Balbir Singh Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Balbir singh ji I have not understood what you are trying to say. it looks that you are not able to understand Punjabi script. Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Singh2 Jee! I try to express my curiosity again. Should the translator mix his words and thoughts in the Guru's Vaaks? Your referred translators are all wrong if the answer is no. It may be right that I am not able to understand Punjabi Script. Should I try to learn it further or not? Quote "The issue was about word akal purakh being in dasam granth or not." I requested you to find where in the Dasam Granth Jee the word 'Akaal Purakh' occurs. You found it. Thanks again for this. Please do not make this an issue and come back to the topic. The issue is why are you referring wrong translations of Dasam Granth Sahib. It is because of the wrong translations that some feel like rejecting valuable Guru's Hymns which are full of wisdom. Balbir Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Balbir singh ji I am not genius. I am just an ordinary sikh of my Guru sahib. only Guru sahib is knowing all. per me limited rachha is protector and rachhia is defence or protection.May i know what is correct transaltion? Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Singh2 Jee! Maybe I can learn something in your Satsang. Let us ponder over it. Gurdev used the word racchaa for Akaal Purakh. In the next three Vaaks HE used the word racchiaa for Sarab Loh and Sarab Kaal. Why? Let us meditate over it. Maybe tomorrow we are smarter by the grace of God. Balbir Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Singh2 Jee! Maybe I can learn something in your Satsang. Let us ponder over it. Gurdev used the word racchaa for Akaal Purakh. In the next three Vaaks HE used the word racchiaa for Sarab Loh and Sarab Kaal. Why? Let us meditate over it. Maybe tomorrow we are smarter by the grace of God. Balbir Singh I thought the thread was on Chaubis avtar. If you want to discuss that Can we stick to the thread? You had one question and that was answered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Balbir singh ji Your original quest was not for knowing correct translations. Your original quest is given below. Are you changing your quest now. if so we ca n concentrate on that. Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal! Dear Singh2 Jee! My quest is not changed. Their number is perhaps increased. Please explain any of those. I will try to understand. Balbir Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal! Dear Singh2 Jee! My quest is not changed. Their number is perhaps increased. Please explain any of those. I will try to understand. Balbir Singh But keep the sanctity of thread in mind. Do not hijack the thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 All the chaubis avtar posts has been moved in this thread. Please stick to the topic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Singh2 Jee! In the first post you wrote "Persons propagating against Dasam granth say that Dasam bani is full of eulogy for Hindu devtas." Please explain if these are Sikh Devtas or Avtaars, Gurdev is talking about. Quote "They say so because it has stories of Avtars." Are you sure that these are mere stories? Quote "Their statement stems out of ignorance as Dasam granth is more explicit in denouncing avtarvad than SGGS ji." May I ask why Gurdev has given it the title 'Chaubees Avtaar' and explained it elaborately when HE rejects Avtaravaad? Quote "That shows the haters of Guru Gobind singh sahib's bani have either not read Dasam Granth or they have not understood it." They might have read the Dasam Granth but they have perhaps understood the wrong translations provided by the pro Dasam Granth Lobby. Quote "The purpose of this thread is to invite them for discussion so that they reveal basis of their conclusions." Please show your love toward them. They may come here. I also welcome them. Balbir Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all! Akaal Ustat is the great and wonderful collection of Hymns from Guru Gobind Singh Jee. I hope Singh2 Jee answers the curiosities he has raised in me. He may start a new thread when he wants with his answers. Balbir Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all! Akaal Ustat is the great and wonderful collection of Hymns from Guru Gobind Singh Jee. I hope Singh2 Jee answers the curiosities he has raised in me. He may start a new thread when he wants with his answers. Balbir Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all! Akaal Ustat is the great and wonderful collection of Hymns from Guru Gobind Singh Jee. I hope Singh2 Jee answers the curiosities he has raised in me. He may start a new thread when he wants with his answers. Balbir Singh Balbir singh ji Yes it is. You will find name akal purakh only in Dasam Granth. The invocation of chaubees avtar we have discussed partly is also named Akal ustat. Then come the stories of individual avtars. It gives the whole understanding of sikh view of these avtars. There is nothing to ask about the status of these avtars once we read invocation. Invocation is to be kept in mind when reading stories of different avtars. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Balbir Singh, you seem to be up to your old tricks again. Why don't you try a change of tactic - just express your opinion on the subject clearly rather than playing manipulating and condescending games, this way, people may actually take you seriously. Everything is a not huge mystery - Dasmesh Pita reiterates and translates the Chaubis Avtaar of Vishnu which are rooted in the Bhagavata Purana. Guru Ji namely focuses on 3 Avtaars - Sri Krishna, Sri Ram Chandra and Nehkalanki - the Dharm Yudh aspect is especially focused on, as well as the the supremity of Karta Purkh as their creator. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 They might have read the Dasam Granth but they have perhaps understood the wrong translations provided by the pro Dasam Granth Lobby. Balbir singh ji Read below ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਦਿਕ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਪਚਹਾਰੇ ॥ ब्रहमादिक सभ ही पचहारे ॥ Brahma and others have got tired in knowing Thy end; ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ੍ਵਰ ਕਉਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੇ ॥ बिसन महेस्वर कउन बिचारे ॥ Who are the helpless gods Vishnu and Shiva? ਚੰਦ ਸੂਰ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਰੇ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥ चंद सूर जिनि करे बिचारा ॥ The sun and moon also meditate on Thee; ਤਾ ਤੇ ਜਨੀਯਤ ਹੈ ਕਰਤਾਰਾ ॥੧੪॥ ता ते जनीयत है करतारा ॥१४॥ Therefore Thou art known as the Creator.14 Chaubis avtar, dasam granth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear Singh2 Jee! Please answer my questions. Balbir Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear Singh2 Jee! Please answer my questions. Balbir Singh Read the answer below. trinity itself is there. ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਦਿਕ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਪਚਹਾਰੇ ॥ ब्रहमादिक सभ ही पचहारे ॥ Brahma and others have got tired in knowing Thy end; ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ੍ਵਰ ਕਉਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੇ ॥ बिसन महेस्वर कउन बिचारे ॥ Who are the helpless gods Vishnu and Shiva? ਚੰਦ ਸੂਰ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਰੇ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥ चंद सूर जिनि करे बिचारा ॥ The sun and moon also meditate on Thee; ਤਾ ਤੇ ਜਨੀਯਤ ਹੈ ਕਰਤਾਰਾ ॥੧੪॥ ता ते जनीयत है करतारा ॥१४॥ Therefore Thou art known as the Creator.14 Chaubis avtar, dasam granth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ दोहरा ॥ DOHRA ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਦੇਹਿ ਮੋ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ ॥ काल पुरख की देहि मो कोटिक बिसन महेस ॥ In the body of the Immanent Lord, million of Vishnus and Shivas abide. ਕੋਟਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਵਿ ਸਸਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਰ ਜਲੇਸ ॥੧॥ कोटि इंद्र ब्रहमा किते रवि ससि क्रोर जलेस ॥१॥ Million of Indras, Brahmas, Suryas, Chandras and Varunas are present thre in His divine body.1. (Vishnu avtar, Chaubis avtar, Dasam Granth) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Read the answer below. trinity itself is there. ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਦਿਕ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਪਚਹਾਰੇ ॥ ब्रहमादिक सभ ही पचहारे ॥ Brahma and others have got tired in knowing Thy end; ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ੍ਵਰ ਕਉਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੇ ॥ बिसन महेस्वर कउन बिचारे ॥ Who are the helpless gods Vishnu and Shiva? ਚੰਦ ਸੂਰ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਰੇ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥ चंद सूर जिनि करे बिचारा ॥ The sun and moon also meditate on Thee; ਤਾ ਤੇ ਜਨੀਯਤ ਹੈ ਕਰਤਾਰਾ ॥੧੪॥ ता ते जनीयत है करतारा ॥१४॥ Therefore Thou art known as the Creator.14 Chaubis avtar, dasam granth Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear Singh2 Jee! Guru Naanak Dev Jee used the word 'Akaal Moorati'. Guru Gobind Singh Jee used the word 'Akaal Purakh'. Are 'Moorati' and 'Purakh' expressing the same? ----- Thanks for referring the Chaupai. Please explain. Why the word 'bichaare' means helpless gods in one Vaak and 'bichaaraa' means meditate on Thee in the next Vaak? ----- Hearty Thanks for referring to the Dohra. ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ दोहरा ॥ DOHRA ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਦੇਹਿ ਮੋ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ ॥ काल पुरख की देहि मो कोटिक बिसन महेस ॥ In the body of the Immanent Lord, million of Vishnus and Shivas abide. ਕੋਟਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਵਿ ਸਸਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਰ ਜਲੇਸ ॥੧॥ कोटि इंद्र ब्रहमा किते रवि ससि क्रोर जलेस ॥१॥ Million of Indras, Brahmas, Suryas, Chandras and Varunas are present thre in His divine body.1. (Vishnu avtar, Chaubis avtar, Dasam Granth) Millions of Vishnus, Shivas, Indra, Brahma, Suns, Moons and Jales are in the body of the Immanent Lord. Please ponder. Is God different from HIS Body? Balbir Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Guru Naanak Dev Jee used the word 'Akaal Moorati'. Guru Gobind Singh Jee used the word 'Akaal Purakh'. Are 'Moorati' and 'Purakh' expressing the same? It is not moorati. it is Moorat. . For me there is no difference. What do you think ----- ----- Millions of Vishnus, Shivas, Indra, Brahma, Suns, Moons and Jales are in the body of the Immanent Lord. Please ponder. Is God different from HIS Body? Please tell me what is meant by Avtar per hinduism? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 It is not moorati. it is Moorat. . For me there is no difference. What do you think Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear Singh2 Jee! Please read Guru Granth Sahib Jee again. Is the word 'Moorati' with sihaaree or without sihaaree? Balbir Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Balbir ji Please answer the following Please tell me what is meant by Avtar per hinduism? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Singh2 Jee! Please ask me something easy. I am not an expert on Hindu Religion. I have heard Inder Singh Ghagga, a Canadian person. He has studied a lot about Hindu Religion. He gives long lectures on Hindu values. Such Sikhs are working hard to convince others with Hindu values. A friend told me that in some Gurdwaras Sikh Sangat enjoys his lectures on Hinduism and also pays him some money for it. I am born Sikh and love to have Satsangs about true Sikh values with everyone. A true Sikh, in my view, is a pure human being. We may talk about Avtaars in the future when you feel they are also God's Folk. Balbir Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Singh2 Jee! Please ask me something easy. I am not an expert on Hindu Religion. I have heard Inder Singh Ghagga, a Canadian person. He has studied a lot about Hindu Religion. He gives long lectures on Hindu values. Such Sikhs are working hard to convince others with Hindu values. A friend told me that in some Gurdwaras Sikh Sangat enjoys his lectures on Hinduism and also pays him some money for it. I am born Sikh and love to have Satsangs about true Sikh values with everyone. A true Sikh, in my view, is a pure human being. We may talk about Avtaars in the future when you feel they are also God's Folk. Balbir Singh Balbir ji I know who you are. Let me tell you frankly You are here to defend Hindutva ideology. You are not a sikh. Had you been a sikh the following would have satisfied. , as well as the the supremacy of Karta Purkh being as their creator. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal! Dear all and Singh2 Jee! Please ask me something easy. I am not an expert on Hindu Religion. I have heard Inder Singh Ghagga, a Canadian person. He has studied a lot about Hindu Religion. He gives long lectures on Hindu values. Such Sikhs are working hard to convince others with Hindu values. A friend told me that in some Gurdwaras Sikh Sangat enjoys his lectures on Hinduism and also pays him some money for it. I am born Sikh and love to have Satsangs about true Sikh values with everyone. A true Sikh, in my view, is a pure human being. We may talk about Avtaars in the future when you feel they are also God's Folk. Balbir Singh So you are impressed by the famous Kala Afghanist Inder Sinh Ghagha? If you want to learn about Hinduism then read the Bhagawat Gita or books written by the experts. Inder Ghagha is not an expert on any religion (including Sikhi/Gurmat) by an stretch of the imagination. He is a Hindu phobic hate monger. So to learn about Hinduism from such a person will obviously give one self a distorted picture of what Hinduism is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khalsa Fauj Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Inder Singh Ghagga is a Hindu hater, Hindu phobic, etc. How is he RSS then? Please tell me more. Is RSS against Hinduism? Thanks a lot in advance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Inder Singh Ghagga is a Hindu hater, Hindu phobic, etc. How is he RSS then? Please tell me more. Is RSS against Hinduism? Thanks a lot in advance. Inder ghagha claims he is firm believer in Bani of SGGS . Does bani teach him to hate other religions. That means he is a fake and fraudist who does not practice what he reads in SGGS ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khalsa Fauj Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Inder ghagha claims he is firm believer in Bani of SGGS . Does bani teach him to hate other religions. That means he is a fake and fraudist who does not practice what he reads in SGGS ji. Devi devteaa daa bdaa Dukh lagdaa. admin cut Just because Inder Singh Ghagga shows reality of devi devtas based on Guru Granth sahib Ji and history, he is full of hatred? How is he going against Guru Granth Sahib Ji by speaking truth about devi devtas? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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