Balmik vs Valmiki

[das]

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji ke Fateh,

1.

Everyone must have heard that Ramayan was written by Balmik in Satyug and therefore it was written far before it actually happened. It was because of the tap/bhagti that Balmik did. This is what almost all Sants told us in their deewans.

2.

Now, according to some other sources, Valmiki was the person in whose Ashram Luv and Kush (Ram Ji's sons) were born and learns arms training from Valmiki.

Now, my question is how the second statement could be true. Is it possible that another person of Balmik name exists during the Luv, Kush period. It is due to the 2nd point that many Hindus and Sikhs think that Ramayan actually never happened, it is just a story.

Does, anybody know about these 2 Balmiks?

das

[shaheediyan]

The Smriti Epic - Ramayana was actually writtnn during the end of the Vedic era. Scientifically (language and poetry evolutioneryanalysis) and historically, Vālmīki could not have written the story before it occured. Indian written traditions and the onset of Sahanskriti only took place just over 2,000 years ago (varying either way according to different scholars). The Veds for instance were always orally transmitted to the next generation, they were only firts written during the Vedic time period. The same is most likely true for the Ramayana. I wouldn't worry about roots of traditions, anything you learn about in pre-classical Indian history has at least 100 different versions, lol. It adds to the beauty, mystery and one's personal taste!

[Kam1825]

Balmik as far as i know is a common name in old literature.

Rishi Balmik is said to have written the Ramayan before the time of Sri Ram. This Rishi Balmik lived a long time as did all the people in the se ages.

Another Balmik was the one who cared or Sita and her children after she left Ayodhya.

Another Balmik is Rishi Balmik Batvara who was invited to the Yag at Indarprast by The Pandavs and Krishna.

[jsingh96]

Everyone must have heard that Ramayan was written by Balmik in Satyug and therefore it was written far before it actually happened. It was because of the tap/bhagti that Balmik did. This is what almost all Sants told us in their deewans.

At the start of the ramanya it states that valmiki wrote it in satyug yeh.

2.

Now, according to some other sources, Valmiki was the person in whose Ashram Luv and Kush (Ram Ji's sons) were born and learns arms training from Valmiki.

Now, my question is how the second statement could be true. Is it possible that another person of Balmik name exists during the Luv, Kush period.

Valmiki/Balmiki (same thing, in Northen India you would tend to see the word Balmiki used, as in Ramavatar) appears at various times, during the Ramayana not only when he takes care of Luva and Kush. He comments on various events as well, ie. when he applauds Ravanas response to Kaal. I do not believe that it is talking about another person named Valmiki, it is the same Rishi who wrote the Ramayana. Now this could be because he transcends 'time' and can appear whereever he wants, or simply that he wanted to include himself in the story. I would like to see if there are deeper interpretations to why this happened from the tradition. Tsingh would you be able to comment?

It is due to the 2nd point that many Hindus and Sikhs think that Ramayan actually never happened, it is just a story.

Many Hindus believe very strongly that the Ramayana actually happened some don't. The Valmiki point is not the only point where it is contested, I can think of various events that would seem very 'fairytale'ish...

- monkey and bear army fighting for Rama

- Hanuman lifting up a mountain from the Himalyas and bringing it to SriLanka

etc...

[Mithar]

jsingh does make sense. Some parts of Ramayan seem to be a little too fairytale'ish. Maybe some parts may have been added after Valmiki wrote Ramayan originally. An army of monkeys and bears defeating Ravan's army does seem a little too credible to beleive.

[jsingh96]

I did not say that to discredit the Ramayana, you can get a lot of good out of it. I'm not sure if I believe that what is said is exactly what happened, but really its irrelevant when you think about it.

[das]

Thanks Kam1825 veerji for the information!!

[shaheediyan]

Ramayanan and Mahabarata have both been evolving epics - written and rewritten by generations of Rishis - as happens with any faith group - stories are added to and glorified over time.

The point of these Granths is to take lessons from them, not ponder on the decorative detail or metaphors/artistry - don't forget these were granths were made to be sung/recited in sloka fashion!

[jsingh96]

found something very interesting in dasam about this

In Brahmaavatars (avatars of brahma), which comes after Chaubis Avatar (24avatars of vishnu), the first avatar of brahma is Balmiki.

Let me type up the translation for you lot.

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After assuming the incarnation, Brahma, with the fullness of his heart and in a special way, presented his thoughts;

He remembered the Lord and composed the songs and prepared the epic skillfully arranging the selected words.1.

For the divine thoughts, he created the word ‘Brahm’ and by remembering the Lord and with His grace, he narrated whatever he wanted;

He, unhestitatinly, composed in this way the fine epic Ramayana, which none else will be able to do.2.

All the poets are dumb before him, how will they compose poetry? He composed this Granth by the Grace of the Lord;

The erudite scholars of language and literature read it with pleasure; and while comparing with their own works, they get angry in their minds.3.

The story of his immaculate poem which is really wonderful accomplished and powerful; this story is even re-composed today.

His poem is said to be extremely pure and each of its episodes is spotless, sanctified and marvelous.4.

According to the instructions given in Ramayana, we should ever be in the service of the Lord; we should get up early in the morning and remember His Name;

Through the Glory of His Name, many enemies are killed and the charities of innumerable types are bestowed; that Lord, also keeping His name on our heads, protects the ignorant people like us.5.

Even after the fighting of many mighty warriors, the saints remain unharmed and before the white arrows of His Grace and tranquility, the forces of agony and affliction fly away;

That Lord, with His Grace, will save me and I shall never pass through any condition of suffering and hardship.6.

End of the first incarnation of Valmiki.

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this is on ang 613-614 of sri dasamgranth sahib

i found this extremely interesting, thought i would share it with the internet sangat

[Malwe Da Sher]

nice, thanks for sharing.

[shaheediyan]

Thanks.