fatehsingh

This thread is about Hazur Sahib. If you want to discuss Namdharis, PM me. If all you want to do is impress your online friends with your lack of knowledge and ignorance, then by all means proceed with your ego trip.

Plus they also are currently under SGPC and recite 'Agya Bhei Akal Ki' dohra after Ardas like the rest of SGPC Sikhs. This was not introduced until 1870's, so they're definitely not 'original' Sikhs with 'unblemished' practices. Back in the 1940's to even 60's, women were not baptised at Hazoor Sahib. Today they are, though with a Kirpan rather than Khanda. Meat was also not served in main Langar though now they are conflicting reports. For what it's worth, per the Namdhari tradition, Bhai Rai Singh was sent by Satguru Ram Singh to Hazur Sahib in around 1858-9 to stay and do Paath with Arth (meaning) of Sri Adi and Dasam Granth Sahibji for 3 months and record the Rahit of Hazur Sahib back for Parchar in Punjab. So per the Namdhari tradition these Jhatka and meat eating practices did not exist back then. In fact the Granthi of the inner sanctum who took care of Birs of Granth Sahibs and Shasters also did not eat from the main langar because meat-eating people frequented the main langar. It would be good to get an honest and unbiased answer on how Maryadas have changed or remained the same at Hazur Sahib.

This has been discussed before. PM me if you can't find the thread.

There's always this 'friend of mine' story lol. You lot are worse than bollywood drama actors! Apparently Baba Hari Singhji Randhawe Wale of Damdami Taksal (don't know if there are different types of 'taksal' so my apologies in advance if he doesn't belong to the one you are referring to.) wasn't told that or wasn't part of the 'Panj' who gave your 'friend' the Amrit as he has great respect for his 'Namdhari brothers' for championing Dasam Banis and their recitations. Kam1825 will be able to share more if he cares to.

See your PM.

For those who can read Gurmukhi, see attached. May clear some baseless/hateful propagandas particularly with regards to the much wrongfully mentioned 'Pattar Path beadbi theory'. But as the Satguru said towards the end, Bhala Kaho, Bhave Bura Kaho, Ham Tan Dio Hai Dtaar. So as always, take it or leave it. By the way N30, why do you have to always compare Namdharis to Radhaswamis and insult Radhaswamis to make Namdharis look more appealing? lol I've seen you done this a couple of times now. I don't think it's the only way people can understand things. More disturbing is that many of the things you say about the Radhasoamis isn't even true (I think). The pink sharbat thing etc wasn't that Sacha Sauda and not Radhasoami? Same thing with the claim about the verse in Anand Sahib. I could be wrong, but I don't know much about Radhasoamis so I won't comment further.

While I admire your sense of responsibility and 'truthiness', I'd strongly urge you to learn Gurmukhi. Without it there is no way of understanding the Sri Adi and Dasam Granth Sahib. You're missing out big time.

Valli Singh you dumbo, do you even read? The book insults Dasam Guru Granth Sahib! Excellent? This is sad state of propaganda but nothing out of the ordinary. This kind of baseless and stretching of the imagination, filling in with home-made stories and jumping to conclusions where needed should at this point be seen as pointless and not 'insightful' by those who have at least a Bachelor's degree in hand.

Chicken and the egg.

I guess we'll just have to wait for the photo of the actual Hukamnama to surface to decide for ourselves. I do agree the content is very questionable.

Sorry Valli Singh, I guess it is different in your Panth, but in Namdhari panth the word 'Sant' is synonym with 'Satguru' and those who are titled 'Sant' by the Satguru receive much of the same level of respect as you see Baba Sahib Singh Ji in the pictures, except the Chaur ofcourse. As you yourself have said, though with different words, the Sants and 'Mahaan Hasti' of those times did recieve the respect no different than the Gurus. Any how, thanks for your valuable input on this subject. I am sure everyone looks forward to reading about Babaji's and Baba Khem Singhji's history. Hopefully it will be done with truthfulness and without hidden agendas as some had done while making up 'Rahetnamas' and 'Hukamnamas'.

Valli Singh, you've mistaken my intent BIG TIME. I don't have any interest in indicting anyone in fact I have much respect for the Bedi lineage. Just stating the facts as I have come across them. Look at the picture N30 posted, he is portrayed as no less than the previous Gurus (the Halo, the chaur, etc). Mithar see Valli Singh's post. There are people who say bad things about Baba Banda as well. You'd have to read studies by independant people and decide for yourself. Tony, I agree with the fact that Baba Khem Singh was villified mainly by the Singh Sabha and if they were around at the time of Baba Sahib Singh Bedi it would not have been much different, provided there was an interest for them to villify them like in the case of Baba Khem Singhji. But with your statement about Sikhs in the 18th century were not as sentimental as today etc I don't know what point you are trying to make. There is no less or more level of morality among the Sikh leaders then and now.

Did he state the reasons why?

What always gets me is how different Baba Sahib Singh Bedi is treated compared to Baba Khem Singh Bedi by today's historians. Both were revered equally before a certain group came along, Baba Sahib Singh, as it turns out, was revered much more, even as Satguru by the Maharajas and per Valli Singh has a GURBILAS written about him! Can you confirm it is really called a GURBILAS (Tales of the Guru)? Yet today ppl make a big deal about Baba Khem Singhji for sitting on a small cushion in Darbar Sahib!

That will be even better.

Doesn't help me. There has to be a book or website where this is written. People use it all the time. Is it in Ganda Singh's compilation of Hukamname?

Where can one read this kabul Hukamnama in Gurmukhi?

Chatanga sure has the recipe for the various types of crappy dishes!

Indian politics knows no morality.

That is correct. Satjug newspaper has been around since 1920's and got shut down quite a few times by the then Punjab sarkar for anti-british news and articles. Sorry it did not occur to me when posting that there's another popular 'Darshan Singh' these days, lol. Master Darshan Singh ji is mainly a Paathi of the Granth Sahibs. He doesn't really do much katha or parchaar in any other sense. Anyways, I thought it was a good article.

Isn't that based purely on assumption?

Yes. Read the whole article. Its mentioned in there as well.

Interesting article worth reading about Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

There's actually quite a controversy on whether the land where Harimandir Sahib sits was granted (offered for free) by Akbar or not. For a good read: http://sikh-heritage.co.uk/heritage/golden%20T/gltemple.html

Read the 'blindly support' books that are recommended by person from that movement and see for yourself. If you want to learn then ou have to take the time and read. Nobody is without bias. There have been middle ground scholarly work done, but even those works are usually not flawless. Punjab Dia Lehra by Shamsher Singh Ashok is one such book that can be recommended in the sense that it summariezs the movements quite well. From a website point of view, www.sikh-heritage.co.uk does a pretty decent job of preaching the virtues without insulting or being judgemental about Sikh movements. Unfortunately the masses don't like this because it doesn't fill them with hate and anger unlike the propaganda material based largely on Indian dramas (all point of views and no facts!).