Matheen Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Just happening now at Willenhall - all went well despite all the threats, lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSG Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 I dont know the full ins and outs but from what I see on the Sikh Channel and all that is going on about the Dasam Granth , 1. I believe if all sikhs dont get together this will break up the panth , some will make Dasam Granth as thier Guru , some Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji . 2. Dont get me wrong , I dont have a problem in sangat reciting the Dasam Granth , they can read it until there heart is content , as long as they gain something from it which will merge them with waheguru , then its all good , but I believe 10th master has already told us Sri Guru Granth Sahib , Pothi - parmesar ka thaan , sabh sikham koh hukam heh guru manio granth 3. I dont see the point in just reciting gurbani , especially now since its live on air to millions , why not recite a line , then explain , Amardeep Singh who has a slot on the Sikh Channel is doing a fantastic job on explaining , Jaap Sahib with meaningful references to the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Matheen Ji , why were you getting threats ? I personally believe , we are all running away from looking into ourselves , waheguru is within us , we just need to look inside and make the connection, here we are just confusing things , a new joiner to Sikhism , what does he/she follow, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Dasam Granth ? See , even I am confused ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted December 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 1. I believe if all sikhs dont get together this will break up the panth , some will make Dasam Granth as thier Guru , some Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji . DSG, where have you been, lol. It's all been explained in the past - nobody is going to make Sri Dasam Granth Sahib take the place of GUru Sahib. In fact, Dasam Bani (Sarbloh) states that Guru Ji gave Gurgaddi to Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Dasam Bani has a different purpose to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - the programs you see are a way of raising awareness amongst the Sangat and countering the efforts of people who want to remove all Dasam Bani from our lives - they even want to remove 3 of the 5 Amrit Sanchar Banis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSG Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Sorry Matheen Ji , I've been playing in the snow I dont want to cover the ground if its already been discussed . its just so many views with different responses , its all a bit confusing ( thats to me, may I add) Alot of peoples perception and it was even highlighted on Sikh Channel , that why is Dasam Granth being recited infront of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji , etc... etc... Do you think a program on the Sikh channel to clarify these issues would be a good idea and if so who will be the representatives. Again Sorry for repeating the issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 It was so beautiful to see the two Granths side by side 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 It was so beautiful to see the two Granths side by side A black Day for the Sikh Panth. Guru instructed us to Guru Maneo Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and look what we the b*ff**ns are doing instead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted December 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 A black Day for the Sikh Panth. Guru instructed us to Guru Maneo Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and look what we the b*ff**ns are doing instead. There's always one, lol. If anything, it enforces the fact the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our Guru. If you had issues, you could have attended the event and asked one of the learned Singhs there why they were doing the event. You still have your chance - make your way to Guru Hargobind Sahib Gurudwara, Coventry and ask the Singhs there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 (edited) There's always one, lol. If anything, it enforces the fact the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our Guru. If you had issues, you could have attended the event and asked one of the learned Singhs there why they were doing the event. You still have your chance - make your way to Guru Hargobind Sahib Gurudwara, Coventry and ask the Singhs there. Not ''one but 'many'. Learned??? A black Day for the Sikh Panth. Guru instructed us to Guru Maneo Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and look what we the b*ff**ns are doing instead. Edited December 25, 2009 by A_Sikh_For_Life 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Nobody ever said that SGGS is not our guru. It was need of the hour and i applaud those who have done it. It is like maryada of puratan times coming back. This is the right answer for gurnindaks who are very few. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Maharaja Ranjit Singh listening to the two sacred Granths being recited near Sri Harimandir Sahib. (A Painting by August Theodore Schoefft (1809-1888), made in Amritsar. From Princess Bamba Collection) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Not ''one but 'many'. Learned??? A black Day for the Sikh Panth. Guru instructed us to Guru Maneo Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and look what we the b*ff**ns are doing instead. dare to come and see the consequences. heretic dilgeer was there.He had no courage to go there.Heretics are very few. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Maharaja Ranjit Singh listening to the two sacred Granths being recited near Sri Harimandir Sahib. (A Painting by August Theodore Schoefft (1809-1888), made in Amritsar. From Princess Bamba Collection) Yes "Two Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee". Shame shame shame on the Gurdwara that allowed this extremely stupid activity. And b*ff**ns are we all allowing this. A black Day for the Sikh Panth. Guru instructed us to Guru Maneo Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and look what we the b*ff**ns are doing instead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 A Sikh for life, parkash of sri dasam granth with sri guru granth sahib, bhog of akhand patts of both granths were done long before i or you were wearings diapers, long before mine or yours or anyone ancestors came into existence.. this maryada was carried out in nihang dals for centuries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zulu Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Yes "Two Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee". Shame shame shame on the Gurdwara that allowed this extremely stupid activity. And b*ff**ns are we all allowing this. A black Day for the Sikh Panth. Guru instructed us to Guru Maneo Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and look what we the b*ff**ns are doing instead. why didnt you go and stop it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 A Sikh for life, parkash of sri dasam granth with sri guru granth sahib, bhog of akhand patts of both granths were done long before i or you were wearings diapers, long before mine or yours or anyone ancestors came into existence.. this maryada was carried out in nihang dals for centuries. Veerji, thanks for information. If a moorkah jumps into a well right infront of the moorakh, would you follow suit. Of course not - not an intelligent Gurmukh like yourself. We turn a blind eye to UK Gurdwaras labelled with sects or caste names such as the "ramgharia" gurdwara and we are still turning a blind eye to this manmat. What a disgrace to our Guru jees. Did they waste their time on b*ff**ns like us? What a shame to the young sahibzadeys. Shame Shame Shame. A black day for us all. Its no wonder we are getting trashed by fake baba dera's the likes of dera sacha sauda, ashutosh etc etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted December 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 What exactly do you have an issue with? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Yes "Two Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee". Shame shame shame on the Gurdwara that allowed this extremely stupid activity. And b*ff**ns are we all allowing this. A black Day for the Sikh Panth. Guru instructed us to Guru Maneo Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and look what we the b*ff**ns are doing instead. Not two SGGS jis but SGGS and Dasam Granth sahib ji. Kala afghana cult have no substance to face truth.Only thing they know is tell lies. Sit back and chew the whole article. http://patshahi10.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=161:guru-mata-sir-john-malcolm&catid=34:english&Itemid=63 Maharaja Ranjit Singh listening to the two sacred Granths being recited near Sri Harimandir Sahib. (A Painting by August Theodore Schoefft (1809-1888), made in Amritsar. From Princess Bamba Collection) Note: The following is an excerpt from a book, Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab,written by Sir John Malcolm* in 1812. John Malcolm’s work is one of the rarest firsthand information recorded by a western historian on the lifestyle, belief systems and traditions of the Sikhs in Punjab during the 18th century . Guru-mata When Gurmata or great national council, is called, (as it always is, or ought to be, when any imminent danger threatens the country, or any large expedition is to be undertaken) all the Sikh chiefs assemble at Amritsar. The assembly, which is called the Guru-mata, is convened by the Acalis; and when the chiefs meet upon this solemn occasion, it is concluded that all private animosities cease, and that every main sacrifices his personal feelings at the shrine of the general good; and, actuated by principles of pure patriotism, thinks of nothing but the interests of the religion, and commonwealth, to which he belongs. When the chiefs and principal leaders are seated, the Adi-Granth and Dasama Padshah ka Granth are placed before them. They all bend their heads before these scriptures, and exclaim, Wa! Guruji ka Khalsa! Wa! Guruji ki Fateh! A great quantity of cakes, made of wheat, butter, and sugar, are then placed before the volumes of their sacred writings, and covered with a cloth. These holy cakes, which are in commemoration of the injunction of Nanac, to eat and to give to others to eat, next receive the salutation of the assembly, who then rise, and the Acalis pray aloud, while the musicians play. The Acalis, then the prayers are finished, desire the council to be seated. They sit down, and the cakes being uncovered, are eaten of by all classes of Sikhs: those distinctions of original tribes, which