Kam1825

So Khalsa Fauj in your opinion is Jaap Sahib bani or not! As you do not see the name of Nanak in it at all? If it is not the bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji who wriote it then, and i would like a name not some random group you hate!

Brilliant about time

What names did Guru Gobind Singh Ji use when they penned their literature?

What makes you draw the conclusion that it isn't?

Chaupai sahib very much existed before amrit sanchar of 1699 What would be more imporant is the Panj Granthi of Bhai Mani SIngh Ji which has the sanpooran nitnem, rehraas (with the saloks from the dasam granth) and the kirtan sohila. The same with the Panj Granhti of Baba Maharaj SIngh Ji Nourangabad Walae from the 19th century both of which are kept in the british library. These show the banis recited by the hazoori sinkh and that 100 years later the sadhus kept the traditions the same

"If you have it, link the scanned pages. Also, why is he writing in sanskrit, if you can't scan." - I have not got time to scan about 10 - 150 pages to try an make you understand something out of your comprehension. It is written in sanskrit as that is what the scholar decided to write it in! What sort of a question is that. That is like asking Bhagat Kabir Ji why he wrote his Bijak Granth in Hindi or Bhagat Namdev Ji why they wrote in Marathri! "Write a summary on what that person wrote in his book." A Sikh scholar, and not a baba or sant incase that is what you were getting at! Im sorry to tell you though he wans't a missionary student so it would not interest you.

Guru Gobind SIngh Ji are using different Pseudonyms while writting their literary works. Just like the Bhatts in the Missionary teekas and Sahib Singh Teekas such as Bhatt Jalap writes under the names of Jal, Tal and Jalap!

WOW more new members joining this forum, i wonder what rock these Afgana wannabes have come out from Right Khalsa Fauj, your big issue is that you are not happy about the sequence in which people appear in the dasam granth. Ok i know you have complete sharda in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji so i pose this question to you from there and it is the same context in which you pose your shabad. I do not support the AKJ view that Raagmala is not gurbani, i aree it is bani and understand it through the deep meaning done by taksal to explain the issues with it. Also Sant Tehal SIngh Ji's analysis of it is worth reading In the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji you have 31 raags starting with Sri Raag to Jaijaiwantee. Bhai Gurdas Ji states that Sri Raag is the greatest of raag however in the Raagmala its states the first raag is Bhairou. Is this not a similar ambiguity!

to stopthe mind from wondering i have focused on the viakhiya of the gurmantar. That way you control the mind as well

can someone please record their divans, i will try to get them posted somewhere if someone can do this!

Again NEO this thread has gone way off topic, can these either be controlled, edited or closed due to a lack of progress!

Hari Singh rejected Akaal Takht maryada and said meat is wrong. Whole panth had been eating meat until 1900s when this sant babadom came on orders of British to defile Sikhi. Thats funny, you say what isn't missing from Guru Granth Sahib Ji but maybe you missed all those shabads based on killing and meat that Baba Hari SIngh Ji brings up in the debate from Guru Sahib. But i guess that is on one of those occaisions when Sahib Singh's teeka is right! Another thing i dont have a problem with you showing your arrogance and not respected saints but to call Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji just Mani Singh shows the level of respect you had for Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Hazoori Sikhs who gave his life for this panth and maintained the sanctitiy of Sri Harmandir Sahib until the day of his shaheedi.

" At least Jeonwala had sack to debate about topic suggested by Hari Singh." i believe these were questions written by Kala Afgana in the Rozana paper which Baba Hari SIngh answere and not the other way around Are you aware of why the debate on the Dasam Granth never took place, have you spoke to Prof Darshan Singh or Baba Hari SIngh Ji about it? I have, both state they did not take part in the debate due to Vedanti's Hukamnama not to debate on thsi topic. I might not accept the Hukam of Akaal Takhat being the manmukh i am but both of these did, which says alot about Jeonwala. Neo - go through the thread and take out what is not relevant to the topic initially started, please!

//Question - Also, before trying to promote Dasam Granth, you guys need to decide about Poets SHyam, Raam and Kaal. It is very confusing when one says they are pen names of Guru Ji and other person says they are poets and someone else says they are rishi munis.// This has been answered, if Sahib Singh States that the Bhatts can do this in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji then Guru Sahib can also follow this rule in Dasam Granth. The missionaries also agree that the Bhatts used different names to pen their shabads. Stop asking the same question again and again. Maybe then you will not need to waste your time posting lots on threads that have already been answered

That is Jeonwala! he was very quite towards the end of this debate with Sant Hari Singh! Khalsa Fauj, how come Gurcharan SIngh Jeonwala has nto taken his amrit as you have. Does he not believe in it or something as he seems to be particularly happy to put his points accross about Sikhism but will not became a part of the Khalsa fauj himself?

i cant believe i wasted 20 minutes reading this thread! What a waste of praan!

i will say this one last time, please see Pandit Amar Singh Ji's pustak in Sanskrit for clarification on the Bachittar Natak, signing out Mahant Noranious!

