Lucky

​The deeper breaths are in earlier stage. The breath in more relaxed stage-when jap is purely internal ...then the breath gets very shallow-ie. movement of chest will be very slight but very slow at the same time. (At this stage HR will decrease - It can also be done at will by yogis)

Good question and I believe this is where a lot of weight is actually held. Personally, I feel that if you have a strategy of some sort that has some end factor or wish for worldly desire, then this can be or will be a spiritual hindrance. A gurmukh assured me and was pretty certain that I made progress in my simran a little more rapidly because my intentions were purely out of love, without any worldly wishes or desires. It was for approaching the path with a strong belief that this was the purpose of my birth, life and the breaths that I take. Only the dhan (wealth of naam) of where my breaths are spent is what I shall leave this illusion with. I know we have 'ardas'.. and people will argue ''what is ardas for then if I can't ask for peace, happiness,..job satisfaction, education..".....etc.. But then ask yourself "are you really walking in gurmat hukam or his bhana"? I know it's difficult to answer and I can't tell anyone what to wish or not wish for either. ....and love can't be forced- so you can't really force yourself to delve into simran because you want to prove you have love for God. You either have the deepest love through realization or you don't....-can't be bought or forced. He is antarjami and the inner-knower......My ardas is always for guidance, protection and shakti/power/energy in order to do his sift salah. I strongly ask in every ardas for 'forgiveness'.- forgiveness, for mistakes I maybe aware of and those that I may not. Along with this, I also ardas for greater awareness, so that I am able to see my own faults in order to accept them. (you wold be surprised just how many faults of your own can come before your very eyes, years and years later) It's the love that makes you walk in hukam and hukam is actually a stronger feeling of knowing you are walking in the Truth.... It's very difficult to explain this feeling of hukam............and because you know he is the antarjami, then you have more than enough faith that he will continually arrange the path in front of you. 24/7.. All he asks is that you try deal with daily battles of 5 dhoots.....do this, and he will take care of the rest and ensure you are fed and clothed. Maya is the illusion, we should focus and direct our energies to the purest sat or truth within. ...in doing so the illusion will take care of itself. That's my take on it... it may show ignorance and may not be the right one..... But that is what I feel at these moments of where I am in life. The future may well prove me wrong,

too right ...riddi siddis are peanuts compared to other stuff...They are essential and part of the package because it's all about mind control and connecting with energies. However, that's where it stops and you make sure you don't use them to inflate ego or get moh. Using the energy connections for self spiritual healing is absolutely fine in my opinion providing it is for self and you are not making gains from others.

lets not be getting the kachey into twists... We have to remember that the jap and gurmantar/mantar is just a technique to help get the "one-pointed awareness'' ਇਕ ਚਿਤਿ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਧਿਆਇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਲਾਇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਪਿਆਰੋ ॥ Ik cẖiṯ ik man ḏẖi▫ā▫e su▫āmī lā▫e parīṯ pi▫āro. With my consciousness centered, and my mind one-pointed, I meditate on my Lord and Master, with love and affection All about Ik chi-Ik mann The one-pointed mind is the goal for any method that we use because this is what can take you to the states of sunn Samadhi. The mind reaches samadhi when it attains a stage of one-pointed concentration, or absorption. Since mind and body are of one unity, if the mind reaches samadhi, the body will also attain sunn samadhi,. With using gurmantar, moolmantar, or any other mantar like har har, ram......the mind should be internally listening to the mantra without adding any extra commentary to the sounds; the only sound experienced within jap,should be the sound of the mantar itself rather than any internal talking. There should be no second dialogue, and we should not impose any internal thought words of comprehension. In fact, ..in any jap, there should not be any internal dialogue--the mental realm within should remain quiet. One-pointed concentration is what helps you get from the stage of just listening into the emptiness and bliss of the void.--->that's the only way the duar/door to Waheguru's sacha mahal will open. Gurbani tells us about sowing the seeds and cultivating...and this is very important, because I think even his grace will only follow when one starts to cultivate. Therefore, it doesn't matter what method of cultivation you use or what mantra, or if you use rosary, ring bells, play music, sing praises.......it's all about getting to that one-pointedness-->empty void->Samadhi. However, Gurmat tells us to not get wound up in the cultivation techniques of whether to use rosary, to count your chants, mantars....but to focus on 'dhyiana' aspects of yoga schools,,, which is why it overlaps with bhakti yoga using mantar and breathing pranayama together. Gurbani also tells us that our commodity is the Swaas....So it is the breath and one-pointed mind together that earns the wealth of naam.......With this in mind, I personally find it easier to merge breathing with gurmantar easier. But you can also do it with mool mantar providing you keep a joint pace with breath and mind jap.... speed up breathing->speed up moolmantar jap...OR slow down breath-->slow down moolmantar...........The idea is to keep the same number of breaths with cycles of moolmantar. ps..I just tried moolmantar jap this morning and it went quite well once I had set my own breaths/mantar cycle rate! ;)

