Reincarnation?

[Mr Sardar]

[REMOVED]

Edited December 10, 2015 by sarbatdapala

[amardeep]

Go to your local library and borrow the Bhagavad Gita. Krishna explains the concept in an easy way

[unbreakable]

Go to your local library and borrow the Bhagavad Gita. Krishna explains the concept in an easy way

So, you are saying that Gurbani can't explain the concept or explains it in a difficult way?

[SURYADEV]

So, you are saying that Gurbani can't explain the concept or explains it in a difficult way?

MAybe in Gurbani there is an assumption that the individual studying it knows of these 'basic' facts. Gurbani is about the higher level stuff than the mundane.

There was a thread here a while ago about the best translation of the Bhagvad Gita to read.

Having said that I must do it myself.

[unbreakable]

MAybe in Gurbani there is an assumption that the individual studying it knows of these 'basic' facts. Gurbani is about the higher level stuff than the mundane.

There was a thread here a while ago about the best translation of the Bhagvad Gita to read.

Having said that I must do it myself.

I have an answer, but I will wait for Amardeep veer ji to reply first

[laalsingh]

It isn't that important.

[amardeep]

I agree with jattboot

[unbreakable]

I don't fully agree with Jattboot. Saying Gurbani assumes, I think could be wrong?

(the question was meant for you (amardeep), lol)

I do agree that reincarnation is not a topic central to Sikhi, its more about establishing that link with God, but knowledge of it does make us aware of the cyclical nature of the world and how to break this cycle.

Going back to the OP question, which I have split up as follows

I would appreciate it if members can correct me if I am wrong.

what is Reincarnation in Sikhi

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Reincarnation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation

Reincarnation means being born again simply, as we can read from links above.

what do we retain from our previous lifes

From what I have read and understand, you retain your good and bad karma, which is made up of actions, deeds, thoughts, etc, etc. The Good you do and the Bad you do, directly and indirectly.

Like plus and minus points, you carry these over each time you are re-born. Abit like a credit card debt, it keeps on rolling over and building up, you can do good by paying it off, but how?

Some even say that by doing meditation, you can even retain knowledge of your past lives.

what knowledge is available to us and is there any scientific proof for it

This is where research comes into play, which you have to do yourself, you won't find the answer to this on a internet forum.

There are many documentaries done on reincarnation, where a child suddenly remembers their past life and how they were killed, etc. Experts claim that using deep hypnosis methods you can sometimes access details of your past lives.

I remember listening to a katha my Giani Sant Sing Maskeen Ji, where he was telling the sangat about a Muslim guy who had recovered memories of his past 9 births, he knew where he lived, his Mothers names, etc, etc. This was done through meditation or bhagti.

There are scientific reports which report on such phenomenons, going back 150 years, and some accounts, which are "stories", well there are plenty of them.

They even have reports which study the mind while it goes through different stages till when it reaches Samadhi....

is there anything we can do to prove it to ourselves?

Yes, you have to do Naam Simran. But just Naam Simran isn't enough, you need to prepare yourself, your mind, yourself for that journey, and don't do it just to prove it to yourself, do it to gain FREEDOM from this life. i.e. Mukhti.

Edited September 16, 2010 by unbreakable

[Mr Sardar]

How about the quote in this video taken from dr zakir naik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL0YTQSo_pA

he says it does not exist, i have a copy of the gita in english if you could refer me to chapters that talk about it that would be nice.

Even though from wikipedia it says sufis and ismalis believe in reincarnation, in a movie about sufism called baba aziz the character of baba aziz said the child had a very old soul, so it points to the belief of reincarnation, the movie was based on the writings of rumi.

http://www.adishakti.org/_/reincarnation_in_islam.htm

Hazrat Jalal-ud-Deen Rumi, describing the process of evolution through reincarnation - from mineral and plant to animal and man and then to angelhood and beyond. Take the verses from the world famous Masnawi by Hazrat:

I died as mineral and became a plant,

I died as plant and rose to animal,

I died as animal and I was man.

Why should I fear?

When was I less by dying?

