Lucky

I'm surprised that you think it takes a high avastha to be able to dampen all your kaam temptations. It's not that difficult you know?...try it. Keep your head down, avoid unneccesary eye contact with any female, keep jap reverberating within and see how you go.

What sort of sounds are they ?

Yes, just keep going! The earlier sounds can be both sides, but when the naam sound begins to manifest....they say that it starts on the right. This is more of a nishani, so that you know you have the correct one to focus on. But, the earlier sounds before naam shabad can sometimes be on the left or the right.

Sat, veer, I can tell you that they do change forms in front of you. They are made up of energy and consciousness, and these forms are like dragon heads, elves, insect type with human type limbs....in fact, you know those movies like lord of the rings and some of those old paintings and books with this kind of 'fantasy' stuff- well trust me, the authors and painters got these ideas from somewhere. I don't want to sound like I'm warning, or judging, because it's a sensitive issue, especially when it's a grandparent. But if I don't say what I think I know.. then I would feel guilty. You have to remember the story of Ajamal and Narayan. They are a number of shabads in gurbani that give the messages, but the main thing to extract is that Ajamal was a no-gooder and paapi but someone told him to name his son Narayan. Anyway, when it was near his death time, he too was seeing jamdoots and demons that were getting ready to take him away. In this fear, he was crying out his son's name ''Narayan '..which also means Lord God. He was saying it with such love, that the 'God-soul' in his innocent son, heard him. ...and he was saved... the jamdoots scarpered.! In one of Naamdev's shabad, he confirms that Ajamal got to baikhunt- which is one of the Devlok heavens. (You are out of lakh-chaurasi when at dev-lok, but your not fully mukht) Seriously, no time to waste, we must always encourage to jap the naam. Gurbani shows us that it's never too late. Wahe-Guru

Encourage japp as much as possible, by this, I mean physcial japp by as many of the sangat around. I know a lot of people say to have sukhmani sahib or gurbani playing 24/7...but in addition to this I strongly suggest attempts to do physical jap. It just takes that ONE instance where the surti can attach to it completely like a magnet. You know yourself from experience, that when the naad begins to resonate, it's not after any specific number of japs or any thing to do with the length of time you jap,,...but it just happens when that instance occurs....like 2 magnets meeting at their poles...It could just be that split second or two..but that's all it takes. Couple this with the suggestion of ''apan kya nanaka apey fir jaap''.... Is also a very good idea.

I agree, the tuks mentioned are mistranslated with misconstrued messages. ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥ Je raṯ lagai kapṛai jāmā ho▫e palīṯ. If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted. ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ Jo raṯ pīvėh māṇsā ṯin ki▫o nirmal cẖīṯ. Those who suck the blood of human beings-how can their consciousness be pure? ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਾ ਦਿਲਿ ਹਛੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ॥ Nānak nā▫o kẖuḏā▫e kā ḏil hacẖẖai mukẖ leho. O Nanak, chant the Name of God, with heart-felt devotion. ਅਵਰਿ ਦਿਵਾਜੇ ਦੁਨੀ ਕੇ ਝੂਠੇ ਅਮਲ ਕਰੇਹੁ ॥੧॥ Avar ḏivāje ḏunī ke jẖūṯẖe amal karehu. ||1|| Everything else is just a pompous worldly show, and the practice of false deeds. ||1|| I'm dare not insult any ddt's intelligence.....But the above tuk is from the shabad that relates to the likes of Malik Bhago. Some shabads can give deeper spiritual messages with having both esoteric and exoteric layers, but with the couple mentioned above, I'm finding it hard to see any multiple layers at the moment.

This sounds like a method of hiding away from the issue. According to my understanding, one will NOT conquer the mind by trying to hide from any of the 5 dhut. The strength is in the one that approaches and slays the dhut out of the way, not the one that dodges them The problem is not the flocks of women around, the problem is the weak man's Mind and it's TEMPTATIONS. The strength and purity is in the one that can walk through the red-light district of Amsterdam, totally unaffected or tempted and in doing so, maintains his innermost purity throughout the walk ! Guru Nanak jis says to be the 'Lotus' that rises above the deep muddy waters to get across. The quoted is saying to make the waters less muddier and deeper instead. You know that Gurbani uses the lotus metaphor for many specific reasons, and one of them is because a lotus only grows and blossoms in muddy waters!

