anand_mangal Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) according to puratan sampradaie there is one salok of dasma paatshah in sri guru granth sahib jee 'bal hooa bandhan chutte' this salok was a reply to guru tegh bahadur je sent by guru gobind singh jee i have collected images from various saroops of guru granth sahib jee, thoght i should share a few on here Edited December 29, 2009 by anand_mangal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Cheers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 very nice, i am busy writing about this salok. have found quotes in teh sooraj prakash, panth parkash, gurmukh parkash and gurbilas patshahi 10 that back up this as being guru gobind singh ji's salok. Thanks BTW are these photos taken by yourself or belong to others? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Here is another image from a Bir held at the Akal Takhat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 The saloks by Bhai Mani Singh ji and baba Deep Singh ji in their hath likhat birs are attached. also the mahalla 10 in piara Singh Padam's book is attached. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anand_mangal Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 i have not taken these pictures myself. so far out of the hath likhat saroop i have seen only a few contain mahala 10 written in them i'm not sure if it was compulsary to write mahala 10 , but i think everyone knew it was dasam patshah's dohara. the reason i say this is because i have had darshan of a saroop that has the mohar of guru gobind singh jee and that did not contain mahala dasva in it. But then again Baba deep singh jee and other mahaan gursikhs wrote m.10 in their hath likhat swaroops. please correct me if i am wrong Kam1825 Can't wait to read your research about this dohara 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) Thanks for posting up these images, however it raises a question, if this Dohra is accepted as authored by Guru Gobind Singh and it has Mahala 10 in the hand written birs, why is it missed out in the current standardised version of Aad Guru Granth Sahib. I had a look over the Dohra and compared it to the standardised version and there is obvious discrepancies. Text from Srigranth.org ਬਲੁ ਹੋਆ ਬੰਧਨ ਛੁਟੇ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੁਮਰੈ ਹਾਥ ਮੈ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਹੋਤ ਸਹਾਇ I compared the above text with Guru Granth Darpan and Faridkot Wala Teeka and the text is the same (maybe because the same text file has been reused?) however when you compare it with the images posted you can see the differences. [i stupidly mixed up the order of the above images posted, however here are the various texts. I have split the words up to allow for easier comparison] ਬਲ ਹੂਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਛੁਟੇ ਸਭ ਕਛੁ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ਸਭੁ ਕਛੁ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਹਾਥ ਮੈ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ਸਹਾਇ ਬਲ ਹੂਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਛੁਟੇ ਸਭ ਕਛੁ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਹਾਥ ਮੈ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ਸਹਾਇ ਬਲ ਹੂਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਛੁਟੇ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਹਾਥ ਮੈ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ਸਹਾਇ ਬਲੁ ਹੂਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਛੁਟੇ ਸਭ ਕਛੁ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੁਮਰੈ ਹਾਥ ਮੈ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ਸਹਾਇ Akaal Takht image posted by Kam ਬਲੁ ਹੂਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਛੁਟੇ ਸਭ ਕਛੁ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੁਮਰੈ ਹਾਥ ਮੇ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਹੋਇ ਸਹਾਇ The most obvious difference it the addition of "Nanak" in the second line, "ਹੋਤ ਸਹਾਇ" instead of " ਹੋਇ ਸਹਾਇ" in the second line, "ਬਲੁ ਹੋਆ" instead of "ਬਲ ਹੂਓ" in the opening. There is also a few variations of spelling between the old birs however the differences are not that much as the current standardised AGGS. Is there a hand written bir which includes "Nanak", or has this been added? Has anyone got an image of the dohra from a current standardised AGGS to compare? Edited December 29, 2009 by Maha Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) Anyone got a photo from the Damdami Bir or know how the Dohra is in there? Anand_mangal - is that the one you saw with Guru Sahib's signature? I'm guessing that is the same as what we have today - would Guru Sahib have dictated "Mahala 10"? Look forward to your research, Kam. Edited December 29, 2009 by Matheen 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) On http://www.ragmalagurbanihai.info/gallery3.htm if you click the image "3-16" it has the dohra (not refferenced as Mahala 10) with ਨਾਨਕ included, ਬਲੁ ਹੋਆ and ਹੋਤ ਸਹਾਇ as with the standardised Aad Guru Granth, however there are still some spelling variations. What is this bir? Edited December 29, 2009 by Maha Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laadli Fauj Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Anyone got a photo from the Damdami Bir or know how the Dohra is in there? Anand_mangal - is that the one you saw with Guru Sahib's signature? I'm guessing that is the same as what we have today - would Guru Sahib have dictated "Mahala 10"? Look forward to your research, Kam. I was under the impression that Maharaj's Damdami Bir was "lost"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I was under the impression that Maharaj's Damdami Bir was "lost"? That's right, I wrote without thinking, but was under the impression that all Guru Sahib birs were based on the Damdami bir - the continuous Santhiya / Katha of Gurbani that has been going on since the first one by Guru Ji at Damdama Sahib would have ensured that spellings remain the same. There is, however, a 17 Century Bir at the British Library - would be interesting to see how the Dohra appears in there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laadli Fauj Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 yeah i agree that the seena baseena tradition of santhiya, and other beerhs based off it should ensure that everything remained the same. However, aren't there slight differences even between puratan saroops? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 yeah i agree that the seena baseena tradition of santhiya, and other beerhs based off it should ensure that everything remained the same. However, aren't there slight differences even between puratan saroops? Based upon the numerous differences in spelling and words between the current standardised Aad Guru Granth Sahib and the 5 hand written granths in a single Dohra, I have no doubt that there will be similar discrepencies throughout the Granth. From my knowledge, the standardisation of the Guru Granth Sahib was done by the SGPC using a single bir, Baba Gyan Singh had carried out years of research regarding the Guru Granth Sahib by travelling throughout India and studying hath likhat granths, tracing out the bani onto tracing paper and then arduosly studying and picking out the differences in spelling, wording and bania. According to his research there are thousands of differences in the current standardised version of AGGS. He offered the SGPC access to these granths so they could compare and study each of the granths with the help of his research and compile a granth which held all the correct spellings and wordings. The SGPC didnt want to know and they just went ahead by copying a single granth. Mistakes are easily made by the writers of the granth, having been practising gurmukhi caligraphy for a while Ive noticed how easy it is to write mistakes. Each writer would make mistakes and then the person copying it would add more mistakes, a written chinese whisper you could say. When the printers came into running, the operators of the printers could easily put the incorrect blocks on the press, leading to more mistakes. Some study definitly requires the need to be done, however with many birs in bad state, in private collections or cremated, its gonna be a harder task. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) Image 4 from the original poster also includes the Mahala 1 - Jit Dar Lakh Mahammeda Lakh Brahmeh Bishan Mahesh salok Edited December 30, 2009 by Maha Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 According to the two Taksal sampardas the Mahalla 10 was correct and should not have been changed. Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji, Sant Kartar Singh Ji and Sant Jarnail Singh ji state in their katha. All can be found on Gurmatveechar.com. the Amir Bhandar steek also states the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anand_mangal Posted December 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Mistakes are easily made by the writers of the granth, having been practising gurmukhi caligraphy for a while Ive noticed how easy it is to write mistakes. Each writer would make mistakes and then the person copying it would add more mistakes, a written chinese whisper you could say. When the printers came into running, the operators of the printers could easily put the incorrect blocks on the press, leading to more mistakes. Some study definitly requires the need to be done, however with many birs in bad state, in private collections or cremated, its gonna be a harder task. i agree, i don't think you will find any saroop with small differences here and there. i've also been attempting at gurmukhi caligraphy and its true how easily mistakes can be made even when your in full concentration i saw the saroop way be4 this video was taken..but i'm sure this was the same saroop with the mohar in it at about 2.15 minutes u can see the dohra , and it is without 'dasvaa' also from freedkot teeka : 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laadli Fauj Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Kam1825, is the mahalla 10 to be uchaar'ed then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybersingh Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 On http://www.ragmalagurbanihai.info/gallery3.htm if you click the image "3-16" it has the dohra (not refferenced as Mahala 10) with ਨਾਨਕ included, ਬਲੁ ਹੋਆ and ਹੋਤ ਸਹਾਇ as with the standardised Aad Guru Granth, however there are still some spelling variations. What is this bir? I went to the website and also clicked on image 3-1 and it refers to Dera Baba Ajaipal Singh Nabha....could someone please shed some light on this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 what does this mean for us as sikhs, that the present version of Guru Granth Sahib is not the same as the original from the times of the Gurus?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Kam1825, is the mahalla 10 to be uchaar'ed then? if it is in the granth or the paath being read then you should read it however the modern day printed saroops do not contain the words mahalla 10 so we do not recite it. We cannot recite what is not there however if you are at a akhand paath where it states in the granth mahalla dasva then you are to utter it. I hav only heard it once in my life. All mahapurkh accept that this is the salok of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the taksali mahapursh state it should have remained in the form that Maharaj uttered the bani. I think both Bhai Mani Singh and Baba Deep Singh ji would not put Mahalla 10 into their granths if Guru gobind Singh ji did not do so themselves when at Damdama Sahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laadli Fauj Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 satt aa, thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuptSingh1699 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Interesting topic. What about doing Seva of putting All Puratan Birs in the world in Cyber format. I mean scanning or taking pics and putting in PDF formats. And look into their history aswell, their authenticity etc. By this work will be easier. I don't think SGPC will bother doing anything, all they are concerned with is Maya. The Salok is in Bhai Mani Singh's bir under Patshahi 10 and in Baba Deep Singh's as Mahalla 10. There are many such birs, howhever many perished during Operation Blue Star. The earliest Teeka of SGGS by Gyani Badan Singh also mentions this. Kam, awaiting to read your articles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds123 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 So which version of the salok is correct? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daas Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 On 1/19/2010 at 4:59 PM, ds123 said: So which version of the salok is correct? This is put up to the saroop that one has. However, just remember that dashmesh pita is included in the guru granth sahib. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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