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Meaning of Mahakaal Shabad?


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What i wrote is correct. you have so called mentors who distort sikh philosophy in their own atheist way. then the moderators back them up. That is not the forum to have -a healthy debate.

Sikhsangat or Discoversikhi are forums to have healthy debates? Where they just delete your post? How about you running to mods on discoversikhi to get me banned? Was that part of the healthy debates too? Also, you were going to show me a quote from Guru Granth Sahib Ji where Mahakaal is used for GOD. Where is that quote? I have been waiting for two years. You also said Sikhism has nothing to do with Mohammed or Ramanand. What about that?

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The Khalsa Fauji,

What you think mahakaal means? Satan?

Mahakaal is a dude that loves liqor and cannabis. Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha says that a Sikh of Mahakaal must drink liqor and cannabis as instructed by Dasam Granth. Scan from Gurmat Maartund is linked below:

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?qui...tp0&thumb=5

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Mahakaal is a dude that loves liqor and cannabis. Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha says that a Sikh of Mahakaal must drink liqor and cannabis as instructed by Dasam Granth. Scan from Gurmat Maartund is linked below:

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?qui...tp0&thumb=5

Another lie. Charitras are in a dialogue form between a king and his minister. So any refrences in those cann't be interpreted as a teaching of dasam granth.

In Hindu mythology Mahakal is a reference to Lord Shiva. In Charitra 266 to which khalsa fauj seems to refer to deduce

mahakal. But in this charitra Shiv is refered as Rudar or shiva. For example Lady says to idol worshipper Brahmin

Tahan rudar aihan ke sri krishan aihain

Jahan bandh sri kal teko chale hain

( Will Hindu God shiva or krishna will come to your aid ?

when Lord of death will take you)

The lady is telling Brahmin not to have any faith in these demi Gods. She tells Brahmin about mahakal

Nahin jan jaee kachhu roop rekha

( It cann't be known about His color, image and residence)

So obviously mahakal is great kal or descructive name of God. This charitra shows trickery of the lady wherein she condemns the idol worshipper Brahmin.

Lastly this refrence of mahakal in the scanned page in no way defines mahakal as a Hindu deity. Meanings of mahakal is given by Bhai kahan singh ji Nabha in Mahan kosh. Read below

ਮਹਾਕਾਲ - (ਸੰਗਯਾ) (1) ਕਾਲ ਦਾ ਭੀ ਕਾਲ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ. ਯਮ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਆਦਿ ਜਗਤ ਦਾ ਅੰਤ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਭੀ ਜਿਸ ਵਿੱਚ ਲੈ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ. ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ।ਪਾਰਭ੍ਰਹਮ।''ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਰਖਵਾਰ ਹਮਾਰੋ'' (ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾਵਤਾਰ). (2) ਉਹ ਲੰਮਾ ਸਮਾਂ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਅੰਤ ਅਸੀਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਣ ਸਕਦੇ।(3) ਸਮੇਂ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਕਰਤਾ ਹਰਤਾ ਮੰਨਣ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਮਤ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਅਨੰਤ ਰੂਪ ਕਾਲ।...''ਗਯਾਨ ਹੂੰ ਕੇ ਗਯਾਤਾ ਮਹਾ ਬੁੱਧਿਤਾ ਕੇ ਦਾਤਾ ਦੇਵ, ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕੇ ਕਾਲ ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕਾ ਕਾਲ ਹੌਂ'' (ਅਕਾਲ ਉਸਤਤ)

('ਮਹਾਨ ਕੋਸ਼' ਭਾਈ ਕਾਹਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਨਾਭਾ)

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Sikhsangat or Discoversikhi are forums to have healthy debates? Where they just delete your post? How about you running to mods on discoversikhi to get me banned? Was that part of the healthy debates too? Also, you were going to show me a quote from Guru Granth Sahib Ji where Mahakaal is used for GOD. Where is that quote? I have been waiting for two years. You also said Sikhism has nothing to do with Mohammed or Ramanand. What about that?

i do not know what you are talking about. But it is very obvious that mahakal is a refrence to God. God is a creator and destroyer also. It is kirtam nam of God. If God takes care of our upbringing , he is Gopal. If God brings death to us , he is Kal or Mahakal. Read Jaap sahib and you will know.

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Mahakaal is another name for death (or being bound to time or Sargun aspect of Lord).

Mahakaal can also be called Shiv, because Shiv represents destructive face of trinity (creation, maintenance and destruction).