are, on occasions, kept up, being on this occasion laid aside, in token of their general and complete union in one cause. The Acalis then exclaim: "Sirdars! (Chiefs) this is Guru-mata!" on which prayers are again said aloud. The chiefs, after this sit closer, and say to each other: "The sacred Granth is betwixt us, let us swear by our scripture to forget all internal disputes, and to be united." This moment of religious fervor and ardent patriotism, is taken to reconcile all animosities. They then proceed to consider the danger with whcih they are threatened, to settle the best plans for averting it, and to choose the generals who are to lead their armies against the common enemy. The first Guru-mata was assembled by Guru Govinid; and the latest was called in 1805, when the British army pursued Holkar into the Penjab. (pages. 120-123) ________________________ *Sir John Malcolm (May 2, 1769 ‑ 1833) was a Scottish soldier, statesman, and historian. He held various distinguished posts, being Ambassador to Persia, Resident of Gwalior (1803-1804) and Governor of Bombay 1827-1830. He was the author of several valuable works regarded as authorities, viz., Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab (1812), A History of Persia (1815), Memoir of Central India(1823), 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 (edited) Veerji, thanks for information. If a moorkah jumps into a well right infront of the moorakh, would you follow suit. Of course not - not an intelligent Gurmukh like yourself. We turn a blind eye to UK Gurdwaras labelled with sects or caste names such as the "ramgharia" gurdwara and we are still turning a blind eye to this manmat. What a disgrace to our Guru jees. Did they waste their time on b*ff**ns like us? What a shame to the young sahibzadeys. Shame Shame Shame. A black day for us all. Its no wonder we are getting trashed by fake baba dera's the likes of dera sacha sauda, ashutosh etc etc. If you have substance dare to come there. bring your heretic unsikh cult there and see what happens. You do not have the courage to come like a man.You can write nonsense behind a computer screen. Last year we were to have international seminar on dasam Granth.All these handful missionaries could do was to approach gurudwara sahib president sheepishly not to let it take place. When we asked president to call them in a meeting and he did it these rogues did not have the courage to come for a meeting. Seminar did take place.We invited them for the seminar.None of them turned up. They can only do bukwas and then vanish like cowards. Edited December 25, 2009 by singh2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSG Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Wahe Guri Ji Ka Khalsa Whae guru Ji Ke Fateh With wahegurus kirpa we have a new source of media ( Sikh Channel ) Do the sangat think we should get the "learned" sikhs together and get them to explain about Dasam Granth , the Bhog of Dasam Granth , why the controversy ? I personally think , there should be a fact based discussion so that the sangat can be made aware of the findings of scholars , The learned rather than just giving our two pence worth or what we have heard through the grape vine . What do the sangat think ? This should be done in a civilised manner , no name calling, abuse etc... because there are alot of sangat out there who are confused , who have there own views , but with factual information hopefully the whole sangat can be made aware/educated . Because one point Matheen Ji mentioned earlier in this thread which I think is the key i.e. In fact, Dasam Bani (Sarbloh) states that Guru Ji gave Gurgaddi to Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh2 Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) Picking a line and quoting it out of context does not mean anything. Dasam Granth is bani of tenth master. Nobody denies spiritual guruship to SGGS ji. When guru sahib left this world he gave us Jyot i.e. SGGS ji and he gave us jugat. Jugat is through khalsa way of life.Khalsa sprouts from Dasam Granth. That is the reason Dasam Granth had always been a part and parcel of sikh psyche. Sikh history is testimony that it was alwsys in parakash.It was in parkash till 1944 at akal takhat. Recently it has been subjected to verbal abuse by a small section of sikhs led by kala afghna sect. May be we are paying for our past mistakes. we need to remember that parkash of dasam granth under a smaller canopy does not take Gurgaddi away from SGGS ji. The fact is that in theory we have two granths to conduct our worldly life. Sikh scholars are quite clear about role of dasam granth in a sikh's life.That is why they have challenged those who propagate against it.Nobody ahs dared to come forward yet to accept the challenge and i am sure nobody will come in future also. http://sikhsangat.org/2009/12/sikh-book-release-and-panthic-gathering-at-sri-amritsar/ Edited December 26, 2009 by singh2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Picking a line and quoting it out of context does not mean anything. Dasam Granth is bani of tenth master. Nobody denies spiritual guruship to SGGS ji. When guru sahib left this world he gave us Jyot i.e. SGGS ji and he gave us jugat. Jugat is through khalsa way of life.Khalsa sprouts from Dasam Granth. Inder singh you are the worst enemy of the Sikh Panth. Worst then even the ashtosh dera. Khalsa is one who is self realised. Khande de pahul does not automatically