well... my question really is... ''If you were out with your wife and waiting outside as your wife has just gone into a public washroom.....then a few seconds later your saw this bearded harnaam kaur enter .. and not knowing if she is a woman or not.....I'm sure you would be concerned! I've got nothing to say on this attention seeker of a person who is clearly using sikhi as a secondary basis for excuses and acceptance.........I believe she became Sikh after she had spent years of using hair removal products...She chose to become a Sikh and parade herself.. giving the impression she is abiding by Sikh rehat...... Then, I'm sure, she has broken her amrit and gone and done tattoos and shit.....so lets not give her anymore attention.

​Do you mean that they can't "strain" by doing heavy weights ??......would agree here. You know, they can't even risk to be 'constipated'....because that too can involve some 'straining' lol ;) Anyway, I think the trainers advice is usually to start off with cardio and gradually increase heart rate and then do weights......This way, the glycogen and energy stores go directly towards weight bearing muscles....plus - you should be warmed up before weights. I would suggest that anyone with HR and BP problems to at least do high intensity cardio about 3x/week.........Talk to a trainer so that you know how to monitor. Jaap and steady sehaj should help you 'lower' and calm your heart rate. -(I've measured mine to decrease by 20 beats/min quite easily) ....at the same time your breaths should become shallow and longer.

yeh, energies can be picked up by ''sense''

​oh no!!!!....don't start that one again :)

​Yes,..and with practice they can learn whether to trust/distrust and feel negative/positive intentions from other person.

​That's a very good point Chaz. Touching roof of mouth is what helps complete and initiate the energy cycles from navel upwards and back down again. I usually go straight into nasal breathing and silent simran....but if the focus is not too good or I'm not getting steady..then I just step back and start saas saas through mouth breathing.

Have you done it by breathing through mouth? This helps because if prana is way too unbalanced, ...then through the mouth can help offset this. It has been suggested that you initially start in this manner and then move into the comfortable and steady technique that you find suitable.

Good topic! It's all about Mind and energies............the telekinesis is just one skill that can be obtained.. It's interesting and eye opening when one tries to play with their own energies and try to redirect them. I always thought that the sukhmani sahib tuks about riddi sddis are their to tell us that these are just some of the 'confirmation nishanees/insignias' that are encountered on the prabh ka simran path. as long as you use them to feed the 5 dhuts....I think it's absolutely fine. I'm just amazed at the magnitude of energies that the guy created with only very short periods of focus!

​lol...........of course!

das, you can distinguish which thoughts are from atma and which are from Mind. The mind has to be conquered before it can find it's home. I can't understand how I could get to mool pachan the jyot saroop before 'mann jitey jagjeet''.. .. Maybe you can do it without,///but this is the only attempt I know. I spoke about "linear/sequential thoughts" and "sudden cluster" thoughts that arise and how I found that with increased simran I was getting more cluster thoughts. Sequential thoughts come from the mind racing from one image to another..and there is always some link. Whereas clustered thoughts just arrive completely at random and sometimes they may even be a sudden answer to any question (completely unrelated to knowledge of any sort) I'm not going to go into detail or throw myself into this topic at the moment because I seriously need all my energy for my person spirituality at the stages I'm facing. This will be my last post on this topic.

​I agree das.. I know that you were warning about getting stuck at 'surface' levels. Mind can lead us the wrong way but only if we let it run the show. We have a Soul/atma and Mind.,,,correct ?................I'm understanding that if we let Mind run the show over the soul, then---->>going towards Man-mat, but if we let the atma be the master over the mind instead(which is why simran is about stilling and controlling this charging mind)..--->>towards walking in pure hukam and gur-mat.