ਜਹਾ ਲੋਭੁ ਤਹ ਕਾਲੁ ਹੈ ਜਹਾ ਖਿਮਾ ਤਹ ਆਪਿ ॥ ੧੫੫॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੭੨}

Jahaa Lobh Tah Kaal Hai Jahaa Khimaa Tah Aap || 155||

Where there is greed, there is death (Kaal). Where there is forgiveness, there is God. 155.

ਤਿਥੈ ਕਾਲੁ ਨ ਸੰਚਰੈ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ ੬॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੫੫}

Thithai Kaal Na Sunchrai Joatee Joat Smaaye|| 6||

Kaal (death) doesn’t reach there; the light merges with The Light. 6.

ਕਾਲੁ ਅਕਾਲੁ ਖਸਮ ਕਾ ਕੀਨ੍‍ਾ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਪੰਚੁ ਬਧਾਵਨੁ ॥ ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਤੇ ਅੰਤੇ ਮੁਕਤੇ ਜਿਨ੍‍ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਾਮ ਰਸਾਇਨੁ ॥ ੨॥ ੬॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੧੦੪}

Kaal Akaal Khasam Kaa Keenhaa Eh Parpunch Badhavan || Kahe Kabeer Tay Nar Untay Muktay Jinh Hirdai Raam Rsaaen || 2|| 6||

Death is the creation of Timeless Husband Lord. This creation is just a drama for God. Says Kabeer, those who have the master of delicacies, God, in their hearts, they are emancipated in the end. 2. 6.

Are you a Sikh of the creation or the creator? Choice is yours.

i do not know what you are talking about. But it is very obvious that mahakal is a refrence to God. God is a creator and destroyer also. It is kirtam nam of God. If God takes care of our upbringing , he is Gopal. If God brings death to us , he is Kal or Mahakal. Read Jaap sahib and you will know.

Kirtam means made up, fake, etc. We don't recite made up or fake names. We recite Sat Naam as given in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

ਕਿਰਤਮ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੇ ਤੇਰੇਰੇ ਜਿਹਬਾ ॥ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੇਰਾ ਪਰਾ ਪੂਰੂਰਬਲਾ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ ੧੦੮੨}

ਆਪਣੇ ਲਈ ਕੋਈ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਆਪਣੀ ਜੀਭ ਤੋਂ ਕਥ ਲਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਰੱਬ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਣ ਜਾਂਦਾ। ‘ਸਤਿਨਾਮ ਤੇਰਾ ਪਰਾ ਪੂਰਬਲਾ’ ਦੀ ਅਸਲੀਅਤ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਮੱੁਢ ਕਦੀਮ ਤੋਂ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮ ਹੀ ਸੱਚਾ ਹੈ।

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Can someone post jaap sahib stanza where it talks about mahakaal? That should seal the debate.

Let me post Guru Granth Sahib Ji quote to seal the debate.

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਜਪਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਲਾਲੁ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਤੂ ਜੀਵਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਨ ਖਾਈ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕੋਟਿ ਜਨਮ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਇਓ ॥ ਬਡੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗੁ ਪਾਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਉਧਾਰੁ ॥ ਬਾਬਾ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਏਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥੨॥੧੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 885-886}

ਪਦਅਰਥ: ਤੂੰ ਜੀਵਹਿ—ਤੂੰ ਜੀਊਂਦਾ ਰਹੇਂਗਾ, ਤੈਨੂੰ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਰਹੇਗਾ। ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲੁ—ਭਿਆਨਕ ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ। ੧। ਰਹਾਉ।

ਕੋਟਿ—ਕ੍ਰੋੜਾਂ। ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ—ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਭਟਕ ਭਟਕ ਕੇ। ਆਇਓ—ਤੂੰ (ਇਸ ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਜਨਮ ਵਿਚ) ਆਇਆ ਹੈਂ। ਵਡੈ ਭਾਗਿ—ਵੱਡੀ ਕਿਸਮਤ ਨਾਲ। ਪਾਇਓ—ਤੂੰ ਹਾਸਲ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ। ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗੁ—ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਸਾਥ।੧।

ਉਧਾਰੁ—(ਕ੍ਰੋੜਾਂ ਜਨਮਾਂ ਤੋਂ) ਪਾਰ—ਉਤਾਰਾ। ਬਾਬਾ—ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ—ਨਾਨਕ ਦੱਸਦਾ ਹੈ।੨।

