Lucky

Savinderpalsingh ji.... you are in a totally different boat and that attitude would not work amongst the sikh communities in my vicinity. Over here it's that very attitude that would result in sikhi being completely wiped out with your 3rd generation..ie..your kids children. God has given us 2 eyes and 2 ears in order to listen and hear BOTH sides of any equation. However, we have One tongue that is for uttering the Truth... therefore, you should firstly watch,listen and learn before using your One tongue. someone mentioned the word 'khaliban' before somewhere.... and I'm now beginning to understand what it means. No more comment. Nada mas que decir.......adios!

Exactly Dalsingh ji... I think that most of us sikhs in the west have learned our lessons by seeing where and how things went wrong with many sikhs amongst us...and especially in the last 25 yrs. If you want to be a clueless and locked out sikh, then go live in some isolated ashram or create your own prison where you can go forth and multiply. I don't know too much about social upbringing in india... but the ones who raise their kids with the ''you can't do this'' and ''you must only do this'' attitude, are the ones that come to regret in later years. I can't force sikhi on my kids or insist that they must do x amount hours of simran.....but I try and teach them how to do simran and assure them that there will come a time later in life when they won't regret knowing what I taught them. It's my duty to teach them the ''How'' but not to be enforcing it on them. I feel more than assured that they know where to turn to when they may face obstacles or hurdles in their life.

If you are able to go to public recreation swimming pool or hot tubs lets say.... and there are plenty of bikini wearing goriyan and remembering that for them it is the normal and appropriate wear for that environment...... then can you go about and use the facilities without even one single look or kaam thought coming in your mind ? If you can't then you aren't strong enough.... you need to practice.... avoiding the hot tub or pool is not the answer is it ?

veerji, It's not about if it suits a singh or not..... Guruji and gurmukhs see the brahmjyot and akal purakh in everything and everyone. remember that we have to be the lotus floating along the maya ocean...... ਜਲ ਪੁਰਾਇਨਿ ਰਸ ਕਮਲ ਪਰੀਖ ॥ Jal purā▫in ras kamal parīkẖ. This is the true mark of wisdom: that one remains detached, like the water-lily, or the lotus upon the water I hope we all get to understand and feel this one day. I know some of the sikh rebels will come up with pangtees about how we should avoid sangat of negative and wrongdoing jeevs.....yes very true.... but are you doing their sangat if your mind is with waheguru ? My answer is no and personally i have learned how I can draw the line to remain dissociated....which seems to work for my personal benefit. Sikhi does not teach us to deny Waheguru's creation and all his 'Kar'-doing' This doesn't mean that you fool yourself and start walking into stripclubs by choice because you think your unattached.

Shabad Guru comes from the ONG. as in Ik Ong kaar. You start hearing the Ong at first but it takes a long time for it to fully manifest and for you to realise what it's all about. The intial yogic sounds are not shabad but vibrations and energies from your chakras that start getting aligned with gurmantar shabad. It's taken me over a year to realize this after going 'to and fro' many times. I think my understandings a little stable now,..... but you never know.... I may say something else in a few months !!!

No ...amritdharis are strictly forbidden from attending prom nights for graduations ! Seriously.... what do you think really matters ?? Is it to attend or not attend your prom ? OR what you do and don't do at the prom ?

Gobind the master of the whole universe and the universe itself is inside you !!

