Mian irs descendants in the UK

[shaheediyan]

Apologies - title should read Mian Mirs.

They held a divaan in Herts last week.

Does anyone know where they will over the next few weeks, please share with the sangat if so.

[shaheediyan]

Pir Sahib Makhdom Syed Chan Pir Qadri who now sit on Sai Hazrat Mian Mir Sahibs gaddi will be attending a divaan at the Khalsa centre Gurdwara in Tooting (South West London) on Saturday 16th August at 7pm.

They will bring with them the Ganga Sagar and Mala Sahib given to Hazrat Ji by Guru Sahiban - and will retell some sakhian as per their tradition.

http://www.mianmir.com/2005/

[shaheediyan]

Sangat Ji,

Just a reminder to anyone in the UK who would like to have darshan of Pir Sahib (and listen to their Sakhis etc) and Guru Sahibans Mala Sahib and Ganga Sahib.

I may spend some time with Pir Sahib before the divaan, so if anyone would like to ask any questions let me know.

Dhanvaad.

[SURYADEV]

Woudn't know where to start with any questions , but could you record your discussions with the Pir Sahib and put it up on the 'net??

[tonyhp32]

Shaheediyan,

As I don't personally have neither the time nor the inclination to have 'darshan' of someone who subverts the message of the Gurus, could you ask our friend to stop spreading his lies about the Gurus as alluded to in the thread below

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...pic.php?t=10194

[shaheediyan]

Pir Sahib said nothing which 'subverted' Gurbani.

You of all people should know that history is subjective (our version as well others), so should respect the fact that Pir Sahib is entitled to believe in his tradition and share that with whom he likes, just as you can. Belief in his traditional version of events doesn't make him a liar (even if we don't agree with them).

The only thing you need to worry about Tony is your blatent hatred of Muslims and non-Gurmat attempts to spread your hate.

There is enough in Gurbani and Sikh ithihaas with regards to Islam (and Hindu Dharma) and true Muslims who were friends or followers of Guru Sahiban, for any of your anti-Islam agenda to ever be taken seriously.

[tonyhp32]

Shaheediyan,

You stated yourself that he believes that Guru Nanak was a Muslim. Now how is this any different from what our mutual friend bahadur has had to say on the subject. No where in Gurbani or in Sikh Ithehaas does Guru Nanak say that he was a Muslim. I know it's quite fashionable nowadays to not take a tough line on anything for fear of being labeled a fanaticl or some peoples' favourite insult on here, taleban. Maybe the Sufis define a Muslim differently but all Muslims agree that to be a Muslim you must accept Mohammed as the final prophet. Since nowhere in Sikh history or Gurbani do the Gurus accept such a claim then this Pir chappy is clearly telling lies. Whether they are lies which have been told for many years within his tradition or new ones he dreamed up is immaterial. A lie is a lie. Maybe some here can rationalise the lies of the Pir and give them a meaning other than the commonly accepted meaning but in my eyes he's a blatant liar.

As for my hatred of Muslims, can you point to where i have said I hated Muslims? Just pointing out someones bad point whether it be an individual or even a whole religion does not amount to hatred of that individual or religion.

[Mithr]

Pir Sahib may by the spiritual descendent of Mian Mir, but it doesn't mean they hold the exact same beleifs. I doubt that Mian Mir jee who was so close to Guru Jee would have beleived that Guru jee was a follower of Prophet Mohammad as Pir Sahib jee beleives. Just because they are from the same sompradhaya as Mian Mir Jee does not mean they are of the same spiritual or intellectual level as Mian Mir Jee.

When Hindus claim that Guru Nanak Dev Jee and other Gurus were HIndus, we Sikhs jump up and down in anger and use the most filthy language against them, and will even beat them up if they are in front of us. Yet why do we remain quiet when Muslims claim Guru Nanak Dev Jee was a Muslim? far from getting angry, most of us actually get impressed that they "honoured" Guru Nanak Dev Jee by considering him a Muslim. Why this double standard for Muslims and Hindus?

When someone says that Guru Nanak Dev Jee was a Muslim, it means that Guru Nanak Dev Jee considered Prophet Mohammad as his Rasool and that Guru Nanak Dev Jee was below Prophet Mohammad. Personally, as a Sikhs I just cannot digest this, and I will not lie, but my blood pressure does go up if someone claims Guru Nanak dev Jee is a follower of Prophet Mohammad.

I consider Guru Nanak Dev Jee more dear than my father, and just as I would feel angry if someone spreads lies about my father, similarly I would also feel angry if someone spreads lies about Satguru Nanak Dev Jee.

How would Muslims react if some Christian leader (lets say) like the Pope told them that Prophet Mohammad was a Christian and that he did not consider starting the Islamic faith? do you think Muslims would feel honoured by this statement? I -- D O N 'T -- T H I N K -- S O!!!!

[shaheediyan]

tonyhp31,

Bahadurs opinion is similar to those Muslims who have respect for and belief in Guru Sahiban - and they all point to the sakhis concerning visiting Mekka (typical of haj) and th reading of kalma to claim Guru Ji as their 'treasure'. He is not the 1st, nor will he be the last - he was far from original in this thought.

Hindus would and do say the same, pointing to Guru Nanak Dev Ji's aarti recital at the temple of Jaggannath at Puri etc .

I believe both to be right - because in Sat-Guru they saw manifest perfection, which is universal, andsonce they have complete belief that their dharam embodies perfection - then of course they will claim Sat-Guru to be theirs - specifically because of Sat-Guru's interaction in their history.

I am not rationilizing anything, I am simply saying Pir Sahib has every right to believe in the tradition which exists in his school.

For me, rudeness and insult towards that which is the most precious and divine aspect of another groups life - is a product of hatred, and even if I am wrong, this behaviour is still uncalled for and not Gurmat.