I understand that there are so so many of them , that no-one can really tell you the numbers. However, I did find that there were a few things in that book that can mislead someone,...(well-they mislead me!). Especially the way it spoke about gurmat anhad shabad being different to yoga.....blah blah...and something about there being 2 dasam duars! Yes, the same as above.. ALL cosmic universe is one in which all exists. You get plenty in hospitals!........But yes, a lot of people see these entities near death. I also understand that a lot of them move away and to some distance when they come near a soul that has stronger divine element compared to theirs... or when near higher avastha gurmukhs.

After seeing some discussions on the other threads about atma, soul and God within us and God in Gurus, maybe some further discussion is helpful. Kabirji says the same thing about how we rant on and on about our Mind and soul, whilst at the same time using this mind's intellect in doing so! ਜੀਉ ਏਕੁ ਅਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਸਰੀਰਾ ॥ Jī▫o ek ar sagal sarīrā. There is One Soul, and it pervades all bodies. ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਕਬੀਰਾ ॥੯॥੧॥੩੬॥ Is man ka▫o rav rahe kabīrā. ||9||1||36|| Kabeer dwells upon this Mind. ||9||1||36|| Jio/atma/soul/ are the same thing. These last pangtis (the jio ek ar sagal sareera) come after a number that are contemplating the MIND and questioning the mann. they say........ ਸਨਕਾਦਿਕ ਨਾਰਦ ਮੁਨਿ ਸੇਖਾ ॥ Sankāḏik nāraḏ mun sekẖā. Even sages like Sanak and Naarad, and the thousand-headed serpent, ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤਨ ਮਹਿ ਮਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਪੇਖਾ ॥੩॥ Ŧin bẖī ṯan mėh man nahī pekẖā. ||3|| did not see the mind within the body. ||3|| ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਕੋਈ ਖੋਜਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥ Is man ka▫o ko▫ī kẖojahu bẖā▫ī. Anyone can search for this mind, O Siblings of Destiny. ਤਨ ਛੂਟੇ ਮਨੁ ਕਹਾ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੪॥ Ŧan cẖẖūte man kahā samā▫ī. ||4|| When it escapes from the body, where does the mind go? ||4|| ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜੈਦੇਉ ਨਾਮਾਂ ॥ Gur parsādī jaiḏe▫o nāmāʼn. By Guru's Grace, Jai Dayv and Naam Dayv ਭਗਤਿ ਕੈ ਪ੍ਰੇਮਿ ਇਨ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਜਾਨਾਂ ॥੫॥ Bẖagaṯ kai parem in hī hai jānāʼn. ||5|| came to know this, through loving devotional worship of the Lord. ||5|| ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਨਹੀ ਆਵਨ ਜਾਨਾ ॥ Is man ka▫o nahī āvan jānā. This mind does not come or go. ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਗਇਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥੬॥ Jis kā bẖaram ga▫i▫ā ṯin sācẖ pacẖẖānā. ||6|| One whose doubt is dispelled, knows the Truth. ||6|| ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖਿਆ ਕਾਈ ॥ Is man ka▫o rūp na rekẖ▫i▫ā kā▫ī. This mind has no form or outline. ਹੁਕਮੇ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੂਝਿ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੭॥ Hukme ho▫i▫ā hukam būjẖ samā▫ī. ||7|| By God's Command it was created; understanding God's Command, it will be absorbed into Him again. ||7|| ਇਸ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਕੋਈ ਜਾਨੈ ਭੇਉ ॥ Is man kā ko▫ī jānai bẖe▫o. Does anyone know the secret of this mind? ਇਹ ਮਨਿ ਲੀਣ ਭਏ ਸੁਖਦੇਉ ॥੮॥ Ih man līṇ bẖa▫e sukẖ▫ḏe▫o. ||8|| This mind shall merge into the Lord, the Giver of peace and pleasure. ||8|| Kabirji is talking about the mind He is saying "jio ek sagal sareera" because of what we do with our MIND.... You see we all say there is One God, Christians say it, jews say it, muslims say it.... The whole world around Kabirji is talking about the ONE God....just like they do today....but that's it...All talk , chatter,... discuss..but no real uddam or efforts to find Him. All using their Mind's intellect to discuss the ONE parbrahm.......he is everywhere, in everything...but that's it !......how about experiencing ? Remember that in gurbani it also mentions a few times....we are like different pots of clay with the same water inside.......just differently decorated on the outside but the inside has the same jal ....yet our mind's attach that same Water/Ji/ God/atma soul to the body and repeatedly discuss...discuss.... and wonder where is mind from, where does it go......etc... In light of this, Kabirji is telling us 'WAKE UP'' because that same God-soul/water is right inside you. No good just discussing....Do bhakti and GO WITHIN, find him right inside yourself. We can carry on discussing until life end, but it is NO USE unless you make the effort to find that SAME God-soul that is INSIDE ALL of us. God SOUL is very close and within us but by going around discussing and doing Mann vichaar of saying "Yes of course God is inside all of us" we are attaching and associating the Mind to the outer maya with discussions....which leads to EGO. ...We have to find ways of dissociating with this instead. By associating we make a distinctive line showing MIND is separate from ATMA,,,and this makes the duality....the same Ego. Simply put ,GOD + EGO= us individuals...manukhs,.. the pots with the water If You go WITHIN and start doing bakti, then slowly you will start to merge bit by bit and in doing so, begin to shed that EGO, layer by layer.. then in simple math......... GOD - (minus) EGO = God, pure atma, sachkhand...where no ego or identity of mind remains. The mind is jyot saroop. I said above that Kabirji's "Ji-o ek sagal sarira" is a WAKE-UP to us since, he is saying Kao-rav rahe..to dwell upon this Ji-o Ik in our body, rather than discussing the mind as in the prior pangtis. ਜੀਉ ਏਕੁ ਅਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਸਰੀਰਾ ॥ Jī▫o ek ar sagal sarīrā. There is One Soul, and it pervades all bodies. ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਕਬੀਰਾ ॥੯॥੧॥੩੬॥ Is man ka▫o rav rahe kabīrā. ||9||1||36|| Kabeer dwells upon this Mind. ||9||1||36|| With regards to this wake up, he finishes the shabad on this line and continues with raag gwaarayree with... ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ॥ Gauree Gwaarayree: ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਏਕ ਨਾਮ ਜੋ ਜਾਗੇ ॥ Ahinis ek nām jo jāge. Those who are awake to the One Name, day and night - ਕੇਤਕ ਸਿਧ ਭਏ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Keṯak siḏẖ bẖa▫e liv lāge. ||1|| rahā▫o. many of them have become Siddhas - perfect spiritual beings - with their consciousness attuned to the Lord. ||1||Pause|| How are they awake ?? don't their bodies sleep ??.. Yes, the bodies sleep, but the water inside the pot is always jagat, The Atma soul is untouchable and remains the active force of the universe, no matter what it is cased in. They have merged their Mann Chit - mind consciousness with the EK Atma-soul inside them. And How would they do that ? answer - Bhakti, just like perfect siddhas.

