dalsingh101 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Personally I don't think you have evaluated any other views. You said that Jat boys were going around raping lower caste girls. I showed you official data that shows that is not the case. Instead of taking that on board you came up with some anecdotes about hearing so and so from Jats you work with. Unless you actually go to a Punjabi village and investigate the facts yourself you will only ever have a blinkered view about Jats. Well, I'm certainly not listening to anything you say. You're the apologist dark sith lord himself as far as I'm concerned. Probably a closet BNP lover too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Again brother, I urge you to save some money and live in Punjab for 6 months, especially in the rural Punjab and experience it first hand to get a better understanding of the culture and people there, and you yourself will realize that truth is quite different from what some freshee had taught you about Punjab and it's people. Do you honestly think pind people will act naturally around a guy from Britain. Because it certainly hasn't been the case when I have made brief visits before. Plus the way you seem to dismiss any information contrary to your own perceptions (even if it is anecdotal) seems strange. Are you telling me many villages do not have issues with caste esp. jats versus chuhra/chamaars? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Do you honestly think pind people will act naturally around a guy from Britain. Because it certainly hasn't been the case when I have made brief visits before. Plus the way you seem to dismiss any information contrary to your own perceptions (even if it is anecdotal) seems strange. Are you telling me many villages do not have issues with caste esp. jats versus chuhra/chamaars? The reason I dismiss your statements is because they are far from the reality of the Punjab I have grown up in not because they are contrary to my views. Personally I actually like reading your posts and mostly agree with them. I'm just surprised how a person like you can actually believe in the stuff you have written recently about this topic. Yes, caste problems do exist in Punjab. The problem I have is when you write something so wrong as claiming that rape, corruption, greed, exploitation is a characteristic trait of the entire Jat people. That is pure nonsense and a malicious lie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) Did you ever consider though. How like a white man can never truly know what it feels like to be a nonwhite persistently on the receiving end of overt and/or covert racism (like say in Southern states of America for instance), you yourself, by virtue of your position, may be incapable of truly understanding what goes on along this caste fissure? I'm not saying that every last jatt manifests the characteristics you outlined, what I am saying is that there are ideologically based corruptions in jatt society that infect the wider Sikh community due to numerical influence. That caste crap at village level is an example. Another one I witnessed growing up is the prevalence of drinking, which when I was a youth was considered specifically a jatt trait (one they were proud of mind you). Other jaats would make comments to the effects of 'look typical jatts getting drunk and rowdy'. An unbelievably disproportionate amount of Off Licenses were owned by jatts (probably still are) in London too. In anycase, fast forward a few decades and somehow those ostentatious booze fuelled wedding that were once the cultural marker of jatts are now bloody common to all Panjabis, regardless of jaat?!! Now I'm not saying that you personally indulge in any of this type of stuff. I'm sure you are a good guy but in the same way wasp ideology infects enough British people to make it potent force, jatt ideology is taken on board by enough jatts to effect that community and it's relationship with not only other nonjat Sikhs but other Indians too, in a negative way. Edited January 15, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Did you ever consider though. How like a white man can never truly know what it feels like to be a nonwhite persistently on the receiving end of overt and/or covert racism (like say in Southern states of America for instance), you yourself, by virtue of your position, may be incapable of truly understanding what goes on along this caste fissure? I'm not saying that every last jatt manifests the characteristics you outlined, what I am saying is that there are ideologically based corruptions in jatt society that infect the wider Sikh community due to numberical influence. That caste crap at village level is an example. Another one I witnessed growing up is the prevalence of drinking, which when I was a youth was considered specifically a jatt trait (one they were proud of mind you). Other jaats would make comments to teh effects of 'look typical alcoholic jatts'. An unbelievably disproportionate amount of Off Licenses were owned by jatts (probably still are) in London too. In anycase, fast forward a few decades and somehow those ostentatious booze fuelled wedding that were once the cultural marker of jatts are now bloody common to all Panjabis, regardless of jaat?!! Now I'm not saying that you personally indulge in any of this type of stuff. I'm sure you are a good guy but in the same way wasp ideology infects enough British people to make it potent force, jatt ideology is taken on board by enough jatts to effect that community and it's relationship with not only other nonjat Sikhs but other Indians too, to have a very negative effect. The problem with your argument is that you see everything through the perspective of a westerner. You equate every situation no matter how different to white people and their treatment to non-whites. Yes Punjab has a caste problem, Jats discriminate and I've seen other castes (Tarkhans, Brahmins, Chamars) do it as well to others. Are you trying to deny that Tarkhans of Punjab don't think they are better than others? In Punjab it is no secret how Chamars (despite their crying about caste discrimination) do the same thing to the Churas of Punjab. The Churas are the only ones I can safely say who don't discriminate against others, since they are on the receiving end by all the others, the rest are all (YES! All!) guilty of caste based discrimination. Yet you don't see that since you have never been to a Punjabi village, what you have basically found is a scapegoat in the form of the Jats to take the shared blame of all the castes of Punjab. You so wrongly compare Jats to white people, what about the Tarkhans, Chamars and others who discriminate against the Churas of Punjab? is discrimination and rape a trait of Tarkhans and Chamars as well? For someone who likes to expose Goras so much, you have much in common with them in terms of generalizing an entire people and that too based on ignorance and second hand information. I got only one advise for you brother, please stop basing