't have negative experiences with a community, they often find it hard to imagine it is different anywhere else with them. Conversely, if the early experiences are profoundly negative in some sustained way, then it is easy to imagine it is no different elsewhere. What I think we can say is that yes, many (if not most) Muslims do believe in the superiority of their faith over others. Some do actively push for or support dominance, some don't. Some sullay are more regional/nationalistic and see themselves as more Iraqi/Iranian/Bengali than with this strong 'pan Islam' identity. Believe it or not, some of their sub groups often despise each other too, an example would be the way some Pakistanis and Bengali Muslim males detest each others communities. To all intents and purposes, it appears as if the Bonglos suffered similar crap to what some of our people did at partition at Pak hands. I think the notion of a monolithic Muslim community is bullshit myself. But keep alienating every last one and maybe we can unite them to become that very thing?

It's cool Chatanga. I still think hard copies are better than ebooks in any case. You can stick little post it notes on important pages and find them quicker. Plus, call me old fashioned, but nothing beats having the book in your hand and control over the pages. And they are still available if your PC/laptop dies! I've been waiting for vol 2 for a few years now. It's beyond a joke.....

It takes a few seconds to load up but here is the complete pdf of Kulwant Singh's translation of Rattan Singh Bhangu's famous Panth Prakash (volume 1)! You lucky people you! I paid good money for my copy. http://www.sikhinstitute.org/gpp_v1.pdf If you like it, show your appreciation by buying volume 2 when it gets released, which is LOOOONG overdue. Apparently the SGPC has been sitting on it for a good few years now and still haven't released it. They must be short of funds or something......

At least these brothers aren't sleeping rough like in the UK - hopefully.

No, the gori who had a thing with a nihang and then left him. She wrote this about the experience. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Indian-Attachment-Sarah-Lloyd/dp/1906011036

Flippin' 'ell! Panjab must suck big time nowadays. Seems like most Panjabis are trying to escape it one way or another. lol