Not sure why you guys complicate things and cause confusion..... In the most simplest explanation that I can give - First,..We ALL have a soul/atman, this is the pure God soul in all of us.,...it is the drop of the ocean...these same atmas, make up the complete paramatma. HOWEVER, we are here because it is all the game of the MIND..(the mann) Our mind's are engrossed in maya,...controlled by 5 dhut......not listening to the Atma. You see, we have a choice whereby we can let the MIND be the master of the soul and let it run free and run the conduct...which makes us manmukh and in complete man-mat. OR We can make effort to still that running Mind and try to 'merge' it with the ATMA. This is when the ATMA/PARAMATMA becomes the master of the Mind instead. It then runs all the conduct and one is in gur-mat. So, the goal for conducting ourselves is to always keep trying to let the Atma/Soul be the master of the mind. But we have to make this same decision using the maya enveloped mind ......so, the REAL IDEA is to............. .. keep trying to merge and merge this Mind with Atma ..so that it all becomes ONE and the SAME. This is the 'merging' gurbani talks about. This is how the MIND recognizes it' origin(mool) and becomes Jyot Saroop...(Mann tu Jyot Saroop hai, apna mool pehchaan) To conclude,.. understand that YES, we all have the same ATMA-God soul within us. BUT the GURUS had their MIND'S that COMPLETELY merged in their ATMA, Their Minds did not have a single ounce of influence from Maya or worldly body.... which is why they could just sit and smile on a hot plate because their ATMA was untouchable. When Mind is in Maya, that is when it feels pain,joy,sadness, anxiety, worry..... When Mind is One and the Same merged with Atma,, then it feels none of these, because it is dissociated from body and it's maya surroundings.. Sitting on a hot plate is no pain or torture whatsoever because the atma is unharmed. We have our Mind's slightly merged here and there, or just a little divine feeling of oneness now and again because our Minds are under heavy influences of 5 dhut and maya. So, we understand nowhere near about the Atma inside us as the Gurus and some bhagats whose Minds were absorbed in completeness. quite simply.... GURU= ATMA+MIND are all MERGED into ONE and the same. Me and You= ATMA + MIND are separate....hence the duality and the ego..

