From Is Formless, Formless Is Form!

[mit]

When meditating, you medititate on the naam. You are worshipping the formless. But does the formless have a form. Like in Jaap Sahib, guru Sahib bows down to Akaal Purukh 1100 times, and states he has many forms, and is so many forms, but is still 1 form. How do you meditate on the formless form and still keep your mind from wondering?

Just a question that arose in my mind

Light

Mit

[Mystical]

In a way Gods formless form is a form in itself. If you think about it, God is both nirgun sargun, one cannot exist without the other. The human mind can't understand God.

[laalsingh]

ਵਿਸੁਏ ਚਸਿਆ ਘੜੀਆ ਪਹਰਾ ਥਿਤੀ ਵਾਰੀ ਮਾਹੁ ਹੋਆ ॥

ਸੂਰਜੁ ਏਕੋ ਰੁਤਿ ਅਨੇਕ ॥

The seconds, minutes and hours, days, weeks and months,

and the various seasons originate from the one sun;

ਨਾਨਕ ਕਰਤੇ ਕੇ ਕੇਤੇ ਵੇਸ ॥੨॥੨॥

O Nanak, in just the same way, the many forms originate from the Creator. ||2||2||

Formless, timeless Lord did this ਪਸਾਰਾ, but these forms are bound in time and shape. While looking at these forms, focus on formless, timeless Creator who extended Himself into this ਪਸਾਰ, just like sunlight defines these terms for average human mind.

[Kam1825]

to stopthe mind from wondering i have focused on the viakhiya of the gurmantar. That way you control the mind as well

[das]

From what I understood is the following;

- When we are meditate on Naam, actually we're meditating on form and NOT formless. The puja of formeless could ONLY be done by a person who had attained Brahmgyan. How could we meditate on formless if we are NOT able to understand the formless, saying formless is NOT understanding. In the Brahmgyan stage, the eye to see and understand the Nirgun/formless is opened. Till then we are meditating on form.

Nirgun de puja/worship should be done with 3 flowers: Saam (Ikagarta/Concentration), Sam (Samgristi), Bodh (Tat Gyan). And we normal people do NOT have all the 3 flowers that are required to do the meditation of formless.

When we meditate on Naam and put our dhayan/concentration on anything: Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Gurbani, Vikhaya, Our Guru (for religions other than Sikhism), Brahmgyani.....we are meditating on form and this is what we should do.........anything that has shape is called form. The rule is: Do the puja of form to reach the formless. i.e Meditate on Naam and concentrate on your Guru (Guru Granth Sahib Ji) to reach the formless.

[navjot2]

wow i cant improve on what das said. heres what i was going to say:

1. i think you worship Formless by rejecting all forms. Isnt that what is happening in JAAP.

2. in Sidh Gost (if i havent misunderstood) Guru Nanak says that if you continually worship Hadra Hajoor (god as everpresent) then you get absorbed into the Sunn (Void).

p.s. isnt this irrelevant because you should just be meditating on Naam?

[Matheen]

Naam is what is going to take us to Waheguru, the stages described are encountered on the way, so not entirely irrelevant - but focus should remain on Naam.

Where in Sidh Gost did you read that, I don't recall anything about 'sunn', but I could have missed it. Do you remember the line/paurri ?

[navjot2]

firstly i beg your pardon i did not mean to imply that any of the points in Gurbani are irrelevant i meant the question on how to worship without form. i dont know if that was clear.

Sidh Gost, Ang 941 of Guru Granth, salok 52: "Sunno sunn kahai sabẖ ko▫ī. Anhaṯ sunn kahā ṯe ho▫ī. Anhaṯ sunn raṯe se kaise. Jis ṯe upje ṯis hī jaise."

[Matheen]

Sidh Gost, Ang 941 of Guru Granth, salok 52: "Sunno sunn kahai sabẖ ko▫ī. Anhaṯ sunn kahā ṯe ho▫ī. Anhaṯ sunn raṯe se kaise. Jis ṯe upje ṯis hī jaise."

Thanks! the word 'void' threw me. 'Sunn' in gurmat doesn't mean 'void' as it does in Buddhism. As the lines before and after the one above show, 'sunn' is when one is merged in God.

You're right about thinking of God as hazra-hazoor all the time.