Both Das and Satkirin are correct in what they are saying but there is probably a slight misunderstanding. If I understood correctly, Das is talking about experiences and how they can affect our thinking and attitudes. To add to this... I should say that a whole lot of experiences for anyone on the spiritual path are there as diversions and can actually lead one AWAY from the Truth instead of towards it..yes, we shouldn't fool ourselves and it is all too easy. ......Noting, that riddi siddis are the most popular and usually first spiritual powers that can arise...and they can very easily lead one away from the divine truth instead of towards it. Just look at clairvoyants, crystal bowl gypsies, some magicians..etc.. So, I totally comprehend what Das is saying, but also remember that gurmat insists that one should keep entire focus on shabad, no matter what distractions come along the way... These instructions are to prevent our own downfalls. In sukhmani sahib, it clarifies that the gurmukh that is on the path gets the 'nishaanis' or ''insignias" of riddi sidd/occult powers, but he/she is ONLY to acknowledge them for development on not get fooled or trapped in them..... riddi siddi comes, acknowledge.....move on..sticking to shabad. On the other hand, I wholeheartedly, also comprehend what Satkirin is saying. I'm sure she is not being fooled or being led into opposite direction of truth......She is emphasizing her own thought process and her certainty that she believes and understands the universal consciousness and not about her experiences of verifying other realms or existence of eternal soul. As well as her own thought process, I think she has the right ''feeling'' and attitudes that are necessary for gurmat Jeevan jach....., and I think I can understand her frequency........and guys, we have to remember that she is a gori that has come into a completely different culture and faith through completely her own choice and not via yoga or anything. ...Just for this sort of huge transformation, one has to be more than certain that it shall lead them towards the Truth.....Therefore, I very much doubt that she has fallen into spiritual trappings that are in opposite direction to Truth. I feel she clearly understands that sikhi and doing 'sachey ki sift salah' is the manner to get to that sach (praising the truth to get to the truth)

​Of course it was!............remember the fear of bumping into groups of white thugs who would be out "paki-bashing" ? We have to remember the number of apney that got their heads kicked in coming home from work or got their little brown paypackets snatched by skinheads on a Friday evening.

shameful behavior...............Disgusts me and I couldn't even watch or listen to the abuse.

Like sudden jerks to nearly whole body ?.........yes, I had them a few times and my yoga instructor said that it is the undistributed/unbalanced prana energy. This is why I feel it is important to be maintaining straight posture and be evenly balanced in cross-legged lotus pose and throughout general day.

​Vibrations are a natural process towards good cultivation. ...You see, the smaller microcosmic channels have to first align and open up before the major meridians and central sukhmana. It is all the same thing as in Taoism, Buddhist meditation, Tibetan, india yoga....etc.....they call them the meridians,...the chi....the nadis These processes all lead to the beginning of kundalini awakening before the longer process of it rising will start. All the microcosmic channels/nadis that are opening and activating will be where 'rom rom' can be manifest further on. In gurmat , we don't worry about the visualization or pranayama techniques because Guruji has given us the gurmantar shabad to take us through all these. Therefore, it is important to NOT let the vibrations distract you from gurmantar jap. ...If they arise, just acknowledge and continue with jap. Some people feel them quite a bit in the palms, upper neck and chest areas, ..whereas others don't feel too much at all. ..Everyone is different according to where they are internally aligned and balanced. I've been told that anything above navel area is good, because it paves the way for sukhmana nadi. Just continue with jap and the vibrations will just take care of themselves............Personally, I only ever felt a few and just let them subside but the dominant ones have usually been navel, throat, 3rd eye, and the heat/sweats along the back.

Just to add, ...as I've mentioned about channeling sexual energies into spiritual energies on a couple of other threads earlier...... We can at many issues when considering the energies involved. In the case of women's monthly, ..a significant amount of subtle energy and physical energy gets channeled to the lower down areas. During these menstruating days, many yoga asanas aren't advised along with kriyas like "breath of fire".......At this time, the women's avastha becomes at a sort of standpoint or may even descend due to overriding from other psychological energies involved. It's only reasonable and understandable that spiritual activities may not be to optimum at this time.......this is nature, ..the laws of the universe.

​spot on ! Conserving or abstaining, channels the "ojas" (as i explained in other thread) towards other energies such as mental, physical and spiritual. We know how athletes, competitive sportsmen and even chess players are told to abstain before major events.

