Lucky

CBT...yes!!.......this is definitely the answer........I have been engaging in it for a few years.

Quite simply...we have Mind, body and Soul. Soul is the atma,----drop in ocean-->drop of atma in paramatma Mind is jyot saroop...OR it came from the same paramatma origin, but now in Maya it thinks that it is the master and the one running the show ! When I say ""running the show"..............i'm referring to Body, remember we are Mind, Body and Soul.. ..And the Mind has become enveloped in the matrix illusion and thinks that it controls both the body and the soul.. ...It actually acts like it is the master of the atma,, and this is the same atma from which it was formed..(the jyot saroop) Adding to this,, I've just realized that quite simply... this is how us descriptions of Man-mat(Mind's wisdom) and Gur-mat(atma's wisdom) are coined. Thus, when we let the MIND be the master over the Atma.-->then we are in MAN-MAT. But if we let ATMA be the master of Mind, then we in GUR-MAT So, what's the secret of getting the Atma/soul to show it's true self and be mastering the Mind ??..............in more simple words, by stilling that racing hyperactive mind.

I'm telling you guys.....last night (pooranmashi).... I certainly felt the moons energy and had plenty of subtle vibrations flowing within... I'm really not surprised that you felt the same Sat...(I did suggest on an other thread that everyone have a go at some meaningful jap and I was being serious!) I swear this moon business and pooranmashi... is bigger than we actually realise.. ...and I'm not saying that because of nanaksar.. because I've never been associated with any jatha......But seriously, I've only realised the spiritual strengths and truth that has come from Nanaksar's directions since I've been doing abyaas myself. Dhan dhan Guru Nanak Dev ji.......

Overcome...meaning to overpower them and let the MIND control in sync with the body. ...ie..let your body go where your mind takes it by not letting the body divert the mind Yog is union with God, and this is done by working with Mind and Body in order to direct the soul/atma.....since we are just Mind, Body and Soul. This is what I mean that positioning your body both correctly and uniformly will also let the energy flow uniformly. When this happens then the vibrating motions are still felt but it is more the linear flowing that should be happening and not physical jerks whereby your "stillness" is interrupted. It's common for very unbalanced prana to throw bodies up in air and sideways or keep knocking their still stance.. ... we seriously don't want to experience any of this. So the idea is to be in physical sehaj and balance from early on. now I'm sounding like that I'm trying to sell the science of yoga that I practice :)

ThIs shabad line is hugely misunderstood. ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥ Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥ - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233|| Is Kabeer ji saying that consuming bhang, fish and wine is a ritual ?? I don't think so......but may be some do...... I personally understand that he is talking about those guys that see the dancing whores whilst consuming those aphrodisiacs and then indulge in the low life stuff. Muslims, especially the Bengalis really enjoy the hash, fish and wine because they FIRMLY believe the items to be aphrodisiacs that can enhance their dirty pleasures. On top of that they like to keep those mouthfuls of red paan. He is referring to these filthy mortals that indulge very heavily in these activities especially a few months before their hajj or ramadan THEN what happens ??...................They all go on a guilt trip and try to make up their goodness during Ramadan where they will be FASTING, going HAJJ pilgrimage and doing their face east RITUALS...etc..... HOWEVER, no matter what they do or how many fasts they keep... they will still go to hell because their intentions were as if to 'dirty up' deliberately and then clean up for forgiveness.

This is mostly when the prana energy is balancing and aligning. The distribution of the prana/chi is very irregular in us manmukhs because of so many blocked energy channels. When these type of complete involuntary movements come then you should try to overcome them by continuing and being persistent in my opinion....I say this because anytime I have experienced these--->>>usually results in moving to a higher next stage. However, if you pull back, then you may start stepping down a level or two. Yoga and postural asanas are VERY useful in helping minimize blocked energy flows and helping one's progress. and I gave personally found sitting upright, back straight, completely centered help me dramatically..... and this should also help if one goes towards very deep stages of sunn samadhi This is slightly different and not so "involuntary"....since it's the "emotions" that help induce such a state. Nevertheless, it is one of "jor" and power that can help the strong discipline minded...... Good on you man...this is the same spiritual strength required in ghatka and martial arts to bring out hidden physical strengths and energies. It is still 'meditative' because you are focusing inner emotions and energies directly into strength.......this is exactly what real kung-fu meditation is about.