ਅਰਥ: ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਗੋਬਿੰਦ (ਦਾ ਨਾਮ) ਜਪਿਆ ਕਰ, ਸੋਹਣੇ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਜਪਿਆ ਕਰ। ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿਆ ਕਰ, (ਜਿਉਂ ਜਿਉਂ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰੇਂਗਾ) ਤੈਨੂੰ ਉੱਚਾ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਰਹੇਗਾ। ਭਿਆਨਕ ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ (ਤੇਰੇ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਨੂੰ) ਫਿਰ ਕਦੇ ਮੁਕਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕੇਗੀ।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! (ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਕਿਸਮਾਂ ਦੇ) ਕ੍ਰੋੜਾਂ ਜਨਮਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਭਟਕ ਕੇ (ਹੁਣ ਤੂੰ ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਜਨਮ ਵਿਚ) ਆਇਆ ਹੈਂ, (ਤੇ, ਇਥੇ) ਵੱਡੀ ਕਿਸਮਤ ਨਾਲ (ਤੈਨੂੰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਸਾਥ ਮਿਲ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ।੧।

ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਨਾਨਕ (ਤੈਨੂੰ) ਇਹ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਦੱਸਦਾ ਹੈ-ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪੈਣ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ (ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਤੋਂ) ਪਾਰ-ਉਤਾਰਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ।੨।੧੧।

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Are you a Sikh of the creation or the creator? Choice is yours.

As per your view of Gurmat, is Creator separate from creation?

Yes, Mahakaal is mentioned by Fifth Master as death.

ਜਪਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਲਾਲੁ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਤੂ ਜੀਵਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਨ ਖਾਈ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲੁ ॥੧॥

But another name for Mahakaal, Shiv (be carefull, it is not Mahesh) has been mentioned many times as consciousness of Lord's Sargun saroop. Same Shiv which Dasam Patshah is addressing to in ਦੇਹਿ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਰੁ shabad appears on panna 21, 163, 291, 332, 873, 887 and many times more.

So Khalsa ji, what is wrong if Shiv or Mahakal (Sargun saroop of Nirgun Lord) is addressed in Dasam Patshah's writings?

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As per your view of Gurmat, is Creator separate from creation?

Yes, Mahakaal is mentioned by Fifth Master as death.

ਜਪਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਲਾਲੁ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਤੂ ਜੀਵਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਨ ਖਾਈ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲੁ ॥੧॥

But another name for Mahakaal, Shiv (be carefull, it is not Mahesh) has been mentioned many times as consciousness of Lord's Sargun saroop. Same Shiv which Dasam Patshah is addressing to in ਦੇਹਿ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਰੁ shabad appears on panna 21, 163, 291, 332, 873, 887 and many times more.

So Khalsa ji, what is wrong if Shiv or Mahakal (Sargun saroop of Nirgun Lord) is addressed in Dasam Patshah's writings?

Creator is the creator of creation.

As said before, you definition of sargun is based on vedant mat which is causing problems. Sargun means the one who is sarab srayst meaning great of all or most sublime.

Other than that, Gurbani says:

ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖ ਨ ਰੰਗੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਗੁਣ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਿੰਨ ॥ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ॥ ੧॥ {Page 283}

Also, Shiva doesn't mean Shiv in Chandi Charier. Shows you haven't read Chandi Chariter with understanding. Why are you guys debating a granth none of you have actually read from head to toe?

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Question again, is Creator separate from creation or creation part of Creator Himself?

I think khalsa fauj does not understand this. But Gurbani is very clear.

ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ ॥

ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥੧॥:

Tohee mohee mohee tohee antar kaisaa.

Kanak katik jal trang jaisaa ||1||:

You are me, and I am You—what is the difference between us?

We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves ||1||

ang 93

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In jaap sahib Guru sahib writes

tav sarab nam kathe kavan karam nam barnat sumat

Who can express all your names

That is why wise men have described only your functional names

Jaap sahib , Dasam granth

So all the names given to God are functional names be it Ram , Gopal, Muru, Kal or Maha kal.

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In jaap sahib Guru sahib writes

tav sarab nam kathe kavan karam nam barnat sumat

Who can express all your names

That is why wise men have described only your functional names

Jaap sahib , Dasam granth

So all the names given to God are functional names be it Ram , Gopal, Muru, Kal or Maha kal.

