Hew Mcleod Documentary (part 1)

[dalsingh101]

the english always claim they are the underdogs......but this is just the image they want to project of themselve. in reality, they are cunning, sly and very very thorough in planning and execution of what they do. which is a strategy that has worked well for them.

I would add that they always add an element of moral superiority in their contrived representations also. Everyone they have ever fought are somehow made to be deserving of defeat... ..even if they just some innocent half naked African tribe wondering around with spears and shields.

we have to expose these people, and use the same devices and instruments that other nations use to inspire patriotism in their lot. badal has to go.

Expose them? Does anyone actually not know what they are already? A large part of patriotism is how we are presented, as the WASPS learnt long ago and we alluded to above. We, on the other hand, allow bewakoofs like McLeod and his chumchay to make us look stupid because he throws in a few compliments now and then. This situation is analogous to being pimped. Where the odd close moment is thrown in with the usual barrage of back handers. Bring me my money biaatch.

it is hard to find out what sikhs back then thought of the english. some english accounts from travellers in the punjab say that most of the sikhs they met considered english women heavy drinkers, and thought that london was full of prostitutes. both of which were true, but not exactly deep insights which would have helped the khalsa in the upcoming wars.

Whilst we are studied minutely by our enemies, we go bumbling along like simple pindus. Your example above is telling, if true they indicate that some of those Panjabis were thinking from between their legs. lol I've never come across these references, where did you encounter them? Though I have heard that some of those in The AngloSikh wars wanted to grab the gorian at Delhi apparently.....randy sods. These things are claimed by contemporary goray and a sullah (Bute Shah), so have to be carefully considered. I don't doubt there may have been some in the fauj like that myself.

Errr, not really - its not that. Find some posh twats and see what happens.

What happens, tell me please. Do they not go off for a spot of wine and cheese tasting.....old chap...pwoar pwoar pwoar...don'tcha know?

Edited August 15, 2009 by dalsingh101

[dalsingh101]

We'll teach you to dare to defend your land, you darkie wog....take this....

[HSD1]

I would add that they always add an element of moral superiority in their contrived representations also. Everyone they have ever fought are somehow made to be deserving of defeat... ..even if they just some innocent half naked African tribe wondering around with spears and shields.

yep, in hind sight, to make up for the dubious reasons they get involved in all these wars. christian morality my ass.

Expose them? Does anyone actually not know what they are already? A large part of patriotism is how we are presented, as the WASPS learnt long ago and we alluded to above. We, on the other hand, allow bewakoofs like McLeod and his chumchay to make us look stupid because he throws in a few compliments now and then. This situation is analogous to being pimped. Where the odd close moment is thrown in with the usual barrage of back handers. Bring me my money biaatch.

you think so? many sikhs portray mcleod as a christian missionary or a special agent of western institutions trying to undermine the great sikhs of today. actually mcleod was just another white scholar who stumbled across a bunch of foreigners and made a living of giving his opinions on them. loads of them do this, mainly as they are asses with nothing better to do or any real skills.

Whilst we are studied minutely by our enemies, we go bumbling along like simple pindus. Your example above is telling, if true they indicate that some of those Panjabis were thinking from between their legs. lol I've never come across these references, where did you encounter them? Though I have heard that some of those in The AngloSikh wars wanted to grab the gorian at Delhi apparently.....randy sods. These things are claimed by contemporary goray and a sullah (Bute Shah), so have to be carefully considered. I don't doubt there may have been some in the fauj like that myself.

unfortunately my sources are from memory and quite vague. the one about english girls drinking was a quote i read from a british general/missionary after the anglo-sikh wars, who said that the new governors/administrators should encourage sikhs to take up other things rather than war in order to make a living, and then went on to say that something should be done to counter the attitude among sikhs that christian ladies (basically english women) are drinkers. the one about prostitutes came from a letter/diary of some english lady that were uploaded by one of her descendants or someone who found what she wrote. i found it on a blog a few years ago after i did a search on akalis. in this account the english girl was visiting lahore with some british diplomat. she tells of seeing the akhalis as fanatics and how they were wild eyed, aggressive, possibly taking stuff and not very well kept, which was similar to most other accounts by the english i found. the thing that struck me was that it then went on to say how she was approached by a sikh officer who spoke english, and after a bit asked her about whether london was full of prostitutes and if that all english women including the posh ones whored themselves to pay for britain's wars and empire. at this point she said her chaperone got between the two of them and tried to start a duel or whatever, which the english woman got quite excited about in her account, but the sikh officer was pulled away by some courtiers and the english officer and lady were told to follow some older english man around. she was a blonde, and not bad looking from the black and white pic on the blog, so it is possible that seeing a few white girls probably encouraged some of the khalsa troops to go rampaging across the border.

things dont change much. if we offered the punjab police and sikh regiments in the INA a pay rise, all the loot they could carry as well as some women, they would happily fight for khalistan.