I would seriously suggest you do some hardcore silent jap and try feel the moons energy like the waves of the sea do. You can absorb lots of good energies from the natural sources around you. When proximity and distances are good such that visual clarity can be observed, then the intensity of good/truthful energies can increase in magnitude.

I know about the black hooded ones you mention. I call them the shadow people and I believe these are the same jams mentioned in gurbani.

Raagmala ji, Yes, the charitars are unrelated to the shabad and are in completely different contexts. .........your understanding is correct and that approach in attitude is of benefit to all of us. You can come back to the same shabad a year later and you shall be able to dwell even deeper. But I agree that it is desires of tongue and also desires of lower down genitalia/sexual promises/demands/needs...etc. On the surface they may appear similar, but in NO way does gurbani ever contradict. If I happen to come across something and there does seem some contradiction, then it's ALWAYS my own shortcoming and self created problem. For eg. I'm sure we have all come across the shabad where Guru Nanak ji praises woman and explains that man is born from woman and then he marries/consummates with woman...... ਭੰਡਿ ਜੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਨਿੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਮੰਗਣੁ ਵੀਆਹੁ ॥ Bẖand jammī▫ai bẖand nimmī▫ai bẖand mangaṇ vī▫āhu. From woman, man is born; within woman, man is conceived; to woman he is engaged and married. Sadly, this shabad is again wrongly used to create more duality by wrong interpretations by masses................In this shabad, Guru ji is praising woman and actually if you go even spiritually deeper, he is in fact praising feminine maya itself, since gurmukh can only be created and transformed when born in maya... BUT only the TRUE AKAL PURAKH is without woman or maya/ since he was forever the TRUTH and didn't need any transforming from maya. (I'm not going to go off topic here) But the point I'm making is that "How can Guruji praise woman in one and then disregard or pull out negatives in the other??" IMPOSSIBLE-- Guru NEVER contradicts because TRUTH can never contradict itself. Another example of what we see nowadays..........What are some major qualities that make a good lawyer lets say ??.. It' always a lawyer who pulls out and highlights Contradictions in some witness testimony or statement.........WHY? because lawyer can prove to the judge that the witness is somehow contradicting, then the judge/jury know and will be certain that such statement MUST be deviating away from the Truth. Since, they know in back of their minds that truth cannot contradict itself. Thus the witness has been exposed, the deviation away from truth of the matter has been confirmed......and there you go, decision made ........SO, it's pretty Simple really----->TRUTH can never contradict. If we remember this simple rule and apply it to gurbani, we would all understand it much better. Chariters and lust are a different ball game to SGGS gurbani. Gurbani is direct spiritual guidance....I know some younger Sikhs won't get this or understand. There are major misconceptions amongst Sikhs that lust is essential for procreation, so we all need a little bit of this vice for arousal and all that crap!..........absolute nonsense, because real spiritually elated and Waheguru connected couples will still consummate, they don't go brahmacharya. But their act does not have an ounce of lust, it will be an act of worship, whereby they embrace and connect with the god-atma in each other with pure love and pure truth.