Khalsa Fauj wrote "Prof. Sahib Singh's aarths of Bhatt Swayas aren't accurate so it doesn't matter how many bhatts he thought there were. Guru Nanak's gaddi naheens used Nanak so it must be Nanak or the 10th Nanak isn't the writer. Simple and clear. Guru Nanak's jots use Nanak and it is evident from 1st Paatshah to 10th Paatshah. Poets of Dasam Granth have nothing to do with Sikh dharam." Can i suggest you do not use any referance to this teeka anymore as you have shown it is flawed and discredited. After 35 years of research as Guru Da Sikh said this was the most accurate teeka, but i agree with you Khalsa Fauj not alot accurate with this teeka. For this reason i suggest Sahib Singh's Teeka is not mentioned or used again and for this reason we use a teeka you think is accurate!

No thicko you missed my point, Ramanand the Bairagee came way before the prophet, the order of the Bairagees continues, Bhagat Ramanand was also Bairagee Ramanad who Guru Granth Sahib Ji speaks about. You lack of knowledge or indescretion does not allow you to understand that this was infact an order and the order was not sarted by the Bhagat in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Guru Gobind Singh Ji have put all in chronological order as rightly done. As i said you were not specific. I have answered your question, that should be enough for this thread. you got the answer you needed now focus on your silly poll! If you are still confused please read the Sanskrit book i have cited as referance. If you cant read it i am sure one of your friends can translate it for you

my friend i am sorry to say, forum quality has gone to rat shit! What i suggest is open 3- 5 threads such as; Questions on the Dasam Granth, Questions on Bhai Gurdas Dian Vaaran, Questions on ...... that way those who have doubts should place their question in number order and someone who has the knowledge will answer it. That question is not to be asked again only further questions should be posted. Once a question is answered that should be the end of the debate. While joginder Singh Vadenti was the Akal Takhat Jathedar he and the jathedars issued a statement that no debates were to go on about the authenticity of the dasam granth. Due to this many teekas were not printed but cyberspace seems to be away from everything and we have this issue here which quite rightly needs to be addressed although this looks like a planned attack on the roots of sampardaic Sikhi but a nomer of co ordinated members on this forum who have appeared as if out of thin air over the last week or two

"Someone who can't tell the difference between Poet Shyam, Poet Raam, Poet Kaal and Guru Gobind Singh Ji is talking about literary field." Khalsa Fauj a quick question you like Prof Sahib Singh Ji's teeka for this reason i put this question to you In Bhatt Sawais Prof Sahib Singh states that there isn't 17 bhatts but 11. Bhatts like Jalap writes under the name of Jal and Tal as well, and so on with the other bhatts as well. If the Bhatts can do this in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji then whey cant Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji who were the master of poets, the Jot of Guru Nanak Dev Ji write under different names as well as he allowed his bhatts to do so whilst in the fifth manifestation, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji.

You need to be more specific. Ramanand was the title of the leader of Bairagis and this gaddi was passed down from one sucessor to another all of whom used the name of Ramanand. The Bhagat Ramanand you get in bani was the last leader of the bairagis as he imparted his spiritual wisdom with those who by birthrite were less fortunate such as Bhagat Kabir and Bhagat Ravidas. Due to the social prejudices of the Brahmins this gaddi ended there. but started many many generations before and that includes before Prophet Mohammed. Bhai Jodh Singh and Bhai Dharam Singh in their enlgish teeka put a footnote of this part of the bachittar natak. If you want the full history of every ramanand i suggest you research the Sanskrit works of Pandit Amar Singh which is available in Kanshi. A lot of research into this point has gone into this 19th century book What i would suggest for this poll is you make the question more specific as in which Ramanand you are referring to, the one who commenced the order of the bairagis who is mentioned in bachittar natak of the divine Bhagat Ramanand Ji who has a shabad in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and whose shish Bhagat Kabir Ji and Bhagat Ravidas Ji are ever remembered as Bhagats as well.

My friend judging by the different understanding people have of bani, granths, vaars, vidya, sants and how we cannot agree here. In a seperate Sikh state we will end up dividing it in moments and their is no one spiritually and politically with the mindset to invoke a theocratic state of khalistan. Im afraid at this moment in time that state will implode God will hand the Sikhs thier state when his will is followed with love and devotion

just a quick link to Katha by Sant Manjit SIngh Ji Harkhowalae and a video on Dera Santgarh http://sanghajaspreet.blogspot.com/

added today loads of audio katha by Bhai Balbir Singh Ji Damdami Taksal http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio/katha/k..._Taksal_wale%29