Also with reference to some of the earlier posts that I have just read about astral and OBE's............. In my understanding, OBE's in astral are all about the power of your own mind and won't help you rise above the realms on the abyasee marg......Maybe some of you have ??...i'm not denying....but It's my understanding. And if you have or you do feel that you are getting washed in the amrit of truth... then are you sure that you are travelling upstream to the source or Mool or are you getting washed downstream ? ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਵੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਵਹਣਿ ਲੁੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੰਦੜੀ ਜਾਇ ॥੧੬॥ Ḏūjai bẖāvīʼn nānkā vahaṇ luṛĥaʼnḏaṛī ja-e In the love of duality, O Nanak, the mortals are being washed downstream. Guruji has given us the greatest and direct method that can take you to the highest realm of sachkhand....and that of course is the shabad and focusing your Single attention on Waheguru. Some yogic schools and even some meditative enlightenment paths try to gear you up under the impression that you must go via astral realm with OBE to rise to the higher realms.......This may also work and gurbani doesn't condemn it either.....but Guruji said we don't need to complicate it because all we need is the ONE Jap and praise with the ONE tongue. The EK- shabad from the EK-jap that is praising and doing sift salah of Ek waheguru will take you straight to the EK. Onkaar. Also, from what I have now come to understand is that there are many levels of astral planes and realms. However, they are not nirgun because structural forms still exist although they may not appear purely physical as what we are used to... These are often mistaken for the places of after-life where all souls go.....but if you want to ascend via this method (as i mention above) then this is where you probably need the guides or masters that they talk about in sant mat, radhasoamis etc.... BUT I FIRMLY believe in the marg given by Guru Nanak ji which is to ascend DIRECTLY with the shabad without roaming around these structural realms/planes..... and that is with Pure EXPANSION of consciousness by connecting with shabad and following its 'Dhun'-vibration...... In my opinion....we are not going to learn much sikhi or progress by playing in astral realms. I think you need to ascend via the universe that exists inside your own body. The lessons start coming in the further realms and you start learning more about your very own self which in turn leads you to find your own truer self and come to that God-Realisation. Guruji says that there are so many worlds, realms and so many lessons to be learned,........... ਕੇਤੀਆ ਕਰਮ ਭੂਮੀ ਮੇਰ ਕੇਤੇ ਕੇਤੇ ਧੂ ਉਪਦੇਸ ॥ Keṯī▫ā karam bẖūmī mer keṯe keṯe ḏẖū upḏes. So many worlds and lands for working out karma. So very many lessons to be learned! This is one reason why I said somewhere before that the further stages get very personal and unified according to our own gunas, actions, paaps and karmic imprints.

It's not as scary as you think !.............. The experience is a little different because you are in control of your elevation. When you are scared of heights(I am too!!)...... we get scared because of whatever we are standing on for support, creates doubt. It feels as though we lose the sense of stability and the height or altitude seems to over ride the senses instead. When hovering in your weightless form, you feel quite stable as you know there is not enough body weight for gravity to pull you down. It's probably the knowing about the height and fall that can occur due to gravity that creates a fear. Also when having an OBE, as soon as you create a fear or start thinking about anything to do with your ego and the maya illusion...then you immediately shoot back into your physical body without notice. This is because fear and thoughts of anything structural produces negative vibrations. I would say that these negative vibrations are like weight that hold you down and prevent you ascending. The most positive vibration is the shabad connection and gurmantar jap.

Head should be straight and balanced for optimum benefit. From what I understand so far...... In early stages, in order to help you get deep.... you need to have a good uniform balance both with physical and subtle body. In later stages when you are in complete silent jap and body is relaxed, you feel weightless, elevated, nirgun and totally antarghat.....then you won't even notice how your head is sitting..... and I believe that most of the time it can sit forward or backward. It's only when you come out of the meditative state that you should notice how you were sitting. There are a few tips for helping to maintain the straight, balanced and erect position to start with.....and my first suggestion would be to focus on keeping your back straight and in upright position. There are people that may disagree with what I'm suggesting and say that it doesn't matter.... but I'm just advising on my own experiences and how I noticed many times that my simran was much more maximized on days that my whole body was balanced or when I had come back from yoga class. My 2 little tips would be 1) Try and imagine a string attached to the top of your head.....Imagine that string is being held and pulled as if you a puppet and that the doer is puling that string upwards towards him....just let your head go upwards along with the string. !!!.......voila ,,,,your head,neck and back should all be straight and in line. 2) If you keep noticing that your back keeps arching... then try and stick the bottom of your bum base out backwards as if you doing that 'twirking' thing whilst sitting. This should also help if you got a stiff and aching back from sitting. Seriously... this whole balancing and sitting straight thing has been more than beneficial for me.

That sounds like dasam duar was just about to open, but the fear bringing the person away. This is why it is imperative to have the shabad as the only single dhyian.