Show me Guru Granth Sahib Ji quote where Kaal or Mahakaal is used for God. What is your definition of functional names? Any names describing actions that occur? Kaal is death, mahakaal is an even worse death, spiritual death and Gurbani says to stay away from Mahakaal. Why would Guru Ji tell us to stay away from Mahakaal if it is God or an attribute of God? Clearly, you are just making general statements to proveyourself. How does God get 4 arms since God doesn't have any attributes? Read bachitter natak which says that God has 4 arms. Quote is chatur baah chaarung. Look it up.

I think khalsa fauj does not understand this. But Gurbani is very clear.

ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ ॥

ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥੧॥:

Tohee mohee mohee tohee antar kaisaa.

Kanak katik jal trang jaisaa ||1||:

You are me, and I am You—what is the difference between us?

We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves ||1||

ang 93

You are the one who doens't understand. That quote is talking about the union betweent he soul and God. It has nothing to do with physical attributes. Any time you say God has arms or grinding teeth, you go against Mool Mantar's philosophy of Nirankaar, Akaal Moorat.

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You are the one who doens't understand. That quote is talking about the union betweent he soul and God. It has nothing to do with physical attributes. Any time you say God has arms or grinding teeth, you go against Mool Mantar's philosophy of Nirankaar, Akaal Moorat.

Khalsa fauji

You are still not understanding. Soul is creation and God is creator. Is soul not a part of parm atma? Then where is the difference.

Here is another

ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਈ ॥:

khaalik khalak khalak mehi khaalik poor rahiou srab thaa(n)ee:

The Creation is in the Creator (God), and the Creator is in the Creation,

totally pervading and permeating all places

ang 1350

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Khalsa fauj you should start to study the concept of nirgun, sargun and avatarvaad.. What you say makes no sense if we compare it to the shabads in Gurbani:

How does God get 4 arms since God doesn't have any attributes? Read bachitter natak which says that God has 4 arms. Quote is chatur baah chaarung. Look it up.

O humble people, link your mind to the Lord.

Through cleverness, the four-armed Lord is not obtained. ||Pause||

Set aside your greed and worldly ways.

Set aside sexual desire, anger and egotism. ||2||

If God does'nt have any attributes then why does Gurbani say this:

The Great Lord Master is unfathomable and infinite. ||6||

Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful.

Your nose is so graceful, and Your hair is so long.

Your body is so precious, cast in gold.

His body is cast in gold, and He wears Krishna's mala; meditate on Him, O sisters.

You shall not have to stand at Death's door, O sisters, if you listen to these teachings.

Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. ||7||

Your walk is so graceful, and Your speech is so sweet.

You coo like a songbird, and your youthful beauty is alluring.

Your youthful beauty is so alluring; it pleases You, and it fulfills the heart's desires.

Like an elephant, You step with Your Feet so carefully; You are satisfied with Yourself.

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Khalsa fauj you should start to study the concept of nirgun, sargun and avatarvaad.. What you say makes no sense if we compare it to the shabads in Gurbani:

O humble people, link your mind to the Lord.

Through cleverness, the four-armed Lord is not obtained. ||Pause||

Set aside your greed and worldly ways.

Set aside sexual desire, anger and egotism. ||2||

If God does'nt have any attributes then why does Gurbani say this:

The Great Lord Master is unfathomable and infinite. ||6||

Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful.

Your nose is so graceful, and Your hair is so long.

Your body is so precious, cast in gold.

His body is cast in gold, and He wears Krishna's mala; meditate on Him, O sisters.

You shall not have to stand at Death's door, O sisters, if you listen to these teachings.

Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. ||7||

Your walk is so graceful, and Your speech is so sweet.

You coo like a songbird, and your youthful beauty is alluring.

Your youthful beauty is so alluring; it pleases You, and it fulfills the heart's desires.

Like an elephant, You step with Your Feet so carefully; You are satisfied with Yourself.

Those aarth are wrong. You are are talking about the Sohnay Nakh Jin Lamray Vaalah shabad.

I would love to post aarths of that shabad here but I don't want to release someone's work before it is published. The book should be out in about 40 days so just be patient or watch video by Gyani Baldev Singh by going to www.google.com and typing in Gyani Baldev Singh.

Let me link them below:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=22...94541&hl=en

You can watch the related videos from the related links.

If we go by the aarths that are posted, whole mool mantar gets proven wrong. Gurbani aarths don't conradict so proper aarths must be done. You might also be thinking about posting shabad from Pg. 1082 but aarths of that shabad will also be in the book by Gyani Baldev Singh. This book will be released soon as it take time for shipment to arrive in ship. You can get the Toronto buddies to post the translations here when the book comes out. You will know that the aarths above are totally wrong.