I seriously can't explain it that easily. It's like you have to feel it.. I had just been doing simran for a few hours and was feeling quite elevated and lightweight and then I logged on here and saw this topic, looked at the shabad.........and all I can say is that I felt it immediately. (Sometimes, the fog in front of our eyes just clears up!) As Bhai Gurdas ji .."satguru Nanak pargataya, mitti dhundh(fog) jag chanan hoa" I was chatting with someone the other day, and we both confirmed that bani's depths keep getting more clearer the more abyiaas you do. ..Besides, the message and meaning I put up their above is what it says to ""me"" at this very moment of where I am. That's what gurbani is about and it speaks to each of us if we listen carefully... Just like the same hukamnaama will have completely different messages and meanings for the whole sangat! There are always a few meaning on the surface, but there are also more ddeper meanings that go deeper and deeper....and these always move away from directions of dualities and physical/maya properties to sukham/subtle aspects.

It's talking about Desires.......(that's what I see) One may be dictating or encouraging a desire(woman)the woman quality within us... and the animal quality(hunter) ..goes hunting outside to satisfy this desire. Guys...this is deeper than you think. It is the BOTH the woman and man qualities that WE possess.....that Guruji is referring to. Desires--->Tongue-->taste--->sexual as well...which is why it goes on to discuss modesty, purity and honor.........see below ਮਃ ੧ ॥ Mėhlā 1. First Mehl: ਰੰਨਾ ਹੋਈਆ ਬੋਧੀਆ ਪੁਰਸ ਹੋਏ ਸਈਆਦ ॥ Rannā ho▫ī▫ā boḏẖī▫ā puras ho▫e sa▫ī▫āḏ. Women have become advisors, and men have become hunters. ਸੀਲੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਸੁਚ ਭੰਨੀ ਖਾਣਾ ਖਾਜੁ ਅਹਾਜੁ ॥ Sīl sanjam sucẖ bẖannī kẖāṇā kẖāj ahāj. Humility, self-control and purity have run away; people eat the uneatable, forbidden food. ਸਰਮੁ ਗਇਆ ਘਰਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਪਤਿ ਉਠਿ ਚਲੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ Saram ga▫i▫ā gẖar āpṇai paṯ uṯẖ cẖalī nāl. Modesty has left her home, and honor has gone away with her. ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚਾ ਏਕੁ ਹੈ ਅਉਰੁ ਨ ਸਚਾ ਭਾਲਿ ॥੨॥ Nānak sacẖā ek hai a▫or na sacẖā bẖāl. ||2|| O Nanak, there is only One True Lord; do not bother to search for any other as true. ||2|| read it very carefully... The 1st line can easily be read on the surface. BUT think what you are doing when reading as such ???....You are reading in further duality of the duality we already live in.. NOTE-Guru NANAK Ji's shabads very rarely talk in exoteric duality, except when he is praising. They are mostly Esoteric and inwardly directed to each and every one of us and the nutty minds we possess! Your MIND -->enveloped in the feminine MAYA-->this is the ->she/the woman. Hunter--->animal instinct---all about getting what you desire, ...you search for satisfaction to quench thirst of desires..desires of tongue...which also lead to desires of genitalia......so when Guruji has used male/female--->also implies sexual desire and sexual hunger as well as hunger/desire of tongue. You have to note that the TONGUE and genitalia are the TWO organs that are single, and in the middle of our dualistic bodies..(we have 2 arms,hands,eyes,ears, nostrils..etc..) But TONGUE is ONE and when one can learn to control carnal desires by using it to JAP the ONE name, then the dishonorable sexual/lower down energies get transformed as well to purer and higher energies.. (it is fact that one who can control cravings of tongue/taste.. chocolate, sweets etc also has very little problem controlling carnal desires So what is the last line saying ?? Well, Guruji is saying that your mind, your instincts, will send you around sniffing and biting trying to find that ultimate desire.......we foolishly know that we need something to quench this unknown thirst... It's unknown because whatever we find, consume and enjoy.....we are still NEVER satisfied..... WHY?? because what the Mind is really in search for is the Jyot Saroop, ...the TRUTH ..the Sach itself......and we don't even know it and will waste our whole life consuming everything we think tastes good. ONLY the SACH is what we SHOULD BE HUNTING FOR......Nothing else ! my answer-->the tuk is nothing about women being desires or blaming the kalyug age we live in. When you really love and have True prem for Akaal Purakh, then you don't care if the light is from the moon or sun, whether it is dark or day, whether you are born in kalyug age or not, because you should be thankful you have benn given this ONE chance to come out of lakh chaurasi.