Me and the family went to see this at a theater with less than 30 sold seats. Overall, I wasn't extremely impressed, but it was very pleasing to watch. It started off very well, with a lot of emphasis and emotion shown in the earlier scenes like the janeo...but then after an hour it seemed like the classic rush job to get get the movie done. You could tell that the beginiing half hour was planned well, but the material shown after was most probably scenes that were chosen and picked together out of a another half dozen. Maybe this was because I knew there were many other sakhees inbetween and then realized that it would be impossible to fit them in a single movie. The depth of the sakhis and the deeper true message wasn't shown or expressed. It focused away from the spiritual significance of Guru ji's messages. Again, this was probably because some of us have done deep vichaar on the events and messages when compared to someone learning it the first time. I feel that it had the 'missionary' agenda because it mentioned more on kirat karo, and vand shako as Sat mentioned in his post. This agenda was more apparent with the Kurukshetra story which was slightly twisted in the direction of missionary 'meat' agenda There was no core message of nam jap or going within and finding the harimandar. I can understand the people that are protesting because I felt that there were some scenes where an actor's face from the side were shown and these were totally unnecessary. The fact that we know the actor was not sikh, didn't please me at all and neither me or my wife felt comfortable with it...I mean if they had used an actor just for effects or to stage some physical moves, then the odd few seconds of 'No face' or the slight side would have been acceptable. These few second scenes where it is clearly an actor and not a computer animated image, were completely unnecessary. A moving animation wouldn't have been a problem theses days as we've seen them since 1988's "Who framed Roger Rabitt" movie. The movie would have appealed more if they gave some narrative with regards to his udassis and got to the depth of core sakhi messages. Even showing some stills with narrative could have taken the film a lot further by filling in missing gaps and time frames I'm glad I had the opportunity to see it before it gets taken down. You have to watch it with an attitude to absorb it instead of watching to nit pick and find faults. Glad my kids got to see it as it gives opportunity for parents to elaborate further.

