dalsingh101

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Not many from what I see. Even ones who get somewhat lax after still consider themselves Muslim. I noticed Roman Catholics often seem to be attracted to it, and consider the change as natural progression?

I was reading that new book by Bobby Singh Bansal and he says that General Allard (of Maharajah Ranjit Singh's time) was ("according to the customs of the Punjab kingdom") married to a twelve year old princess (from modern day HP region) and had a baby with her within a year...... She died many years after Allard in Europe and is buried in St. Tropez. Make of it what you will.....

Mixture, but yes, a LOT of it is down to wanting to marry or be with their bfs. A good few cases I noticed (of blokes and girls) is conversion in a relationship which then continues after the relationship has ended (i.e. divorce).

I think it may take some people (i.e. me!) a good few years to get to stage where they can read or recite a bani and be 'processing' its arth simultaneously. I find I have different levels, sometimes I just straight read it, and try and take in the sounds (phonetics) but not the semantics. This is especially the case when in a rush or when exhausted. Other times a slower more relaxed reading/listening takes place with more emphasis on the arth. Even the former technique is not perfected at this stage as I'm sure a few mispronunciations take place. Nadar, nadar, nadar. I need grace for all this.

Firstly I hope you are not validating the BNP, albeit indirectly. British people were majorly responsible for uprooting many communities and causing complete havoc in foreign lands with their policies. Now karma comes back and gives them a light taste (and mean really light here), of what they have been doing for the last few centuries and some of them are up in arms about it! They can sod off and deal with it. They have no sympathy from me. Lets see how they would feel if what happened to the Sikh kingdom because of the British 'annexation', happens to them. Well seeing as so many are running around trying to entice bhaiyas to work on their farms, they'd better learn to treat them respectfully. Aren't you just condoning people behaving like narrow minded jerks? In any case, seeing as so many of our own idiot people have turned into spoilt brat smack heads in the pinds, I think it's great that hardworking outsiders have come in. Just like us coming here in Britain in contrast to the frequently work and academia shy, constantly moaning white working class here. And any apnay acting ignorant about immigrants back home can sod off too, seeing as so many of our own people are immigrants across the globe. The hypocrisy.

I've met LOADS of white girls who've converted. A good few black ones too. So I think you are wrong in your assumption SinghMunda.

My sleep is totally crazy, been insomniac since I was a kid. Just get used to it. Sometimes it's annoying, like when you haven't slept all night and decide to do morning prayers like that. It affects concentration. When I was younger I would miss a nights sleep to tire myself out for the next night. Sometimes I do find listening to this version of kirtan sohila helps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA8LooV7vlE

I hope your are not calling a Gurdwara a temple dude? Everyone has learned what a mosque is, if we describe our own places as 'temples' then that's what they will be known as. In any case I wonder if any Gurdwaray exist that don't have someone making a packet from them? I mean even our heart at Harmandir Sahib fills up the Badal clan's coffers it seems? Corrupt peasant bascud that he is.

Normally I don't read Panjabi papers but I found this at the Gurdwara today. This Pardes Weekly article seems to suggest some serious misdoings at the Southall Singh Sabha Gurdwara involving massive sums of money. What to make of it?

I went through all sort of transformations in this respect (still am), I realise that as humans we just really try and conceptualise God in our minds. It got to the point when I was imagining an image of the cosmos, or at least a galaxy when trying to meditate. This was wrong, and as a suggestion try focusing on the sound of the mantar and the emotion you generate instead?This could be dud advice of course as I too am stumbling all over the path.

I don't think we have a rep for being terrorists and if we do, it's not deserved. As for drug dealing, it's still a minority activity amongst our peeps despite what anyone says and it IS Muslims of all shades (Paks, Turks, Afghanis) who have large chunks of the UK market sowed up. Not to say there isn't a few Sikh bigwigs, but nothing like an epidemic unlike some quoms. Thankfully our people have generally resisted this trade in the diaspora (sure a few exceptions might exist but they remain that, exceptions). There is blatantly a relationship between respectable, on the surface conservative Sikh families and the production of some effed up corrupted kids. Seen it too much for it to be some coincidence. All that spoiling of the child seems to interfere with the formation of a conscience from what I've frequently seen. The status thing maybe pressurises them to carry on the dekavaah at any cost? The most ruthless, heartless low life apnay I have met have come from so-called 'respected' well off families. No man, it's died down in the UK, not grown. But the elders will always bury their heads to everything. It is the default Panjabi Sikh response to pressing issues. Issue: Mass female feticide! Response: Huh? Issue: Corrupt religious institutes! Response: Huh? Issue: Rampant alcoholism and drug addiction in panth! Response: Huh? Issue: Casteism! Response: Moo bundh kaar, ahmay ponky jundaa! etc. etc.