You need to clarify who is property and where is this implied ? What is a son ?...what is a heir ?? who's heir does the woman's son become ?....what about daughter ?? When would a father give away a son ? have you seen this ?.... was he gay ?? You said ....... "Father giving away the bride was to signify that women were never independent and were always under the 'guardianship' of men - passed from guardianship of the father to the husband" ...........WHAT makes you think that this is the ONLY reason ?.......what about family ??...what about heritage ???...what about clan trade ???...what about surnames??? ....why don't married wives continue to keep father's surname ?? ......................DO you understand what I'm getting at here ???............you need to see the whole picture.. ..........You need to ask yourself 'where does your own father's surname come from ??' I'm sure you have an idea of what the origins of common English names like Potter, Smith, Mason, ...Taylor/tailor are and where they would come from ?.......It's more or less the same principles in every race. If you can't see this WHOLE layout that makes a family tree which are similar worldwide, no matter what colour or creed, then you won't understand that ''guardianship'' is not the SOLE reason of why father of the bride exists. ****Forgot to add....Yes, there are some races that don't use family names/clan names as identities and these are also the same races where incest exists.(I'm not going to name any of these). These same bunch of people marry and fornicate with brothers, sisters, first cousins, second cousins...... In sikhi, marriage and fornicating with first and second cousins is incest.

Handing the palla over by the father is the SAME as giving away the daughter as ''father of the bride'' I think we should understand the reasoning of woman walking whilst holding the palla which symbolises the new bond formed by father giving his daughter away. This has nothing to do with who is dominant and who is who's b**ch. (is it about a dog on a leash??) We need some maryada for pre-marriage knowledge to be hammered in to couples. They MUST understand how sacred the lava are and exactly who's jyot merges into whom? The couple DO NOT merge their jyot into each other in the ceremony and neither is it about 2 souls become ONE. ......It is about 2 souls or 2 jyots MERGING TOGETHER into the ONE AKAL PURAKH JYOT. TWO souls circumambulating to enter into the ONE-WAHEGURU.. So don't get it mixed up with ceremonies from other faiths where couples join in matrimony whereby GOD is WITNESS. .....because this is clearly not the case in sikhi. Guru Ram Das ji composed the four lavan and Guru Arjan Dev ji and Mata Ganga ji were the first to be married with this ceremony. Guruji set the example himself and today we have clever clogs who think they can tamper with the sacred ceremony because they feel they have more equal right concerns than a Sikh Guru. Are we Sikhs, if we feel we can correct our Gurus ?

Listen guys..............Don't give this guest any entertainment of wasting your valuable time. It's the same dhunda clan trolling various forums with aliases.

There is so much different stuff about colours and lights in meditation that it can get quite confusing. My own understanding and little conclusions are that all the colours of spectrum will come and go as part of the kundalini process. The idea is to just let them pass and not stop, or just pass through them as if you are going through different coloured tunnels. Think of Gurmantar as the driving force taking you through and hold on to the this. If you do this and hold gurmantar, then most of these should pass through quite quickly(days/weeks) but when you get to purple/violet...it should get a little calmer and steady.