No, that's fine bro. I think that you should do it at whatever speed or rate that you feel settled in.... I remember that for a very long time, I used to find it easier to start off at a certain continuous rate.. and then later I too would slow down as surti went more inwards... and the breathing would also get very shallow. Remember that these techniques are just tools for this game of our mind... the object is to try and still it whilst keeping it's focus on waheguru and waheguru only.......So in my opinion, I don't think it really matters which way you do it as long as you can catch that mind from running in 10 directions and point it towards Akaal Purakh. Oh yeah... another thing is that don't get in too much thought about trying to stop your thoughts either !!...(what??) You see, we can end up just keeping our focus on trying to stop thoughts and then find that the mind is getting even busier by trying to catch and halt these very thoughts !! I used to find that I often did this and would end up getting frustrated instead. I remember that on here somewhere our bro Bhagat ji advising that you should become the ''observer'' instead... and just sit and observe the thoughts one by one but don't larch onto them. So, I took his advice and started this approach instead of trying to hammer down every thought that kept arising........ and in time my mind adapted and it became easier !! ...thanks Bhagat !

''

I think the easiest way that I came across gurmukh and manmukh being explained was........ GUR-MUKH= Gurus-Mouth(mukh) So what is uttered and what comes from guru's mouth ?........simply the TRUTH....all Sat..in it's purity. When someone is Gur-Mukh, then they are living,breathing,following and in full conduct with the words that come from the Guru's Mukh. In contrast, when someone is MAN-MUKH= Mann's Mouth......... then they are following and living in conduct with what their MANN(Mind) tells them...Man-mukh follows instructions from Mukh(mouth) of the Mann. And this Mann is hugely influenced by maya and encased in the strangle-hold of Kaal. Getting out of kaal's desh, then you are within A-kaal,...Akaal purakhs bondaries.....therefore, gone from Man-mukh to Gur-mukh. Biq question is.... Is it Mann vs Guru or is the Mann bad...some people will ask ? No, mann is not bad but it's LOST in maya... that's the problem....Mann has forgotten it's source, whereas Guru comes as pure, clean and and as truthful existence from this source. To add, we continually add more and more dirt on our Mann on a daily basis. The precious jewel or jyot is still there gleaming in it's purity but we have put layer upon layer of dirt on top it. That's why gurbani says 'Mann tu jyot saroop hai, apna mool paichan''...oh mind, you are the embodiment of jyot, recognize your own source and origin... This means that we have to work to recognize our own source of the mind.....find that origin... that place is the home...the home of sach-khand, waheguru's darbar,....the nijh mahal..

All tickets were sold out yesterday except for an extra screening today for which the 4 last seats were available....so we got these yesterday and went an hour early today and even then two thirds of the auditorium was already occupied !! The film was excellent and I was surprised that the 3D quality was a good standard since I wasn't expecting much after reading a review that the effects were only very basic 3D !!! It was portrayed very well and even though we very much know the events beforehand, it still bought many tears to my eyes. My kids were very touched and I feel it gave them a little awakening too. We need more of this and there is no reason why we don't since enough money gets wasted on inappropriate media. I may go and see it again on the weekend and I very highly recommend everyone see it.

Harsharan ji's post describes the answer quite well. Let me also add that ALL the sounds and visions even, are part of the illusion...you are still in maya. it's stll trai-gun. This doesn't mean that the naad you may be hearing and feeling is false, because this naad is still coming from that same source of sach-khand.....however, you are still wrapped in the illusion and the shabad is not fully manifest as the sehaj dhun in sach khand. You will know when it's sehaj dhun or pure anhad bani because it will be pure para-bani coming drenched in amrit when waheguru reveals the Nijh ghar/sach-khand to you. At this stage you will see/feel/become with the Brahm jyot.....and ONLY then will you yourself be able to confirm that it is the purest, truest Anhad Bani you are hearing. The sounds we can hear at early stages of different instruments..etc.. are all paon de shabad and related to the air/pavan. They change as you progress and so does the naad. Initially the naad is intermittent but then gets clearer and more intense until it becomes 24hr. In this part of the journey I think that it varies vastly for each and every one of us and according to our own gunas. AT the same time you will get 'downloads' of knowledge, gyaan and understanding about 'Yourself''...and according to your own gunas. We will often question to ourselves if the naad or sounds are genuine and true anhad. ... the answer is quite simple because if we are questioning, then we must surely be still be wrapped in the illusion more than being drenched in amrit rus/naam When we experience the -brahm jyot- amrit- prakash,- anhad in it's purest and highest form in sachkhand..... only then, will you have no doubts and be able to confirm to your self. I'm sure you won't be questioning or doubting in any way. Gurbani talks about these different levels of illusion including Gandarve Nagri, Mrig trishna, Maya Jaal...which is all part of kaal to stop and divert you. This occurs ALL the way up to the doorstep of waheguru's sacha mahal. And only until HE opens it and you get prakash are you out of kaal's boundary.