FIrstly, I understand that a 'brahmacharya' is the ultimate yogi that not only abstains, but actually has no kami thoughts either. You see, there is a huge difference between just abstaining or actually being brahmacharya. It's about semen and "ojas"..... and "ojas is the strong subtle energy within us that travels along the spinal fluids... therefore it can go anywhere from the lower mooldhar chakra up to the top crown chakra..However, we have to channel it, to make it rise, because the mind and panjj dhoots will automatically keep it lower down. The goal is not about abstaining, but the brahmachrya directs all this energy into Spiritual energy instead of sexual. The whole diversion of sexual energies into spiritual energies is a big deal and it's what the "moolabandha" or root lock in Kabirji's shabad is about. In yoga, this is a major goal but it is very misunderstood in the west, where they tend to mix the tantra,tantric and kamasutra.. into porn fantasires (I'm not going to go into this because these are separate topics themselves) Going back to the 'ojas"..which is the subtle energy....I would try and imagine it as the energy that gives you that ultimate joy,climax or orgasm (you can imagine how powerful this subtle energy can be).. and note that this experience cannot be physically quantified or measured in any way since it is completely subtle, except for the physical discharge of semen..... Now, let's also accept that there is no greater personal and joyful experience than an orgasm.......But let's also remember that this energy is the 'ojas' that is channeled down to the lower chakras where kundalini is dormant....Therefore, it is energy channeled in the opposite direction from the higher throat, third eye and dasam/crown chakras.....it's antagonistic from spiritual joy of union with God. The brahmacharya channels this kaam energy towards more perfect and genuine spiritual energy. He enjoys much greater experiences than orgasm with union and marriage to husband lord. The brahmacharya is the greatest 'soul bride' in gurbani. I mentioned about a person that simply abstains as being different to brahmacharya......you see a brahmachrya does not have his ojas transforming into semen, therefore he will never be having wet dreams. However, a person abstaining may end up having plenty of wet dreams if the mind is still having thoughts and sexual urges . ie. when he sees the odd pair of boobs or someone desirable. REMEMBER that ''Thoughts'' can be satogun, rajogun or tamogun because they are still maya.....and these subtle thoughts and urges are enough to promote physiological production and discharge of semen. It's very well documented in the west that people who abstain. very often end up having other personality disorders, psychological problems, social and physical difficulties. etc. They can end up very repressed and sexually frustrated, which in itself is understandable since their abstinence leads renders them unable to fulfill lower sexual desires.... it's like trying to hold this energy within, dampen it, mask it and suppress it.....only leads to levels of internal frustration... This abstaining does NOT help them physically or spiritually in any way. When anyone suppresses any sort of energy, then the energy will always find another route to break through. We mannukhs suffer these same consequences if we try and suppress different emotions, since they only lead to physical ailments and illnesses. Your question of whether any one has experienced the effects of abstaining for their meditation progress or experience ? Well, that is slightly difficult to answer because it isn't a simple yes or no.....You see, you learn and get to a point where any bhog with your partner becomes a divine experience and then No, It doesn't affect you or dampen you spiritually.....in fact it makes you more spiritually elevated. ....Again,.. very difficult to explain.. but it's like enjoying meditating and simran because you are experiencing the God that is inside your own body and experiencing God inside your partner's body. However, if your intentions are more kaam, perverse or purely physical,..then you will feel some degree of guilt or anti-climax afterwards along with a spiritual dip. Most people verify that excessive semen discharge leads to a major decline in amrit rass and also inhibits further nadis from opening up. The key is in having the initial motivation to channel as much internal energy towards spiritual ascension. Then. kaami thoughts, or intentions occurring in day to day life, will slowly begin to diminish. Seriously, you don't have to force yourself to look the other way or try forcing thoughts out of your mind. Neither do you need to suppress them, as that just leads to the common abstinence problem mentioned. I reckon it kind of comes naturally with increased meditation, just as desires for taste of tongue diminish, the desires for possessions and desires for power...then the carnal desires also follow route and begin to fade away.

Ibrute ji, .....There should be no strain ! The Idea is to have your "attention' at that point in the beginning and not to be trying to hard to physically focusing there. From my experience only.....I would suggest that you imagine a screen in front of you when your eyes are closed. Then you can even put your finger at the point to start with, which is just slightly above the middle point of eyebrows or where women usually have their bindi. Then, imaging you are standing at that point and step back very slowly and comfortably as if going inwards and behind your eyes,(At this point your eye muscles may move slightly and that is ok )..........Then, just put your attention right where that finger spot is and you shouldn't really feel any eye muscle motion. You will find that the eyes will actually become 'completely still" very near there and bingo!!.......that's exactly where you want them. The ''stillness' and focus is the key that will lead to progress and it should all be in a relaxed and effortless mode. ...Give this a try and see how you get on in the meantime..... But if you are still having difficulty trying to put your attention in one particular area whilst maintaining some stillness,.. then I can give you a few more further tips to get some practice.

Excellent post Das!! Appreciate the length and effort that has been inserted.