Totally agree...and I would recommend this. Just breath real deep, slow and long whilst focusing on the breath and then bring waheguru jap in sync with it. Try this first and every time you get bothered or drift away...then bring it back and do a few more long deeper breaths. Sitting up and being completely body centered is quite helpful in my experience. Being attentive with back straight, neck up and chin tucked in slightly-which should bring out your chest as well if done correctly. This aligns all your chakras which will in turn help with the straight path of sukhmana nadi going straight up. Whilst on the matter of the sukhmana ..There is also 'spinal breathing' which is taught in yoga and this is a pranayma that also settles you in preparation for deep meditation. There are many different versions, but i usually do the one below....try it and see if it helps........... 1)Keeping your mouth closed, breathe in and out slowly and deeply through your nose, but not to the extreme. Be relaxed and easy about it, breathing as slowly and deeply as possible without discomfort. 2)Work your muscles so each breath begins in your belly and fills you up through your chest to the top of your collarbones, and then comes back down slowly. 3) Next, with each rising inhalation of the breath, allow your attention to travel upward inside a tiny thread, or tube, you visualize beginning at your perineum (root chakra) and continuing up through the center of your spine, and up through the stem of your brain to the center of your head. -This center is directly behind your eyes upto the midline near where your ears are. The seat of the mind is here and the pineal gland is just above....this is where the amrit will drip from. The idea behind this is that the central sukhmana , through which you want your prana travelling is right there in a straight line in all of us, but we have to imagine it at first to get going. It's just like we make a survey of the land if we are looking for a straight pipe running underneath. Then we start digging and soon will be in direct contact with it. I find it is very helpful to be motivated and encouraging yourself all day long. Keep telling yourself that when I do my simran today,.."I am going to go real deep and steady whilst staying focused" Plan your time around the simran instead of just trying o squeeze in a few minutes when you have time. With practice you should be able to deeper in much less time. Sometimes if I find I keep getting thoughts of people or conversations I had in the day or even just family members, neighbors, someone who's coming over...etc....then if you find that these people keep coming into your mind....Then what I eventually do is simply imagine them and their voices doing the jap with me!...so you could be having the whole family doing the jap in your mind. I usually find that not after long the thoughts of the people just stop because the mind shifts back to your own jap with their help! (so you end up using the disturbance thought as another focusing tool instead)

I like it..........my kind of stuff !

Good point Bhagat. ....still learning it.(slowly though!)....i wasn't too sure, that's why I put the question marks at the end.

question ''Where is sach-khand'' ? Well, where is God himself ?,, where is the ek-onkar ? We all know and say that he is everywhere and amongst everything.. so why do we get confused wondering where sachkhand or the name given to his dwelling is ? so, ''Where is sach-khand?" My answer as per my understanding is that it is everywhere amongst everything in the whole 'cosmic universe'. When you are in sach khand, then you will be in the whole COSMIC Existence..You will be here, there, everywhere, from the room you are sat in right now to stars and planets millions of light years away in ALL directions and ALL at the same time....since there will be NO space or time! There is NO ego,complete advait-non dual, therefore no identity of you to think you are a little drop in the universe. It is when ALL barriers are completely broken down.. You could say it is the definition of 'existence' itself ? Note that in Japji sahib it names the khands before sach-khand as below...... ਧਰਮ ਖੰਡ - Ḏẖaram kẖand ਗਿਆਨ ਖੰਡ -Gian kẖand ਸਰਮ ਖੰਡ - Saram kẖand ਕਰਮ ਖੰਡ - Karam kẖand ਸਚ ਖੰਡਿ- Sach khand Not long ago, someone bought to my attention a closer look at the grammar ?? Notice how 'khand is spelt as ਖੰਡ But when it says sach-khand it is written specifically with a sihari as ਖੰਡਿ and Guruji says.... ਸਚ ਖੰਡਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ॥ Sacẖ kẖand vasai nirankār. In the realm of Truth, the Formless Lord abides. You notice ?? It seems there is some important significance in this and throughout gurbani if we pay attention to grammar we can pick up a few pointers and clarifications. One major significance is that the other khands, levels or stages of progression and development.... are not permanent places of rest or abodes. You see, from each khand, one moves for more development to the next..but when they get to 'sach-khand- which they get joined ('jor')from the completion of karams. (note that "jor" in "Karam kẖand kī baṇī jor", may mean 'to join' and not necessarily 'power' as it says in translation). When at Sach-khand, everything and I mean even the last bit of identity(associated with ego), that tells us I am "I" or I am ''me''...is completely shed and gone.... You are no longer a drop/bubble in the vast ocean but you are the Whole Ocean itself in all it's cosmic expanse. This is Sach-khand from what i can imagine, Where you cab be here, there and everywhere all at the same moment. ..The infinite and supreme Consciousness in it's entirety.

