The Gurus Daily Bhagti / Nitnem

[SikhKhoj]

I was reading a post on a blog by a Muslim girl and it was about Prophet Muhammads daily life, e.g. when he woke up, what prayers he offered, etc.

While reading I realised that I have never heard anything as of such within Sikhi. Yes we know upto Guru Gobind Singh Ji, we had Japuji / Anand in mornings, Sodar Rehraas in evenings and Sohila while sleeping, so the Gurus also did it. And lateron after Pahul, the Banis were finalised as they are today (5 Banian). But I'm sure the Gurus did other meditation / Banis aswel, so is there any account or any oral tradition.

EDIT: I realised that the Gurus were absorbed in the Lord, Har Har, 8 Pehar (24 hours a day), but there must have been specific times where they sat down and meditate and / or recited Banis.

Edited May 9, 2011 by SikhKhoj

[dalsingh101]

I was reading a post on a blog by a Muslim girl and it was about Prophet Muhammads daily life, e.g. when he woke up, what prayers he offered, etc.

While reading I realised that I have never heard anything as of such within Sikhi. Yes we know upto Guru Gobind Singh Ji, we had Japuji / Anand in mornings, Sodar Rehraas in evenings and Sohila while sleeping, so the Gurus also did it. And lateron after Pahul, the Banis were finalised as they are today (5 Banian). But I'm sure the Gurus did other meditation / Banis aswel, so is there any account or any oral tradition.

EDIT: I realised that the Gurus were absorbed in the Lord, Har Har, 8 Pehar (24 hours a day), but there must have been specific times where they sat down and meditate and / or recited Banis.

I'm working on translating something by Prof. Sahib Singh that relates to this (his opinion on how Jaap Sahib was introduced to the community). I should have it done shortly (with God's grace).

[SikhKhoj]

I'm working on translating something by Prof. Sahib Singh that relates to this (his opinion on how Jaap Sahib was introduced to the community). I should have it done shortly (with God's grace).

Hmm is it only about Jaap Sahib being introduced or also Bhagti of the Guru Sahibaans in general?

May Satguru bless you with more bal and buddhi to do this Sevaa.

Edited May 9, 2011 by SikhKhoj

[dalsingh101]

Hmm is it only about Jaap Sahib being introduced or also Bhagti of the Guru Sahibaans in general?

I haven't finished it yet, but I'd say it was about introducing Jaap and educating Sikhs in general.

I'll get a move on with it. Needed something to push me on it actually.

[SikhKhoj]

Okay thanks, awaiting your article with impatience.

Besides, has anyone got any traditional accounts of Guru Sahibs bhagti life? Any JanamSakhi, Gurbilas, ...

[amardeep]

In my simple panjabi translation of Suraj Parkash there is a section that describes the everyday routine of Guru Hargobind Sahib

They used to wake up during amrit vela and do simran for an appointed amount of time, then listen to asa di vaar kirtan and then proceed to practice Shastar Vidiya with his soldiers (still during amrit vela). After this he would give darbaar in the afternoon and rehraas at evening followed by kirtan and then sohila at night.

(from the top of my memory).

Edited May 9, 2011 by amardeep

[dalsingh101]

In my simple panjabi translation of Suraj Parkash there is a section that describes the everyday routine of Guru Hargobind Sahib

They used to wake up during amrit vela and do simran for an appointed amount of time, then listen to asa di vaar kirtan and then proceed to practice Shastar Vidiya with his soldiers (still during amrit vela). After this he would give darbaar in the afternoon and rehraas at evening followed by kirtan and then sohila at night.

(from the top of my memory).

This sort of contradicts the contemporary comments of Gur Hargobind in Bhai Gurdas's vaars?

ਧਰਮਸਾਲ ਕਰਿ ਬਹੀਦਾ ਇਕਤ ਥਾਉਂ ਨ ਟਿਕੈ ਟਿਕਾਇਆ।

The earlier Gurus considered that to give instructions and to preach to the people, one has to sit at one place known as dharamshala, but this Guru (Hargobind) does riot stick to one place.

ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਘਰਿ ਆਵਦੇ ਗੜਿ ਚੜਿਆ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਚੜਾਇਆ।

Earlier emperors would visit the house of the Guru, but this Guru has been interned by the king in a fort.

ਉਮਤਿ ਮਹਲੁ ਨ ਪਾਵਦੀ ਨਠਾ ਫਿਰੈ ਨ ਡਰੈ ਡਰਾਇਆ।

The sangat coming to have his glimpse cannot find him in the palace (because generally he is not available). Neither he is scared of anybody nor does he scare any one yet he is always on the move.

ਮੰਜੀ ਬਹਿ ਸੰਤੋਖਦਾ ਕੁਤੇ ਰਖਿ ਸਿਕਾਰੁ ਖਿਲਾਇਆ।

Earlier Gurus sitting on the seat instructed people to be content but this Guru rears dogs and goes out for hunting.

ਬਾਣੀ ਕਰਿ ਸੁਣਿ ਗਾਂਵਦਾ ਕਥੈ ਨ ਸੁਣੈ ਨ ਗਾਵਿ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ।

The Gurus used to listen to Gurbani but this Guru neither recites nor (regularly) listens to hymn-singing.

[amardeep]

I think Bhai Gurdass is exagerating to create a better lingvistic feature - to turn it black and white to enhance his message as we say here in the cold north.

For instance we know that Guru Nanak and Guru Arjan travelled alot where as Bhai Gurdaas says that the earlier Gurus only stayed at one place.

Equally Guru Nanak was imprisooned by Babur, Guru Angad was threatened with death by Humayan and Guru Arjan was called for account by Akbar.

Its poetic features to show opposites, - not that they are historically correct but rather to enhance the obvious differences in lifestyles.

Edited May 9, 2011 by amardeep

[dalsingh101]

I think Bhai Gurdass is exagerating to create a better lingvistic feature - to turn it black and white to enhance his message as we say here in the cold north.

Interesting points. But I think that chevin padshah probably did turn the volume down on the prayer, devotional side of things and focused on the military/physical for a bit - to balance things out and prepare for the real threat facing the community. You can blatantly tell from the vaar that Guru ji was patronising the brave, anakhi, fighter types that softer, 'spiritual' people probably avoided like the plague. Hence the next line:

ਸੇਵਕ ਪਾਸ ਨ ਰਖੀਅਨਿ ਦੋਖੀ ਦੁਸਟ ਆਗੂ ਮੁਹਿ ਲਾਇਆ।

He does not keep his follower servants with him and rather maintains nearness with the wicked and the envious ones.

For instance we know that Guru Nanak and Guru Arjan travelled alot where as Bhai Gurdaas says that the earlier Gurus only stayed at one place.

Maybe it refers to settling in Kartarpur by Baba Nanak, plus Guru Arjan dev ji went out of his way to establish Amritsar as a rallying point for Sikhs. From the perspective/experience of many of their Panjabi followers, the previous Gurus would have been quite static once they settled themselves down as opposed to a hunting Guru, who obviously courted 'toughs'.

Equally Guru Nanak was imprisooned by Babur, Guru Angad was threatened with death by Humayan and Guru Arjan was called for account by Akbar.

The Babur incident (and presumably the Guru Angad one) are oral traditions with no external verification, whereas we have contemporary mention of Guru Hargobind's imprisonment. Akhbar favoured Guru Arjan. I think these are significant differences.

Its poetic features to show opposites, - not that they are historically correct but rather to enhance the obvious differences in lifestyles.

I think there is more truth in them than you do. ALthough I concede the point about the use of poetic devices, I still think we get a clear picture of what was going on.

[Mr Sardar]

[REMOVED]

Edited December 10, 2015 by sarbatdapala

[amardeep]

Eeh what does Islam have to do with this topic?

[SikhKhoj]

Thanks Amardeep. Can you please look up which ain that was? It must be between Raas 4 and 8 as those deal with Guru Hargobind Sahibs Jeevan.

http://www.ik13.com/online_library.html

DalSingh, I feel that is a poetic way to show something. I feel that it is not possible that a Guru didn't meditate or do Bhagti.