Gurmat rejects avtaarvaad and I already told you what sargun means. Sargun means sarab srayst meaning most sublime or greatest of all.

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How does it get proven wrong? Show us.

Gurbani says:

Roop Na Raikh Na Rung Kish Treh Guon Tay Prabh Bhin || Tishe Boojhaaye Naankaa Jis Hovay Suparsun || 1 || {Page 283 of Guru Granth Sahib Ji}

Isn't 4 arms a roop? In order to have 4 arms, there must be dayh. Gurbani says:

Dayh Na Nayh Na Gayh Na Neettaa Maaya Mutt Kahaa Lao Gaarhu || Shattarr Na Pattar Na Chaour Na Chaavan Bahttee Jaatt Ridai Na Bechaarhu|| {Page 1388 of Guru Granth Sahib Ji}

Burn Chehan Naahe Mukh Na Maasaaraa || Kahan Na Jaaee Khail Tuhaaraa || {Page 746 of Guru Granth Sahib Ji}

I don't blame you guys for believing what you do about God because the aarths that have been given to us by derawala don't do justice to truth. There will be a book released in future discussing many of these shabads.

Let me post the Table of Contents mentioning which shabads are translated in the book. The title of the book is Pandit Mulla Jo Likh Deeaa Shaad Chlay Hum Kashoo Na Leeaa.

ਆਰੰਭਕਾ..........................................................................

..........ੜੀ

ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਨਾਮਾ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਉਚਰੈ .......................................................... ੧

ਬਾਬਾ ਫਿਰ ਮਕੇ ਗਯਾ.....................................................................੮

ਨਾਮਾ ਛੀਂਬਾ ਆਖੀਐ...................................................................੧੦

ਹਸਤ ਖੇਲਤ ਤੇਰੇ ਦੇਹੁਰੇ ਆਇਆ ......................................................੧੨

ਮੋ ਕਉ ਤੂੰ ਨ ਬਿਸਾਰਿ ਤੂ ਨ ਬਿਸਾਰਿ .................................................. ੧੬

ਪਾੜ ਪੜੋਸਣਿ ਪੂਛਿ ਲੇ ਨਾਮਾ ..............................................................੨੦

ਸੁਲਤਾਨੁ ਪੂਛੈ ਸੁਨੁ ਬੇ ਨਾਮਾ.............................................................੨੮

ਦੂਧੁ ਕਟੋਰੈ ਗਡਵੈ ਪਾਨੀ ....................................................................੫੨

ਕਰਿ ਅਬਦਾਲੀ ਭੇਸਵਾ.....................................................................੫੯

ਧਨਿ ਧੰਨਿ ਓ ਰਾਮ ਬੇਨੁ ਬਾਜੈ .............................................................. ੬੪

ਜਉ ਗੁਰਦੇਉ ਸਿਹਜ ਨਿਕਸਾਈ ........................................................੭੧

ਭਗਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਜੀ ........................................................................੭੬

ਨਾ ਤੂ ਆਵਹਿ ਵਸਿ ....................................................................੮੨

ਮੇਰੀ ਬਾਂਧੀ ਭਗਤੁ ਛਡਾਵੈ ...............................................................੮੪

ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਮਾਲਾ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਬਿਰਾਜਿਤ ਦੇਖਿ ਪ੍ਰਤਾਪੁ ਜਮੁ ਡਰਿਓ..............................੮੬

ਤੇਰੇ ਬੰਕੇ ਲੋਇਣ ਦੰਤ ਰੀਸਾਲਾ .........................................................੯੧

ਅਪਨੇ ਛੂਟਨ ਕੋ ਜਤਨੁ ਕਰਹੁ .......................................................... ੯੩

ਸੁਨਹੁ ਜਿਠਾਨੀ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਦਿਰਾਨੀ ........................................................ ੯੮

ਮੇਰੀ ਪਟੀਆ ਲਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗੋਪਾਲਾ.......................................... ੧੦੩

ਆਪੇ ਦੈਤ ਲਾਇ ਦਿਤੇ....................................................................੧੧੨

ਸੰਡਾ ਮਰਕਾ ਜਾਇ ਪੁਕਾਰੇ................................................................੧੧੭

ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਪਠਾਏ ਪੜਨ ਸਾਲ ..........................................................੧੨੨

ਮੇਰੀ ਪਟੀਆ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੇਹੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ............................................... ੧੨੭

ਗੰਗ ਗੁਸਾਇਨਿ ਗਹਿਰ ਗੰਭੀਰ .......................................................... ੧੩੭