What happens, tell me please. Do they not go off for a spot of wine and cheese tasting.....old chap...pwoar pwoar pwoar...don'tcha know?

its more like they look in your eyes.....they see something they havent seen in a century and a half.............then something inside of me rises, like the spirit of those brave sikhs at chillianwalla....................and then....................CHATKA! like the bloke ended up in the picture below:

seriously though, i cant explain it. its like a bizzare sense of animosity, which feels at odds with how i feel about other people when i first meet them regardless of their background.

Edited August 16, 2009 by HSD

[HSD1]

We'll teach you to dare to defend your land, you darkie wog....take this....

'lets go burn down their pubs! that'll teach those honkey island monkeys!'

btw where's your pic from?

[dalsingh101]

yep, in hind sight, to make up for the dubious reasons they get involved in all these wars. christian morality my ass.

Come on, its not like they are not still at it! Look at Iraq. look at how the morality is flexible also to needs i.e. Libya's recent welcome back with open arms for oil.

you think so? many sikhs portray mcleod as a christian missionary or a special agent of western institutions trying to undermine the great sikhs of today. actually mcleod was just another white scholar who stumbled across a bunch of foreigners and made a living of giving his opinions on them. loads of them do this, mainly as they are asses with nothing better to do or any real skills.

He was doing exactly what the tossers did before in the late 1700s. He was sizing us up and exposing potential weak points with his "research" that whitey can use to show us what a bunch of divs we are, and also discuss amongst each other smugly. Have you not noticed how everything whitey believes about himself is plainly fact, but the rest of us are incapable of knowing ourselves and need them to do it for us.

unfortunately my sources are from memory and quite vague. the one about english girls drinking was a quote i read from a british general/missionary after the anglo-sikh wars, who said that the new governors/administrators should encourage sikhs to take up other things rather than war in order to make a living, and then went on to say that something should be done to counter the attitude among sikhs that christian ladies (basically english women) are drinkers. the one about prostitutes came from a letter/diary of some english lady that were uploaded by one of her descendants or someone who found what she wrote. i found it on a blog a few years ago after i did a search on akalis. in this account the english girl was visiting lahore with some british diplomat. she tells of seeing the akhalis as fanatics and how they were wild eyed, aggressive, possibly taking stuff and not very well kept, which was similar to most other accounts by the english i found. the thing that struck me was that it then went on to say how she was approached by a sikh officer who spoke english, and after a bit asked her about whether london was full of prostitutes and if that all english women including the posh ones whored themselves to pay for britain's wars and empire. at this point she said her chaperone got between the two of them and tried to start a duel or whatever, which the english woman got quite excited about in her account, but the sikh officer was pulled away by some courtiers and the english officer and lady were told to follow some older english man around. she was a blonde, and not bad looking from the black and white pic on the blog, so it is possible that seeing a few white girls probably encouraged some of the khalsa troops to go rampaging across the border.

Man that is interesting. I wish we could find that again. You have to be careful though, we have some amongst us that think all Sikhs were pious during this glorious raj and would never do such a thing.

things dont change much. if we offered the punjab police and sikh regiments in the INA a pay rise, all the loot they could carry as well as some women, they would happily fight for khalistan.

You know we have the "Ha ah ha!", moustache twisting "brothers" amongst us, who, judging by all the Panjabi movies of the 1980s have a balatkaari tendency. You know the type, that get turned on by ripping off a girls chunni off her head and chasing her through the khet...whilst the hapless creature screams "Bechow! Bechow!", only to be met with more seriously twisted and evil sounding laughter......

seriously though, i cant explain it. its like a bizzare sense of animosity, which feels at odds with how i feel about other people when i first meet them regardless of their background.