Yet once more I shall die as man,

To soar with angels blest;

But even from angelhood I must pass on ...

"And you were dead, and He brought you back to life. And He shall cause you to die, and shall bring you back to life, and in the end shall gather you unto Himself." (2:28). Koran - El Baqarah (The Cow)

Hallaj

Like the herbage

I have sprung up many a time

On the banks of flowing rivers.

For a hundred thousand years

I have lived and worked

In every sort of body.

Allah takes up the selves at the time of their death and the ones which have not died, in their sleeping. Then He holds back the ones against which He has decreed death, and sends (forth) the others till a stated term. Surely in that are indeed signs for a people who meditate. (39:42). Koran

Edited September 16, 2010 by sarbatdapala

[unbreakable]

Dr.Zakir Naik will only promote Islam and only Islam. Asking him or seeking an answer from his talks will only confirm what Islam is saying.

That also goes for the website which you quoted, which is pushing forward material to promote Hinduism.

Just browse down on that website and you will see from the links their obesssion, where they have trolled through Gurbani just to justify themselves.

i.e. http://www.aykaa-mayee.org/

www.adishakti.org/

www.al-qiyamah.org/

www.adi-shakti.org/ — Divine Feminine (Hinduism)

www.holyspirit-shekinah.org/ — Divine Feminine (Christianity)

www.ruach-elohim.org/ — Divine Feminine (Judaism)

www.ruh-allah.org/ — Divine Feminine (Islam)

www.tao-mother.org/ — Divine Feminine (Taoism)

www.prajnaaparamita.org/ — Divine Feminine (Buddhism)

www.aykaa-mayee.org/ — Divine Feminine (Sikhism)

www.great-spirit-mother.org/ — Divine Feminine (Native Traditions)

So, with that in mind, I don't see them as credible sources of information, read them, but don't hold them as a rule of thumb.

[amardeep]

Reincarnation was already a well established fact at the time of the Gurus so Guru Granth Sahib does'nt spend time describing how it works in details. That knowledge can be attained in descriptive form in the Gita where Krishna explains the concept to Arjuna

Sarpatdabala: see chapter two on the soul..

[unbreakable]

Reincarnation was already a well established fact at the time of the Gurus so Guru Granth Sahib does'nt spend time describing how it works in details. That knowledge can be attained in descriptive form in the Gita where Krishna explains the concept to Arjuna

Sarpatdabala: see chapter two on the soul..

[Mr Sardar]

According to gita chapter 2 - summary the soul is one -one thousandth of the length of a hair and located in the heart- so it is atomic size and its influences the whole body my guess being it means subconcious when referring to heart. However it is referring in the (katha) purport that scientists can not pinpoint where the energy that keeps the heart going from comes from. It also says the transference of the atomic soul occurs because of the grace of the super soul, like a friend would do for another friend. The soul can never be destroyed hence utter death is never possible as krishna tells arjun. The soul is also covered by illusionary energy of maya which keeps it away from the supreme lord. Also says that you get liberated but do not become one with supreme lord so you can remain a spiritual spark in a spiritual body instead of physical. The ideas present the noition we are atomic and small and god is infinite and we will remain just as in the form of a separate entity- just like this sufi video

Also what's interesting is it says

" 'The absolute truth are expressed as Brahman, Parmatma and Bhagavan.' These three divine aspects can be explained by the example of the sun, which also has three different aspects, namely the sunshine, the suns surface and the sun planet itself.'

Gita 2.2 " As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly , the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones"

What seems to be stressed in ch2 is the soul can not die; however I am still not satisfied with the idea of reincarnation shown in the quote is there more in other chapters. Thank you amardeep for chapter I really liked reading about the soul and its definition something I have been looking for, however the idea presented in the katha of the gita is the soul takes new bodies material or spirtual goes to different planes according to its actions however the nature of God is confusing as it presents the noition as above brahman, parmata and bhagavan as well as God head; like two birds one eating other watching and the other bird helps it go to its next body; we are just a small atomic thing a spark and will remain that the afterlife is also about going to spiritual planets - but in sikhi we hear of uniting with god but in the gita the uniting will have a sense of separation still.