ਭੁਜਾ ਬਾਂਧਿ ਭਿਲਾ ਕਰਿ ਡਾਰਿਓ..........................................................੧੪੦

ਰਾਜਨ ਕਉਨੁ ਤੁਮਾਰੈ ਆਵੈ ...............................................................੧੪੫

ਨੀਚ ਜਾਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਤਿਆ ਉਤਮ ਪਦਵੀ ਪਾਇ ........................................੧੫੧

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਤ ਪੂਰਾ ਪਾਈਐ..........................................................੧੫੪

ਆਇਆ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਬਿਦਰ ਦੇ .............................................................੧੬੨

ਅਜਾਮਲ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ਕੀਨੀ.........................................................੧੭੪

ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ.............................................................੧੮੧

ਅਚੁਤ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ..................................................੧੮੪

ਪੁਤˆØੀ ਗੰਢੁ ਪਵੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ.................................................................. ੨੦੨

ਬਿਧਵਾ ਕਸ ਨ ਭਈ ਮਹਤਾਰੀ.......................................................੨੦੯

ਘਰ ਮਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ........................................................੨੧੪

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The Khalsa Fauji,

I understand what you are trying to say, i wanted to know how do you feel having debate via books? I understand hard copy books requires quite bit of funding but now days we live in day and age where one can easily create a e book- pdf format.

I still think debates via book is best. Video/audio debate will only work with neutral people being moderator catching any personal attacks or off-topics, sort of soccer referee observing everything very closely and whistle for anyone who is breaking the rules of debate.

on a side note: what you think about video debate between inderjit ghagha vs kulbir singh? did u like the settings? the tones from both parties? was it one sided? any off-topics you noticed?

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Khalsa fauj you should start to study the concept of nirgun, sargun and avatarvaad.. What you say makes no sense if we compare it to the shabads in Gurbani:

O humble people, link your mind to the Lord.

Through cleverness, the four-armed Lord is not obtained. ||Pause||

Set aside your greed and worldly ways.

Set aside sexual desire, anger and egotism. ||2||

If God does'nt have any attributes then why does Gurbani say this:

The Great Lord Master is unfathomable and infinite. ||6||

Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful.

Your nose is so graceful, and Your hair is so long.

Your body is so precious, cast in gold.

His body is cast in gold, and He wears Krishna's mala; meditate on Him, O sisters.

You shall not have to stand at Death's door, O sisters, if you listen to these teachings.

Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. ||7||

Your walk is so graceful, and Your speech is so sweet.

You coo like a songbird, and your youthful beauty is alluring.

Your youthful beauty is so alluring; it pleases You, and it fulfills the heart's desires.

Like an elephant, You step with Your Feet so carefully; You are satisfied with Yourself.

You call yourself a Sikh, yet you are willing to twist the meaning of only one line at a time from Gurbani to prove your point instead of analyzing the whole shabad.

Here is a simple guide for you to understand Gurbani. You should normally start with one or two lines ending with Rahao. This gives you the central idea of the Shabad. Once you get the central idea, the rest of Shabad Gyan revolves around that central idea. If you are unable to make sense of a shabad in that way, then you should read the preceding and the following shabads to get more detailed meaning of the shabad. Your interpretation of the shabad or any lines MUST NOT AT ALL TIMES violate the basic analyses of Mool Mantar.

Now getting back to your lack of knowledge, click on the following link http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0324.html and read the meaning of the complete shabad and while you are at it enlighten yourself with a few more shabads preceding the one you quoted from Kabir ji Gauri. If the Pad Arth says Four Arm God, Prof. Sahib Singh ji never uses the word in his analyses. That is because if you folks were to read the Bhaav Arth, especially the NOTE at the bottom of the shabad, then you would have definitely noticed that Prof. ji went on to relate this Four Arm God to an idol (Murti). If you can focus for a second or two, you will notice that these shabads are being addressed to the Jogi, Sadhus, and Brahmins of Banaris, from where called Nirmala Panth started.

Regarding your second reference, you should follow the same rules listed above and read (band 7) of the shabad with the note inside the brackets, to gain some knowledge about Gurbani. Here is the link:

http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/0567.html

Mod's edit

Based on your analyzes, I am NOT surprised at all that you boys will interpret (Kali, Bhavani, Mahakal, Chandi, Durga and any other name Raam, Shyam or Kal listed in Dasam Granth) as GOD himself.

It’s only here I agree with N30 Singh that the wounded Lion is more dangerous with the word wounded being replaced with Pretentious, of course!

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