your info on music videos and second hand information and actually go to Punjab and see the truth for yourself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Do you honestly think pind people will act naturally around a guy from Britain. Because it certainly hasn't been the case when I have made brief visits before. Plus the way you seem to dismiss any information contrary to your own perceptions (even if it is anecdotal) seems strange. Are you telling me many villages do not have issues with caste esp. jats versus chuhra/chamaars? So what makes to think that the freshies you worked with were being natural with you? Have you considered that they could very well be bigging themselves up because they were ashamed to be working on a crappy building site, work which is generally done by tarkhans and lower castes? I think you need to consider that between me and Mithar we have more experience of what goes on in Punjabi villages than you do. Have you actually spoken to any Chamars from India. I am sure some of the freshies come from these families so I would give their experiences more weight. You haven't commented on the fact that 12% of the SGPC is reserved for 28% of the Sikh population. In addition that 28% have a right to contest the other 88% of the seats. So what makes you think that the SGPC is Jat dominated? Is it the Indian media which always likes to put every issue as being between Jat and non-Jat. Very few disputes in Punjabi villages run along these lines. It is more of one faction of Jats supported by lower castes against another Jat faction with lower caste support. If what you write about what is happening in Punjab is true then why doesn't the Punjab also have private caste armies like Bihar and UP or even a Naxalite rebellion like Chattisgarh? You seem to have a very poor view of lower castes if you think that they would take the crap that you accuse Jats of dishing out on them lying down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) You seem to have a very poor view of lower castes if you think that they would take the crap that you accuse Jats of dishing out on them lying down. More and more, they are not. Anyway, no need to carry this on in my opinion. I've heard enough farmyard bullshit to last me a lifetime now. Try keeping it to yourselves instead of wrapping it around Sikhi. Personally, I'm not falling for any of the farmer sob stories again myself. Edited January 16, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 You should also stop masking your hatred of Jats using the cover of Sikhi. You have major issues which will never be resolved here. You are a bitter man full of hatred and no one can help you here. I urge you seek some counselling outside of the forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Seek help yourself, it's your own people with the mountain of problems they've brought upon themselves. Change your ways or carry on sinking. Simples. Edited January 17, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 I have to add. If you are my generation. You should feel ashamed of yourself for still peddling your jatt shite after seeing what a complete failure it has been after all these years. Face it. Your people tried leading, it flopped (spectacularly) and has caused a world of problems. Now just shut up and stand to the side while people try something new (for a change). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Where have I peddled anything? I have responded to your bukwas about Jats raping lower caste girls with FACTS. Now your 'I heard it down the building site during my lunch break from a freshie so it must be true!' Let's leave it to the other forum members to decide whether I am peddling Jattism or you have a mental illness. Edited January 17, 2011 by tonyhp32 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Where have I peddled anything? I have responded to your bukwas about Jats raping lower caste girls with FACTS. Now your 'I heard it down the building site during my lunch break from a freshie so it must be true!' Let's leave it to the other forum members to decide whether I am peddling Jattism or you have a mental illness. Look whose talking! The man who starts frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog at the mere mention of sullay..... Plus your statistical bullshit is probably even less accurate than the frank words of your brothers on a building site anyway. To paraphrase: "There are lies, damn lies and Tony's bullshit." Ee ya ee ya oye! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Plus your statistical bullshit is probably even less accurate than the frank words of your brothers on a building site anyway. To paraphrase: "There are lies, damn lies and Tony's bullshit." You are incredibly naive. Have you heard of gup shup? I had some freshies working on my house and one of them told me that he had 15 acres near Moga. Now if I had been you, I would have thought 'wow, these freshies must all own a lot of land back in India' But thankfully I am not as naive as you and I actually know what the situation is like in Punjab. I know that if he had 15 acres near Moga he would be worth hundreds of thousands of Pounds. I know that he would not have to do a days work as he would be getting something like 30-35,000 rupees per year per acre on mamla (look up what mamla is). That's 4.5 to 5.25 lakh per year. That's equivalent to a very good wage in India somewhere akin to what a software engineer would earn. So why would he be doing a labouring job in the UK? Freshies have a tendency to gup shup, the more a Boiee (the word freshies use for people here for a long time or born here)listens to their gup shup the more gup shup they come up with. Other gup shup I've heard is that a freshie has a lot of baak feet (influence) with some DGP or MLA and if I have any land problems in Punjab he could sort them out for me! The best way to get them to stop their gup shup is to call their bluff. Say you have a problem in Punjab and ask him to give you the direct telephone number of the MLA and ask the freshie for his name and village and say you will ring the MLA and say his number was passed to you by the freshie. Watch him squirm. Actually knowing the ground reality of a situation stops one being bullsh*tted to. Unfortunately as you have never been to a Pind in Punjab you don't have a clue when freshies start to gup shup with you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Tony Jee is correct. Many people from India do have a tendency to do gup shup to western kids. They will never act real amongst western kids. Almost everyone(Jats, Tarkhans, Khatris all!) likes to over inflate their influence, jaidaat, pay in job from back home. But I have never come across anyone who has ever said he is a rapist or takes advantage of low caste girls as DalSingh claims. People do all sorts of gap shap, but it doesn't make it true, especially when presented with factual data. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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