Guru Nanak ji was born a guru. Remember that gu-ru is going from darkness to light and having that guide,ustad, teacher to guide you. So, the sargun manifestation of God that is already the complete and purest form of that light of God,... in sargun roop,... for our low intellects...is Guru Nanak ji. Not long ago, a gurmukh was saying that the Guru Nanak ji and Guru Gobind Singh ji were a little different from the other 8 gurus in that they were already born as pure manifestations of Waheguru jyot. Whereas the other gurus learned, devoted and spent time in meditation whilst having a guru(previous guru) guide them and were thus passed on the gurgaddi to continue. ...Guru Nanak ji was Guru Angad ji's guru and passed on guruship and so on....(I know this leads to more debates because of technicalities, but the gurmukh who made this statement does have a point worth contemplating) Someone made the point that we all have God in us and we are all part of God,, so how can we say only Guru Nanak ji was a form of God ? Well, we are born as per karma, destiny, our lekhe. We are all manukh and have to make the transformation from Manukh to Gurmukh (as i mentioned in the other thread) Gurbani says ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥ Bẖa▫ī parāpaṯ mānukẖ ḏehurī▫ā. This human body has been given to you. ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ Gobinḏ milaṇ kī ih ṯerī barī▫ā. This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe. Whereas Guru Nanak ji was already fully immersed in Gobind. Him and God were 'Ik-mikh' -(one and the same) We too can become 'Ik-mikh' or brahmgyaan, but we have to really work at and transform from dark to light as per gu-ru

Sexual deviation or homosexuality shouldn't be mixed into sikhism because it is not about sikhi. Sikhi is about following the guru and going from darkness to light. It's about taking that ascension into spirituality that makes way to the 'Transformation'.... the transforming of manmukh to gurmukh. Black,white,brown,yellow,tall,thin fat,gay, obsessed with kaam, obsessed with lobh,..greed, sloth....whatever,..,we are all Human and we all have the One chance to Transform from manmukh to gurmukh. What should we be more concerned about planting ?.....the seeds for procreation ? ਕਰਮ ਭੂਮਿ ਮਹਿ ਬੋਅਹੁ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ Karam bẖūm mėh bo▫ahu nām. In the field of karma, plant the seed of the Naam. it's all a karam bhum-field of karma , because after so so many incarnations we get this one human life. Therefore, it doesn't matter whether you were given the full deh/body to procreate or not, we all get what is destined as per our own karma, which is as per ego. Gurbani says that after so so many incarnations we get this One chance. The only seed to plant that really matters is the one of naam, not about procreating or not. ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Cẖirankāl ih ḏeh sanjarī▫ā. ||1|| rahā▫o. After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥ Ka▫ī janam sail gir kari▫ā. In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains; ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥ Ka▫ī janam garabẖ hir kẖari▫ā. in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb; Many many incarnations where we may evolve into full blown men and women (Adam and Eve) or we may not ! Just a note on the pangti above about being the aborted incarnation,... I heard someone once mention that people who self rid their bodies or commit suicide, are then born again and again aborted through the womb.....their karmic debt becomes such that their soul longs and begs for the deh/tanh/body of human life. ...but the only way to pay the debt is by facing the karmic shortcomings every time. This is because eh janam tumare lekhe as bhagat ravidas says ਬਹੁਤ ਜਨਮ ਬਿਛੁਰੇ ਥੇ ਮਾਧਉ ਇਹੁ ਜਨਮੁ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੇ ਲੇਖੇ ॥ Bahuṯ janam bicẖẖure the māḏẖa▫o ih janam ṯumĥāre lekẖe. For so many incarnations, I have been separated from You, Lord; I dedicate this life to You. ....it is our accounts, our deeds or our lekhe that are the root of separation. We are all born as manukhs with this ONE chance to find and merge with the One Truth. ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥ Bẖa▫ī parāpaṯ mānukẖ ḏehurī▫ā. This human body has been given to you. ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ Gobinḏ milaṇ kī ih ṯerī barī▫ā. This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe. This is the only thing that sikhi tells us to examine and look at because this(human life) is what we all have in common. The Transformation that sikhi is meant to make is for the human, doesn't matter if your a cannibal like kaudah raksh, a gay, a hetero pervert or a kuhsrah-hemaphrodite.........sill human....still have the mind...still have the chance to make the Transformation with the guidance of guru from darkness to light.