When you are waiting for a friend, and you call him, how often will you say 'o kithe aa yaar, ghainta ho gea udeekde nu'? We say that even though we just wait for them for 5-10 mins, but it is a human tendency to exaggerate things to get your points across.

Yes Guru Hargobind Sahib was different to all previous Gurus but to take Bhai Gurdaas Vaars literally is a tad bit exaggerated.

sarbatdapala, can we find these 'Ishnaan' sakhis in Pyara Singh Padams edited Sau Sakhis?

Please do not turn this into another Sikhi-Islam thread, you got enough others.

Guru Nanak Sahib took words right from God, not Muhammad or any other religion.

Edited May 10, 2011 by SikhKhoj

[amardeep]

Its in a panjabi translation I have here at home. I'll scan the pages for you on friday if you wish to read the short section

[SikhKhoj]

Ok, awaiting it.

[Mr Sardar]

[REMOVED]

Edited December 10, 2015 by sarbatdapala

[dalsingh101]

DalSingh, I feel that is a poetic way to show something. I feel that it is not possible that a Guru didn't meditate or do Bhagti.

I think I may be expressing my thoughts rather poorly on the matter. Allow me to try again.

What I mean to say is that I believe that priorities were reordered during this time. The need to prepare for war and organise for this obviously became a high priority for the Guru. I'm not suggesting that bani, bhagti was completely abandoned, rather the miri aspect of things took a more central stage than before. Leading to the (erroneous) impression that the more strictly spiritual stuff was being neglected. I think the vaar clearly reflects these sentiments.

So whereas before, there would have been a strong focus on solely spiritual people, Guru ji in his capacity as a leader began courting potential fighters, hence questions about his new associates. He also introduced hunting too, which may have been (seen as distracting if not inappropriate innovations to those who had a disinclination to such things or those who didn't understand the Guru's wider aims and objectives with such actions.

All in all, this wasn't wasn't neglecting spirituality at all (in Sikh terms) as one of the duties of the Gurus's was addressing the matter of the physical protection of the panth - on top of their spiritual needs. If anything it was a holistic approach to religious leadership. If this took a front burner in the period following the brutal state execution of Guru Arjan Devi ji, it shouldn't surprise us.

Hope this makes things more clear?

Edited May 10, 2011 by dalsingh101

[amardeep]

I dont understand Dalsingh, could you please quote some hadith to back up your point? lol

no i agree with u there..

[dalsingh101]

I dont understand Dalsingh, could you please quote some hadith to back up your point? lol

no i agree with u there..

Don't even joke like that or sarbat da bhalla will come along and post das hazaar Islamic youtube videos on the thread!

[jaikaara]

that guy should have done a phd in islamic studies

[dalsingh101]

that guy should have done a phd in islamic studies

He would have failed if the ideas he's posted here are anything to go by.

[jaikaara]

well...he should do it from afghanistan he could have become a khalifa !

[Mr Sardar]

[REMOVED]

Edited December 10, 2015 by sarbatdapala

[dalsingh101]

I still feel there is alot of similarities between Rumi and Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Okay, I'm glad you've come to some conclusion. Can you now stop flooding us with Islamic stuff please?

Besides I'm sure there are as many differences as similarities between the two.

Thanks in advance.

[SikhKhoj]

Yes I agree with that point of view. But you posted the Vaars in retaliation to what Amardeep said from his memory of Suraj Prakash. Which said that the Guru did bhagti, Asa Di Vaar, and other nitnem (Rehraas and Sohila). And you said it kind off contradicted Bhai Gurdaas Vaaran, which is not really true. It is not like Asa Di Vaar, Nitnem and Bhagti took several hours, it was only a set period of time, as the Shaster Vidya began after the nitnem (still at Amritvela).

Any ideas what Banis were recited during Yudh or before (during Guru Hargobind Sahibs time) ? I heard Sabad Hazare but got no proof for it.

Edited May 11, 2011 by SikhKhoj

[amardeep]

I think they recited Brahm Kavach which you can find on manglacharan.com in translation and original