What makes me laugh (figuratively speaking) is how apnay often idolise successful drug dealers. I've known a few in Sikh areas who wouldn't think twice to sell to young Sikh girls but these muscled up 'bad boys' are looked up to and have women throwing themselves at them. Hell, even the local Gurdwara pardaans treat them as 'the lads'. I blame at least a part of this on the modern Panjabi peasant culture that just blindly worships maya and power. And it is just lame to turn around and use the excuse that "others do it as well though".

Someone needs to show this to the simple minded people lapping up British army propaganda in certain Singh Sabha Gurdwaras.

In this day and age where I see people celebrating soldiers of imperialistic armies engaging in morally questionable wars around me. Here is to remembering our heroes. Real heroes, defending their homeland against foreign imperialism. God bless your souls and may the panth never forget your sacrifices.

Got to watch this:

ਮਨੁ ਜੋਗੀ ਮਨੁ ਭੋਗੀਆ ਮਨੁ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ ॥ The mind is a Yogi, the mind is a pleasure-seeker; the mind is foolish and ignorant. ਮਨੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਮਨੁ ਮੰਗਤਾ ਮਨ ਸਿਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥ The mind is the giver, the mind is the beggar; the mind is the Great Guru, the Creator.

The shabad I posted is important because it establishes the Sikh theological position regarding outcastes (called Chandals I think). So there we have it, humanisation of people even beneath the shite varna system. Go on Sikhi!! Yay!

I would have agreed with you if it weren't for the fact that Jatt Sikhs go out of their way to make out like they are some sort of thekadaars of the Sikh quom. If they are, then they are doing a really crap job at this right now, living off what you may have helped do in the 18th century just doesn't cut it now. I see the halat of Panjab as very important to the wider Sikh condition. If things are really messed up there, then questions have to be asked and fingers pointed at those making a mockery of supposedly running the show on our behalf. Personally, I see Delhi being of marginal importance in this respect. I guess this is plainly Panjabicentrism?

How is that shifting blame? They are a part of 'us'. The point is that our problems mainly stem from within us. In anycase, the numbers of Khatris in the panth makes them pretty uninfluential as a cultural force in Panjab these days. This is only probably different in Delhi. This whole victim mentality desi Panjabis have adopted en masse needs to stop now. PS - Plenty of British Sikh are assimilating themselves all over the place too. We don't have that insular mentality I guess, well, at least when it comes to outsiders, between ourselves we act like idiots. The amount of Jattian or apneean in general married to, or dating goray (and others) I've met at work is beyond counting. What's your point? Given the female feticide, inter-cultural and inter-religious marriages are only going to become more prevalent - not less.

This is one of the most interesting bits for me: I'm suspecting as much nowadays. I bet you the original oral rahit was brief and simple, maybe something like: Don't cut your hair. Wear 5 weapons and a kachera (tria mudra) - (the other two Ks would have been worn to), train for and be ready to fight. Nam Jap Do Nitnem Don't mix with these people Ram Rais, masands etc. etc. Visit Gurdwara and share you earnings. Don't rape Musliaan. Don't take tobacco. Don't eat halal. Replace your caste name with Singh.

Some people may have used it wisely. I remember one girl telling me how the money her father sent to her chacha back home was spent on new tractors and how the idiot chacha had 4/5 tractors when he only needed one with the amount of land he had. Then came the inevitable feuds with other farmers who demanded he 'share' with them. Funny though, if NRIs don't help they are selfish bastards, when they do, they are ruining Panjabis back home. I tell you one thing, this culture of shifting blame away from ourselves kills the quom more than ANYTHING else. The truth is that the primary Sikh religious institute in Panjab is thoroughly corrupted by very egocentric Jatts who could not care a toss about Sikhi, Sikhs or Panjabis. Droves of the youths are plain layabout junkies. The Jatt culture emphasis on status, wealth, pleasure and dekawaah as well as 'lording' it around (being a sardar in your own imagination) has overtaken the Sikh values of restraint, discipline, abstinence and humility in Panjab. The people seem to lack a moral, spiritual base as well as an intellectual one. Under these circumstances, how are they going to do anything other than go from calamity to calamity? How is any place with such a strong preponderance of bullshit, superficial values going to be anything other than crap? Plus the combination of apnay's love of err.....chemically altered mental states mixed with Paks across the border with their drug dealing predilections doesn't help at all. But where is our vibe in all this? Are we just going to keep crying about who has wronged us or start being astute in how we raise and educate our youth? It's hard not to feel that Panjabis deserve every bad thing happening to them these days. Fix up man!!

Thought this was hilarious, but not too keen about the very last bit. Aj kal dey Canuck youtha......