Good stuff guys! I also think that there are more tastes of amrit....It starts with saas saas simran and then you get advanced one like Kabir jI's shabad that comes directly from higher chakras. Gurbani mentions 36 different tastes ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਾਉ ਏਕੁ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੧॥ Cẖẖaṯīh amriṯ bẖā▫o ek jā ka▫o naḏar kare▫i. ||1|| The thirty-six flavors of ambrosial nectar are in the Love of the One Lord; they are tasted only by one who is blessed by His Glance of Grace. The 2nd one (as mentioned above) ... is somewhat immediate, different but not more intense....(you can't quantify it..it's not at all like saying -one is like one sugar spoon and the other is like 10 spoons) It was Sat that told me about the jugtee of how to get the 2nd one by focusing dhyaan on naad and raising it high.... The key difference that I found was that 1) you actually had control, in the sense you could activate at will,.. once your consciousness and surti was elevated to that level.. there are many references in gurbani about drinking amrit, but if we look at this one, again by Guru Nanak ji... ਊਪਰਿ ਕੂਪੁ ਗਗਨ ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰਾ ॥ Ūpar kūp gagan panihārī amriṯ pīvaṇhārā. The Well is high up in the Tenth Gate; the Ambrosial Nectar flows, and I drink it in Doing a little deeper vichaar, it tells me that there is an amrit in a well,..which in context is saying there is a specifc spot where one can GO to and drink the amrit at will. To me personally, this is reference to the jugtee briefly mentioned. 2) I also found that at times, all I had to do was just hear some gurbani or kirtan and then it would be immediate...To me, this was a major explanation of why gurbani is called 'Amrit Bani'... I haven't been at that elevated level recently, but we have to wash,, wash,,wash...wash.... our filth with that amrit. Amrit is part of the journey and we all have that filth.... So go on Bhagat...get that washing !! lol......Prabh is blessing you with the opportunity. When it happens,,...you definitely do start doubting yourself and thinking if it's just imagination.....I even got to a stage where I thought the tasting was happening every time I hear some music . so what I did was...listened to other music and to see if it activated or not...AND it didn't....ONLY with gurbani and gurmantar jap. Therefore, my conclusion of ''amrit bani' was even stronger. And for those on the forum that doubt dasam bani--->>Quite simply, you can ALL find out for yourself what bani is amrit bani and what is kachi.

no worries,..your maaf ;) lol

The shabad above is very deeply mystical. One will ONLY understand it completely in its entirety..after they have experienced Waheguru themselves...ie, when the dasam duar opens and Waheguru opens the door to nijh mahal. -->>waheguru darshan...waheguru parkash... You can look around and search for the arths, but they will mostly all be diverting from the truth in one way or the other...........Why do I say that ??.. -Because quite simply, when one experiences the whole Sach and the whole Truth.-->then there is no right or wrong way to describe it.. The shabad is purely esoteric and is not about astrology. I would be surprised to see some arths that would cover more than 65% of the abyaas practice it refers to..because those who have experienced the 100%, would be unable to put it in words...............And like I said,..there can't be no wrong arth or a right one either! I can give you a few pointers from yoga.....left eye/right eye.,,.left side/right side...ida/pingala... are represented by Moon and Sun. But also in Gurbani,,..depending on the shabad's context, the Sun represents heat and agan which is lower part of body, whereas the cooler moon is head upwards....our poison(bikh) from our doing becomes manifest lower down and the cooling amrit from the top completely eradicates it and changes it into rays of light emerging instead....Some of this is what Guru Nanak iji is pointing at in the shabad.,,,,but he is also describing his jyot being completely immersed in waheguru. at the same time. One can only get their surti to rise all the way up to dasam duar, when the central nadi-the 'Sukhmana', is fully open. ...This only opens when the surti from left and right side becomes central... That is just the basic, however,..it is hard enough!....then follow much more efforts where one has to keep the jeevan jach in line with walking away from duality.................But that's not all,...because many self conflicts inside yourself between your own ego and atma..etc..also have to be addressed and dealt with....and this becomes an ongong battle with the 5 chor. Sun into moon is also about going into that line in the middle of duality. We have to remember that one can not attain waheguru darshan by technique alone..The Sikh has to Transform into Gurmukh....The simran automatically starts to do this in many unbelievable ways. Duality has to be conquered towards becoming advait(non-dual).............But you can never become completely advait until you get immersed in the Satch-in totality. While in maya world, a Sikh has to walk on that very very thin line in the middle of duality--->which is why dasam patshah gave and showed us the double edged khanda and it's very sharp cutting edge-->>which defines the razor thin line that the Sikh treads on. Das's post above is very good. Astrology is itself a study of the astronomy on our own selves......Gurbani tells you in many places that the whole universe and it's master(GOBIND)..is within your own body. This then means that what we do inside us, will also affect the world and universe outside,...and vice versa. Das made some interesting points about our body correlations with the whole cosmos...and some of them I hadn't given much though previously, but there is also significance of 5 digits on each side of our body on hands and feet....the 5 senses. the karam indries..the gyan indries... The 4 fingers with 3 phalanges each(4x3=12 again)...and there is also the same kind of miri-piri aspects with having a pair of each which represent duality of physical/spiritual...destined/karmic....etc.. There must be so much more,...and I've only just picked the above up here and there and with my own experiences-->conclusions.......but like Das says,, it's very difficult to find an astrologer who is close to the truth in reality because they wouldn't be charging the money! But I also repeat the same ....about not getting tied up trying to find astrological conclusions in gurbani.. To be honest, you have to find them yourself by going inside and having an internal dialogue with yourself. This way you also find that it helps your simran, because one big drawback in meditation is we sit down and the internal dialogue starts instead of jap. Therefore, try and do as much internal dialogue throughout the day and arrive at the conclusions as well,..as it will help you become more humble as well...But the main point is that in this way, you will have more free dhyan freed up to help put focus on gurmantar.