I'm not going get involved with these politics and I clearly have no problem with the film from what I have read so far. It's showing at 2 theaters in Surrey at the moment and we will try and go see it before it get gets taken down. My kids can't understand why some sikhs are making fuss about and funny enough my younger one innocently assumed that it was because some sikhs may have felt that the film makers were trying to 'islamify' Nanak ji because of the title reference of ''shah''

Just taking a look at slok 49, 50 and 51 out of the many..... ਕਬੀਰ ਥੋਰੈ ਜਲਿ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਝੀਵਰਿ ਮੇਲਿਓ ਜਾਲੁ ॥ Kabeer Thhorai Jal Maashhulee Jheevar Maeliou Jaal || Kabeer, the fish is in the shallow water; the fisherman has cast his net. ਇਹ ਟੋਘਨੈ ਨ ਛੂਟਸਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲਿ ॥੪੯॥ Eih Ttoghanai N Shhoottasehi Fir Kar Samundh Samhaal ||49|| You shall not escape this little pool; think about returning to the ocean. ||49|| ਕਬੀਰ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਜਉ ਅਤਿ ਖਾਰੋ ਹੋਇ ॥ Kabeer Samundh N Shhoddeeai Jo Ath Khaaro Hoe || Kabeer, do not leave the ocean, even if it is very salty. ਪੋਖਰਿ ਪੋਖਰਿ ਢੂਢਤੇ ਭਲੋ ਨ ਕਹਿਹੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੫੦॥ Pokhar Pokhar Dtoodtathae Bhalo N Kehihai Koe ||50|| If you poke around searching from puddle to puddle, no one will call you smart. ||50|| ਕਬੀਰ ਨਿਗੁਸਾਂਏਂ ਬਹਿ ਗਏ ਥਾਂਘੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥ Kabeer Nigusaaneaen Behi Geae Thhaanghee Naahee Koe || Kabeer, those who have no guru are washed away. No one can help them. ਦੀਨ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਆਪੁਨੀ ਕਰਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੫੧॥ Dheen Gareebee Aapunee Karathae Hoe S Hoe ||51|| Be meek and humble; whatever happens is what the Creator Lord does. ||51|| Many of Kabir slok seem to amaze me every time I go back and read them. The depth and strengths of Kabirji's statements can be astounding. One thing I have noticed about the 2 line couplets(dohe)..is that they can stand alone by themselves, but they also seem to follow along one after the other as if they answer the ''why'' and ''how'' in the subsequent lines. An example is the messages in 49,50 and 51.............. ਕਬੀਰ ਥੋਰੈ ਜਲਿ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਝੀਵਰਿ ਮੇਲਿਓ ਜਾਲੁ ॥ Kabeer Thhorai Jal Maashhulee Jheevar Maeliou Jaal || Kabeer, the fish is in the shallow water; the fisherman has cast his net. In 1st line of (49) above..... Note, - that a fish in thorai jal (shallow water) like a pond does not need a fisherman's net to catch it !! So in this case, the fisherman will catch EVERYTHING with his cast net from this pond...There is just no escaping of the fish! So what should the fish do if it doesn't want to get caught ? answer is below...It should go into bigger waters where it can escape the confines of such net. ਇਹ ਟੋਘਨੈ ਨ ਛੂਟਸਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲਿ ॥੪੯॥ Eih Ttoghanai N Shhoottasehi Fir Kar Samundh Samhaal ||49|| You shall not escape this little pool; think about returning to the ocean. ||49|| The fish = Human soul and the little jal/small pond = this small world in the universe. The world that is in the territory of kal's net. We are trapped in this net, but if we try to get into chautha padh/4th dimension/turiya avastha...then we can be in the same Ek Prabh outside of this duality. In the next verse(50),....he goes further to say// ਕਬੀਰ ਸਮੁੰਦੁ ਨ ਛੋਡੀਐ ਜਉ ਅਤਿ ਖਾਰੋ ਹੋਇ ॥ Kabeer Samundh N Shhoddeeai Jo Ath Khaaro Hoe || Kabeer, do not leave the ocean, even if it is very salty. Now he is saying that the survival in the ocean may be difficult. We can't survive on salty water alone (most creatures from ponds can't survive in deeper saltier waters). Don't assume that it's an easy task that once you get to that avastha or ocean..it will be an easy ride. On the other hand.. don't get scared and leave it under the assumption that maintaining gurmukh avastha is too difficult to prolong. Many great beings have failed in this respect and fallen back into traps of maya's net. Next line he goes a step further into telling us or warning us about how one may poke around from puddles to ponds..looking for the one that the fisheman(Kal) may not approach. ਪੋਖਰਿ ਪੋਖਰਿ ਢੂਢਤੇ ਭਲੋ ਨ ਕਹਿਹੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੫੦॥ Pokhar Pokhar Dtoodtathae Bhalo N Kehihai Koe ||50|| If you poke around searching from puddle to puddle, no one will call you smart. ||50|| This is in regard to how one goes and jumps from guru to master/sadhu/ saint and even faith, looking for the better option. Kabirji says that you will just waste your time and no one will think you're smart or any wiser. An act of manmat intellect where our mind convinces us that the other master is greater because evidence shows how such and such...went so and so...etc. Going further into next verse(51), he reinforces the statement of not to poke around ਕਬੀਰ ਨਿਗੁਸਾਂਏਂ ਬਹਿ ਗਏ ਥਾਂਘੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥ Kabeer Nigusaaneaen Behi Geae Thhaanghee Naahee Koe || Kabeer, those who have no guru are washed away. No one can help them. nigusain=one without lord, guru, patronage thanghi=to guide,sailor....the one that can lead the way so, whats the solution if you have no teacher, no guru..no guide . If you don't have guide to show or help lead you out of the ponds.....then No one will be able to show you.....You need a living guru to guide you through the living waters.... a satguru......Sri Guru granth sahib ji. ਦੀਨ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਆਪੁਨੀ ਕਰਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੫੧॥ Dheen Gareebee Aapunee Karathae Hoe S Hoe ||51|| Be meek and humble; whatever happens is what the Creator Lord does. ||51|| I think... ''Deen garibi''= be humble and meek with regards to your faith. There is a lot behind these words because you can't claim that the Lord is going to take you in his abode because of your faith.....This is not ''deen garibi'' ..............Being humble of your faith and guide cannot be declared. It's like saying 'I am silent'' ? .. The silence can only be observed in your action and not by your declaration. In the same way being humble about your pond/faith cannot be declared either.