I have to admit, now that I think about it, my limited exposure to toffs have been quite okay, now I recall them. They generally abstain from calling you paki, and mostly treat you better than a working class "he turnt around and sed, and then she turnt around and goes" guy. Even if they think you are a lower form of life. I think it may be that. You are sensing that they feel you are inferior and are indignant at the thought (albeit subconsciously). lol

Edited August 16, 2009 by dalsingh101

[dalsingh101]

Duplicate

Edited August 16, 2009 by dalsingh101

[HSD1]

He was doing exactly what the tossers did before in the late 1700s. He was sizing us up and exposing potential weak points with his "research" that whitey can use to show us what a bunch of divs we are, and also discuss amongst each other smugly. Have you not noticed how everything whitey believes about himself is plainly fact, but the rest of us are incapable of knowing ourselves and need them to do it for us.

if you go onto any anti-sikh forum, you will see how they run rings around most of the sikhs who wander onto their forums. on most sikh forums, the mods ban the anti-sikhs as hardly anyone is good at refuting their points. the whole ravidassia episode on sikh sangat or the canadian/muslims/hindu attacks on sikhi on the sikh topix forum are good examples. in order to stop whitey using the whole 'we know better than you', i think we need to mimic what they do if the panth is not able to produce enough brains to counter them. reminds me of when my RE teacher told the christian kids in my class that jesus probably looked palestinian than a blonde haired blue eyed guy. some of them even cried. so where do we start?

Man that is interesting. I wish we could find that again. You have to be careful though, we have some amongst us that think all Sikhs were pious during this glorious raj and would never do such a thing.

yeah, those fundamentalist who believe that before 1984/1947/1849 all sikhs were great gursikhs who never ate meat, did nothing that wasn't related to gurbani and never broke any rehat etc etc. are nuts. the panth will always be full of all sorts, its just that back then sikhs stuck together when it mattered. now all our divisions are exploited by outsiders and over emphasised by some in the panth. those who fought at sobroan, mudki etc were of different opinions and attitudes, but they just got on with it. now, people love fighting one another over meat/historical beliefs etc. as soon as we get over the differences, we can finally get somewhere.

You know we have the "Ha ah ha!", moustache twisting "brothers" amongst us, who, judging by all the Panjabi movies of the 1980s have a balatkaari tendency. You know the type, that get turned on by ripping off a girls chunni off her head and chasing her through the khet...whilst the hapless creature screams "Bechow! Bechow!", only to be met with more seriously twisted and evil sounding laughter......

the panth is full of a lot of characters, but the stereotype you mentioned is one we should not encourage.

I have to admit, now that I think about it, my limited exposure to toffs have been quite okay, now I recall them. They generally abstain from calling you paki, and mostly treat you better than a working class "he turnt around and sed, and then she turnt around and goes" guy. Even if they think you are a lower form of life. I think it may be that. You are sensing that they feel you are inferior and are indignant at the thought (albeit subconsciously). lol

are you Sunny Hundal?

and no, its not that either.

[laalsingh]

the canadian/muslims/hindu attacks on sikhi on the sikh topix forum are good examples.

When did Canadians make into this bunch?

[HSD1]

When did Canadians make into this bunch?

i meant certain white canadians on there who just want to slander sikhs because of the blowing up of air india flight whatever.

[dalsingh101]

in order to stop whitey using the whole 'we know better than you', i think we need to mimic what they do if the panth is not able to produce enough brains to counter them. reminds me of when my RE teacher told the christian kids in my class that jesus probably looked palestinian than a blonde haired blue eyed guy. some of them even cried. so where do we start?

Reminds me of an experence when I was about 13 and my Bahai RE teacher suggested he knew Sikhism better than me. This had a profound effect on me. That is was one of the original reasons I started looking into the faith a bit more and critically too. Not that I never an interest in it before that anyway. I guess you can say that I was fired up by that incident.

Where do we start? We start by saying that we spit on all whitey interpretations of our past and we develop our own interpretation with a Khalsacentric approach. No rocket science. We just have to put the excessively pious in place because they have a tendency to "whitewash" things that come back to haunt us later.

yeah, those fundamentalist who believe that before 1984/1947/1849 all sikhs were great gursikhs who never ate meat, did nothing that wasn't related to gurbani and never broke any rehat etc etc. are nuts. the panth will always be full of all sorts, its just that back then sikhs stuck together when it mattered.

What is the main issue? Have we got it too easy now? Now that we are not hunted like animals we turn on each other. We need another leader who can make all of us feel that one of our own is in power and that they are doing the right thing. Not a Jattcentric vision, which is what is going on now but real wide visioned leadership. My brother and I was talking about this recently, he said our problem is that we don't have leadership that genuinely care about other Sikhs. Such people will only appear if we raise and nurture them. Otherwise we will only have the self serving, nepotistic tossers we have now. I think a small number of Sikhs are thinking on a higher level. The majority however are still into the "out do the next Sikh and make myself look fabulous vibe". This is a long battle that has to eradicate existing Panjabi mindsets/practices.

are you Sunny Hundal?

and no, its not that either.