make one self realised. BTW before you go off in your usual rant, I am not denying Khande de Pahul. So how does one become self realised ie khalsa? It is through Gurmat Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Lets list 2 shabads to contemplate on. 1. This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Maajh on Pannaa 144 pauVI ] pourree || Pauree: scw qyrw hukmu gurmuiK jwixAw ] sachaa thaeraa hukam guramukh jaaniaa || True is the Hukam of Your Command. To the Gurmukh, it is known. gurmqI Awpu gvwie scu pCwixAw ] guramathee aap gavaae sach pashhaaniaa || Through the Guru's Teachings, selfishness and conceit are eradicated, and the Truth is realized. scu qyrw drbwru sbdu nIswixAw ] sach thaeraa dharabaar sabadh neesaaniaa || True is Your Court. It is proclaimed and revealed through the Word of the Shabad. scw sbdu vIcwir sic smwixAw ] sachaa sabadh veechaar sach samaaniaa || Meditating deeply on the True Word of the Shabad, I have merged into the Truth. mnmuK sdw kUiVAwr Brim BulwixAw ] manamukh sadhaa koorriaar bharam bhulaaniaa || The self-willed manmukhs are always false; they are deluded by doubt. ivstw AMdir vwsu swdu n jwixAw ] visattaa a(n)dhar vaas saadh n jaaniaa || They dwell in manure, and they do not know the taste of the Name. ivxu nwvY duKu pwie Awvx jwixAw ] vin naavai dhukh paae aavan jaaniaa || Without the Name, they suffer the agonies of coming and going. nwnk pwrKu Awip ijin Kotw Krw pCwixAw ]13] naanak paarakh aap jin khottaa kharaa pashhaaniaa ||13|| O Nanak, the Lord Himself is the Appraiser, who distinguishes the counterfeit from the genuine. ||13|| 2. This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 154 gauVI mhlw 1 ] gourree mehalaa 1 || Gauree, First Mehla: ikrqu pieAw nh mytY koie ] kirath paeiaa neh maettai koe || Past actions cannot be erased. ikAw jwxw ikAw AwgY hoie ] kiaa jaanaa kiaa aagai hoe || What do we know of what will happen hereafter? jo iqsu Bwxw soeI hUAw ] jo this bhaanaa soee hooaa || Whatever pleases Him shall come to pass. Avru n krxY vwlw dUAw ]1] avar n karanai vaalaa dhooaa ||1|| There is no other Doer except Him. ||1|| nw jwxw krm kyvf qyrI dwiq ] naa jaanaa karam kaevadd thaeree dhaath || I do not know about karma, or how great Your gifts are. krmu Drmu qyry nwm kI jwiq ]1] rhwau ] karam dhharam thaerae naam kee jaath ||1|| rehaao || The karma of actions, the Dharma of righteousness, social class and status, are contained within Your Name. ||1||Pause|| qU eyvfu dwqw dyvxhwru ] thoo eaevadd dhaathaa dhaevanehaar || You are So Great, O Giver, O Great Giver! qoit nwhI quDu Bgiq BMfwr ] thott naahee thudhh bhagath bha(n)ddaar || The treasure of Your devotional worship is never exhausted. kIAw grbu n AwvY rwis ] keeaa garab n aavai raas || One who takes pride in himself shall never be right. jIau ipMfu sBu qyrY pwis ]2] jeeo pi(n)dd sabh thaerai paas ||2|| The soul and body are all at Your disposal. ||2|| qU mwir jIvwlih bKis imlwie ] thoo maar jeevaalehi bakhas milaae || You kill and rejuvenate. You forgive and merge us into Yourself. ijau BwvI iqau nwmu jpwie ] jio bhaavee thio naam japaae || As it pleases You, You inspire us to chant Your Name. qUM dwnw bInw swcw isir myrY ] thoo(n) dhaanaa beenaa saachaa sir maerai || You are All-knowing, All-seeing and True, O my Supreme Lord. gurmiq dyie BrosY qyrY ]3] guramath dhaee bharosai thaerai ||3|| Please, bless me with the Guru's Teachings; my faith is in You alone. ||3|| qn mih mYlu nwhI mnu rwqw ] than mehi mail naahee man raathaa || One whose mind is attuned to the Lord, has no pollution in his body. gur bcnI scu sbid pCwqw ] gur bachanee sach sabadh pashhaathaa || Through the Guru's Word, the True Shabad is realized. qyrw qwxu nwm kI vifAweI ] thaeraa thaan naam kee vaddiaaee || All Power is Yours, through the greatness of Your Name. nwnk rhxw Bgiq srxweI ]4]10] naanak rehanaa bhagath saranaaee ||4||10|| Nanak abides in the Sanctuary of Your devotees. ||4||10|| 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted December 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 "A_Sikh_FOr_Life" ji, have you undertaken Khande Da Pahul and accepted Guru Granth Sahib Ji as your guru? (Singh2, Inder etc, please don't reply to him until he answers this question) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Why not go the whole hog and have an Akhand Path of Sarbloh Granth as well. Remember that was the 'secret' text that Nihangs wouldn't show to the Europeans so chances are that had Malcolm not been present the Akalis would have had Parkash of three Granths rather than two. So when is the Akhand Path of Sarbloh Granth happening? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Thats a very good question, tonyhp32. I used to have one of those classic picture from nihang dal of all three granths parkashed, nihangs were reciting hymns from them. However, i cannot confirm if they were indeed doing akhand patt from them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sikh_For_Life Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 "A_Sikh_FOr_Life" ji, have you undertaken Khande Da Pahul and accepted Guru Granth Sahib Ji as your guru? (Singh2, Inder etc, please don't reply to him until he answers this question) Please try reading Gurbani or even the 2 shabad posted earlier and that ask yourself if I have accepted Sri guru granth Sahib jee as Guru. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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