Hey bro, please point me to the tuk that you are referring to.

The best thing that I can say is to Not give up or get scared of Prabh ka simran. I'm not going to try and find or give conclusions to your scenario in this case but all I can say is that it is a major distraction because it has weakened your frame of mind. You need to pump up with a stronger mental and positive attitude that should help you steer from the many obstacles that are to come on this path. One solution is to stop asking and questioning yourself of ''why is this happening?'' and ''what does it mean?''......because that won't help in your progress. Believe me, In my experience you can definitely override it all by self tuning your mind and insisting to yourself that you only want your Dhyan on His simran and nothing else.

We should get into the habit with both actions and thought processes that "HE is the DOER" He does, he commands, we exist only because of his doing and it's all his play. As soon as we start assuming or calculating some efforts we think that are our own doing then immediately we step towards further boundaries of Duality. ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੈ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਦੂਜਾ ॥ Parabẖ kai simran binsai ḏūjā. What is DUJA ?? It is the duality...or the other side of EK-Onkaar. On one side there is 'EK Parabh, the One almighty,... and on the other side of the duality fence there is the Ego filled existence. This ego is the one that claims credit for all good efforts but tries to deny, even to itself ,...it's own shortcomings ! I know we are all in different situations as per karmic relationships and social/economic/work status. Therefore we may have to make different amends or dealings with fulfilling karmas that can quite easily make us feel like we have put in more effort that our neighbor let's say.... But in my opinion, I think it's wiser and safer to start treading this path with the 'it's not me' ego attitude. This should make the journey more positive in our own spiritual development. We have to learn to crawl before we can learn to walk this path. So what better way to start, in knowing that it is God who is leading all the crawling.

You mean the quote from Sidh Gosht ?? I couldn't find it either and I agree that the rest of the info was good but he was wrong about yogmat and saying that the yogis were ignorant of soul. btw.....it was the yogis that got to stages where they could actually see the chakras and were able to give us the colors and descriptions. ...and yes....Bhagat Kabirji's references are towards Patanjali yoga mostly.

A wonderful explantion by bhai saab ji and a little wake up call as well.