Err...no. Second thing, you are obviously somewhat reflective and intelligent. If you can't fathom out why you hate toffs, how can any of us? If you don't have a reason, than you are being irrational. I say that they screw us indirectly whereas the working racists (not that all WC are openly racist), are on the frontline and if racist, are easier to identify.

Edited August 16, 2009 by dalsingh101

[HSD1]

Where do we start? We start by saying that we spit on all whitey interpretations of our past and we develop our own interpretation with a Khalsacentric approach. No rocket science. We just have to put the excessively pious in place because they have a tendency to "whitewash" things that come back to haunt us later.

so will this involve using websites or journals or factual books? shame the gurudwaras dont stump up the money to provide for some sikh research dept at unis or attached to the gurudwaras themselves.

What is the main issue? Have we got it too easy now? Now that we are not hunted like animals we turn on each other. We need another leader who can make all of us feel that one of our own is in power and that they are doing the right thing. Not a Jattcentric vision, which is what is going on now but real wide visioned leadership. My brother and I was talking about this recently, he said our problem is that we don't have leadership that genuinely care about other Sikhs. Such people will only appear if we raise and nurture them. Otherwise we will only have the self serving, nepotistic rossers we have now. I think a samll number of SIkhs are thinking on a higher level. The majority however are still into the out do the next Sikh and make myself look fabulous vibe. This is a long battle that has to eradicate existing Panjabi mindsets/practices.

i think the problems we face now are a lot more complicated, and we cant just shout a Jaikara and go charging in with swords and matchlocks to solve them unfortunately. what we need is an uber-leader like sant ji, who is sant-sipahi, but is also knowledgeable about the west, and can come up with tactics that cover every angle. the new leader would also have to be able to allow his/her lieutenants to take care of their area of responsibility without having everything micromanaged from the top. that means creating sikhs who are capable to fill specialist roles responsibly and willing to serve under someone else without thinking 'I SHOULD BE THE BOSSMAN NOT THEM!'. if you look at sikh societies at uni, they last about 3-4 years, as the older lot refuse to let the ones below run things and leave without sorting out what should happen. then there are gurudwara committees which are trying to create a new class of religous people in the panth by making sure their sons will take over. some of their sons run around in groups and get up to all sorts. but once again, how do we raise such sikhs? i think it all revolves around who runs the gurudwaras: they control the future of the panth.

Err...no. Second thing, you are obviously somewhat reflective and intelligent. If you can't fathom out why you hate toffs, how can any of us? If you don't have a reason, than you are being irrational. I say that they screw us indirectly whereas the working racists (not that all WC are openly racist), are on the frontline and if racist, are easier to identify.

having given it some thought, i think one thing that annoys me is the difference between east punjab and england. i remember the last time i went there and some things are just unbelievable. sikhs moping around, not much development, laziness, biharis acting like they own the place, nothing to reflect e.punjab's economic development etc etc. when i came back i had to go to a certain english city, and i saw all these colonial buildings, towers built with the spoils and blood of the punjab, posh people with all those opportunities in their lives, institutions older than sikhi and part of me felt so annoyed that what happened 150 years ago led to this massive difference in our race's fortunes.

like i said before, a sikh is just as clever/talented as any english person. but the english have skewed things so that they have opportunities so even a stupid posh person does well where as most sikhs have to make do on the lower rungs of the world order.

Edited August 16, 2009 by HSD

[dalsingh101]

It s hard not to feel overwhelmed with the current state of things. All I do know is that changes will happen on a ground zero level basis. No institutes (inc. gurdwaras) are interested. My view is that we have to go all the way down to family level. Forget all else right now.

The truth is that those of us, who are not totally self absorbed know exactly what we need. If enough of us can effect a generation, we can only aim to be catalysts for change. Right now though, the community in the diaspora has its belly full. That is what they want. Any community development issues are superfluous. If we are doing okay, these things don't matter.

What has to take place now is deep, profound discussions with the new generation at the "dinner table". All uncles, fathers, older cousins etc. who are conscious can play a part in this. If we don't nail the caste biased, consumerist, cowardly and socially unaware trends that have become part and parcel of our community, then our fate is sealed.

The way I see it, we can only prepare for tommorow as the ones before us only prepared for their today.

Edited August 17, 2009 by dalsingh101