Edited September 17, 2010 by sarbatdapala

[amardeep]

Read the entire Gita, its a beautiful book and there is more on reincarnation spread throughout the chapters..

[unbreakable]

but in sikhi we hear of uniting with god but in the gita the uniting will have a sense of separation still.

Correct me if I am wrong Amardeep, from what Sarbatdapala said, the Gita says that there is the Supreme God Soul, which is God and then there is us, the "normal" soul, but due to this layer of Maya, we never merge?

Lets say for arguments sake that there is an individual, who has lead a perfect life, has broken the cycle of birth and death, dies, their soul will not merge with the God Soul, but just be with it.

So you have the creator and its creation, as two separate entities, they never merge, like we have been hearding in Sikh Kathas?

I think Islam also says that the creation never merges with the creator, they are two separate entities.

I have read that the soul is located in the middle of your brain, if you take a line from the front of your forehead and the top of your head, where they meet, thats where it is..

Maybe (Amardeep) or anybody else here can give us Gurbani's perspective on this subject?

Thank you.

Edited September 17, 2010 by unbreakable

[amardeep]

As said, read the entire Gita

[Mr Sardar]

"The soul is atomic in size and can be perceived by perfect intelligence. The atomic soul is floating in the five kins of air - prana, apana, vyana, samana and udana, is situated within the heart, and spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities. When the soul is purified from contamination of five kinds of material air , its spiritual influence is exhibited." - summarised saying hatha yoga can help control the 5 airs.

I think the idea of mukhti- mokhsha and fanna present are different to nirvana where in buddhism we understand who we are is dead, if our soul is like an electron going towards the nucleus of the atom to orbit we are almost one- its such that saying God and Guru Nanak are one, but Guru Nanak can still come to the world, so the masters of the past all live, even do the devas and devtas- but usually we understand devi devtas to be under maya but mukhti is being above maya. I still think either way it will not matter much if we believe we the soul fully merges or stays separate- hence we become no more - alike to a glass of water going back to the sea is it there anymore- this sea is god and is intelligent to know which of the water are we, so its hard to fully understand god our intelligence can not go to such levels but to develop some understanding.

I am also interested in Hinduism we find flight and war technology that is advanced like they seem to have rocket launchers and helicopters there is alot of these chariots which could ride the sky, some even believe they had nuclear bombs, the speed of light is written in the vedas so such knowledge to build that may have existed but where are the scraps of these ancient pieces of technology. This is more then 5000 years ago in mahabharat krishna shots arrows which multiply and even get set on fire like amo in firearms we have now. I can see that spirtually society may have fallen to resurrect but science must have left some marks of labs, manuscripts or even a hidden brother hood who kept the knowledge secret- where did such technology come from? Aliens?

Edited September 17, 2010 by sarbatdapala

[unbreakable]

As said, read the entire Gita

I am asking you for your view, as per your own research and experience.

isn't this the whole idea of a forum, where people come to discuss, debate, learn, etc so far you haven't really done that, apart from re-directing people to the Gita.

oh well, its upto you. Thank you for your replies..

[amardeep]

The Gita does talk about oneness with God

[Mr Sardar]

If gita truly teaches oneness with God, why are most hindus doing murti pooja instead of jaap, bhajans/kirtan and exploring the gita the fullest? Also;

What memories do we retain in our next lifes and why can we not tap into them in this life what stops us from knowing of reincarnation in ourselves? What makes us forget our past life?

I remember in the sufi movie baba aziz they said an angel comes to a baby before its born; and the baby knows all the secrets of the universe but the angel quiets the lips of the foetus so it forgets everything.

Edited September 19, 2010 by sarbatdapala

[amardeep]

The answer to your question is given in the 8th chapter where Krishna talks about the difference between nirgun pooja and sargun pooja.

Please read the gita first, and then ask questions.

[SURYADEV]

amardeep

what translation have you got?

[amardeep]

I have the one by the Hare Krishna foundation ISCO