The Royal Book of Spiritual Chivalry

[Matheen]

Some of you might remember Bahadar Ali's claims that this book (The Royal Book of Spiritual Chivalry: Futuwat Namah-Yi Sultani) describes an initiation ceremony for Shias that is similar to Khande Bhattey Da Amrit.

I just read it. Guess what?

There is a ceremony described but it bears absolutely NO resemblance to an Amrit Sanchar. None at all.

So much for 'honest scholarship'.

[Mithar]

That's just the thing. He is such a dishonest person. You can never trust him based on his word because he will alway use lies and half truth or distorted out of context facts to push his claim. Great job Matheen

[amardeep]

can you describe the right of initiation mentioned therein?

[Matheen]

can you describe the right of initiation mentioned therein?

I'll borrow the book again and write it word for word. Next week at the earliest.

[amardeep]

ok. where did you borrow the book? i'd like to read it

[tonyhp32]

I think you got it wrong. What BA was saying was that some Shia sects have an 'initiation' ceremony and so does the Khalsa, then it follows that Nihangs are similar to the Hashashin, Guru Nanak was a Shia and Iran is the centre of the universe! It's easy to see how he came to these conclusion, he being a great scholar and an 'alim' amongst the Sikhs!

That's why one should never take at face value any claim made of forums and it should also be incumbent on the moderators to make someone who makes such controversial statements to give references that can be checked.

[shaheediyan]

Right on que.

It's fine for people to have theories - and even better for them to share them with us so that we can respond, rather than spread them unchecked in other circles.

I think the initiation/chivalry rituals refer to early Sufi and Safavid groups. I have read some of the literature and there is great wisdom therein. We shouldn't right everything off just because an idiot once mentioned it. The fact of the matter is (whether the universally read 10th Master was aware of this preceding tradition or not) that 10th Master was Sarguna Parmatma - and that the Khande de Pahul tradition, couples with the specific rehits/kurehtis and prem bhagti/sansaari nishkaam seva is unique/ The ideals of bravery, morals, chivalry, equality, service to humanity etc have existed for millenia - we can't monopolise these, but Sat-Gurus specific combinations and utilisations/explanation of instructions and traditions (even if they were pre-existant) is unique.

There are many similarities and traditions that Guru Sahiban have drawn from i.e. musical - Ragmala talks of Raag - Raagni school of music - probably Hanuman Mat - this school of music was influenced and propogated by the early Islamic rulers - before hand Gram-Murchana and Jati system was still in vogue. Gram-Murchana was also still used by Guru Sahiban as is evident from the ghar instructions in Gurbani sirleks.

I only mention this to show that even the highest Sikh practice of all - Kirtan - was already being used and the specific method Guru has instructed us to use and mentioned in rag-mala - was already developed, so we shouldn't get to hung up about defending invention.

The most important point is this - that Guru's revived, corrected and again perfected practice of worship, singing, and fighting - where these practices had been corrupted in the mainstream of existing faiths. (IMHO).