No,...not quite... Sikhi is the path of where one is to transform from manmukh to gurmukh isn't it ?? What's this got to do with brahmin?.... and is calling every other non-sikh a giddar, going to keep you on the right path towards gurmukh?

I know there are so many questions. My easiest piece of advice would be to start doing regular simran with waheguru jap. Ideally most of us that speak on here have started with the saas graas and saas saas jugtees(techniques) It really doesn't matter what technique you use as long as you get to that internal discipline of steadying your mind(from jumping to thoughts) and japping internally with the mind. Eventually;-(if you already haven't)..you will begin to fall in love with the waheguru gurmantar. Whilst doing this it is important to be listening, listening and listening...to just listen to yourself inside doing the jap. It is when you start listening to your sukham(subtle) self whilst doing jap...that waheguru begins to manifest within.

To put it in simple small words............... We don't need no master or physical guide to help,hold and guide us at further stages.. ALL we need and should be looking for is the SHABAD. The Shabad IS the Guru. Guru Nanak ji told the yogis 'shabad guru surat dhun chela'....when they asked young guruji who his master guru was. However, if we are blessed with his kirpa and baksh...and may need a guide to hold our hands across the turbulent world ocean, then Nanak ji himself will give you his darshan.

Savinderji... I know what you are saying and where you coming from. I think that when we go in through the window of doing gurbani veechar for general or self explanations, then at first we should try and completely throw ego out of the window. Should always approach in a neutral manner and try to decipher the message. In the above, Guruji is making us question ''what is sucha and what is jhuta'' He says,, that sucha only becomes such if the 'tongue' itself has naam and has been uttering naam. Eating your own veg and fruit is not making anything any more pure, because it still comes from the same organism containing water and greens. All I am trying to point out is that the quoted shabad is not endorsing bibek rehat in any way. However, that is not to say that I am speaking against bibek rehat. Bibek rehat, from how I understand it....has it's place in gurmat. We all know about food hygiene and external cleansiness and in the same way...bibek rehat is more about inner cleansiness-which I won't go too much into in this post. The food's are not sacred in the sense that they can purify us or purify the tongue that has uttered filth..... But the tongue can be made more sacred by uttering shabad and thus making any foods consumed to be drenched in naam.

Simple answer is not a yes or a no... but the question is who is the ''real pakhandi or faker''? It's me and you mate...us... the manmukhs..that question the integrity or higher order of some other gursikh. .... You may say, ''what gives the other gursikh such higher order or status ?" Well, i would say that if there is some gursikh or bhai sahib amongst us that could teach us a thing or two, and in turn we may learn something from them..... then in turn, they would have such a higher order/status than me & you. So if I want to be a faker and question the teacher.. then that makes me the real pakhandi. Besides the guy doing the slating is from the group of missionaries that deny dasam bani, deny naam simran and very openly promote khula maas(from macdonalds) instead of looking at meat issue with regards to nihang/warrior/jhatka tradition. They have the charms and persuasions of wrongly distorting gurbani for their own personal agendas.... so what deal and how difficult would it be for them to distort the lifestyle, kamayee, gyaan of some gursikh ?

The quote from asa di vaar shouldn't be taken out of context. You have to delve in and look at what the primary adjective is that is being addressed.... and what makes something or someone jhuta or sucha ?

Excellent and simplistic explanation ! I have read through many hours worth of elaborations on 'ek ongkar' given by lots of gursikhs. They all go very, but nothing beats the simple words above that again emphasize on doing the practical. I attended the camp for 3 days and it was excellent and mind-blowing at times. What amazed me was the number of very high avastha gursikhs that were sat amongst us in the sangat..

It's all in stages depending on each soul development from the little I understand. No, you can't meet Guruji this way at your own will. His darshan are all by his gurprashad, kirpa and nadar.