I know,...it's real awkward sometimes ! I usually have to put them onto notepad 1st-->sort them.-->then,transfer to word.

Command should be followed , yes... but there are many pointers in gurbani of when one is saved from the jamdhoots coming to get him/her. There are many stages after one gets naam and start doing serious naam kamayee... It is also been known that the Guru's sevak will witness jamdoots running away from him when he is in some physical vicinity of these dark souls !..

Gyani ji tells the account of when naamdev was asked to jap allah instead of ram ram. Remember that before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji a mantra was something given to the sevak by his ustad or guru-->that's why it is called GURu-Mantra So, this was Namdev's response,.....that he is going to jap what was INSTRUCTED by his guru, to him, at the time ---->Gyani ji clarifies that this doesn't mean allah or any other name is not on par with your own mantar,,Because for the sevak who wants to get brahmgyan,..he must jap what is instructed by his teacher Guru(gurmantra). Don't get confused that gur-mantra always means 'waheguru', .....No,... only for Sikhs and as per Bhai Gurdas ji's vaaran referencing Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji(Guru), is our gurmantra 'waheguru'.

Gurmantar is what identifies the little practical difference between simran and meditation....although, Goal is the same in every practice.

Gurbani mentions the claypot ''ghaghar'' many times.......The embellishing,washing of the pots body doesn't affect the water inside does it ?

Good work

I'm a strong believer of energies....and there is no doubt that on full moon, which is when cycle phase is complete and there are optimum distances between sun, earth and moon alignments.....that energies can be Magnified. This means both positive and negative, which is why you have evil/darkness/horror movies ..etc... associated with full moons but you can also have the opposite spiritual ascensions getting magnified......This is why one has potential to attain maximums in bhagti and meditation. Even Buddha was born on pooranmashi and nearly all of his great advances happened on the same moon ..including his death! My advice is to avoid negative atmospheres or confrontations because they will just make you dig more deeper, darker holes and focus on Waheguru instead. I've experienced these energies in many ways and not just in bhakti....so I would recommend you all to try it with utmost pyar. On the same note, women also have monthly cycles as per moon cycles and I remember that some study found that in very natural and harmonious parts of the world, they had their fertility peaks during the few days before and after full moons. ....It's just that nowadays we use so much artificial light instead of light from sun and moon that our biorhythms are all misaligned along with other qualities.