Finding A Rishta(Partner)

[dalsingh101]

Maybe thats why they are soooo teeny weeeny cutsie small people?!

What you trying to say? That they look like ewoks or something?

[dalsingh101]

Or how about this guys, why dont sikhs marry other sikhs because they like them, not due to caste/creed/colour or facial hair.

Don't be so stupid. That is way too straight forward for apnay. We have to complicate the matter along multiple layers or else it's just not us.

[Mithar]

For a Sikh, his caste has no place. In western countries one cannot discard their last names because then there would be thousands of people with the same name as you. The preferable alternative would be for Sikhs of all castes to rather use the names of their Pinds/village/ilaaka which is actually the historical norm amongst the Sikhs rather then their gotra/caste based last name.

[SikhKhoj]

DalSingh, Afghan and some Pak Sikhs marry their cousins. So do some Khatri Sikhs in India. There are two explanations for Afghan and Pak Sikhs doing this; most of them are Khatri traders and they are forced to do so too due to the very small community in those countries (unwillingness of Indian parents to marry their children - especially girls - in Pak and Afghan, quite understandable haha)

Surya, Khatris are traders while Kshatriyas are warriors. They are not the same but I think I have seen that Guru Sahib used the word Khatri for Kshatriya in their Bani (Sehaskriti Saloks).

For all casteists:

ਹਮਰੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਪਾਤਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਹਮ ਵੇਚਿਓ ਸਿਰੁ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ॥

Sadly even 100 years ago some sects refused to give Amrit to lower castes. I have heard that Bhai Randhir Singh took Amrit with either a lower caste or an ex Muslim which caused quite some uproar amongst the "Sikhs".

What is wrong in retaining a family name? Gurbani identifies people with so called caste names too, so whats wrong?

[SikhKhoj]

As has already been mentioned before, Sikhism (and most of the other religions) are against discrimination that is based upon Caste/Tribe/Race/Religion. Not against these Identities itself.

Eg in Dasam Granth's Bachitar Natak, Guru Gobind Singh himself describes the origin and details of his Sodhi Clan of Khatris. Same is true about any other religion. In Islam, Prophet Muhammad's Quraysh Tribe is given detailed description of, In Buddhism, Buddha's is named after his Sakya Tribe aka Sakya-Muni.

I think its foolish to project this paranoid view of Sikhism prohibiting even to identify yourself with the name of the Tribe you are born in. Surely, Sikhism, Islam and Buddhism prohibit their followers from discrimination. But certainly there is nothing wrong in identifying yourself with the name of your Tribe.

Fine post from a hate filled thread in Jattworld.

http://www.jattworld.com/portal/modules/newbb_plus/print.php?forum=1&topic_id=5722

[dalsingh101]

Khatris are traders while Kshatriyas are warriors. They are not the same but I think I have seen that Guru Sahib used the word Khatri for Kshatriya in their Bani (Sehaskriti Saloks).

Are you sure? I thought khatri was the Panjabised form of Kshattri?

[G.Kaur]

For a Sikh, his caste has no place. In western countries one cannot discard their last names because then there would be thousands of people with the same name as you. The preferable alternative would be for Sikhs of all castes to rather use the names of their Pinds/village/ilaaka which is actually the historical norm amongst the Sikhs rather then their gotra/caste based last name.

The problem is that pinds are based on castes, we have jatt pinds, tarkhan pinds etc. and in the pinds there are few other families who don't belong to the same caste as the majority.

If I used my nanke or dadke pind as my lastname people would still know what background I used to have.

[Mithar]

The problem is that pinds are based on castes, we have jatt pinds, tarkhan pinds etc. and in the pinds there are few other families who don't belong to the same caste as the majority.

If I used my nanke or dadke pind as my lastname people would still know what background I used to have.

Pinds are not named after castes. There are exceptions though, like some pends have the same name as the inhabitants of the Pind. For example, I have seen some Pinds called Gillan where many Gills and most of the inhabitants are Gills. Another example is a Pind in Gurdaspur named Virk, even though nearly all the people living in the Pind are Kahlons. So if those Kahlons were to use their Pinds name, then they would become Virks LOL

But 99% of the Pinds of Punjab are not named after last names or caste. During the olden times, Sikhs of all castes would use their Pind's name. Even during the militant movement of the 80s and 90s, all the Sikh militants would use the name of their Pinds, the only exception being the Babbars who would add "Babbar" to their name. Just look at the example of the Damdami Taksal Sants. Even though it was Sant Sundar Singh Jee who was from Bhinderkalan, but to this day all the Sants of Damdami Taksal add "Bhindranwala" to their name even though they are not even from Bhinderkalan.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Mithar

[asd]

i've done all the shaadi.coms, jeevansaathi.com, sikhmatrimonials, gurmat.com's...i think plenty of fish.com is left tho lol

like i said b4, i been through family, relatives, friends and granthis. one granthi of a major gurdwara in toronto contacted us to say that they have a singh available if we are interested for my sister. she said not until u find a girl for my bro...that was 6 months ago and no call back from him lol. i told her to go for it and see if the guy is nice and if u guys get along or else u'll be like me, in my early 30's(was my bday on sat)and no one's interested :|

i hoped maybe sum bibia from this form could enlighten us on what is more important to them in finding a mate. ie.. is sikhi more important or wealth/education/appearence/dhari length

i think it was G.kaur the only girl that wrote sumthing on this topic tho..

any who...

Edited June 14, 2011 by asd

[G.Kaur]

Pinds are not named after castes. There are exceptions though, like some pends have the same name as the inhabitants of the Pind. For example, I have seen some Pinds called Gillan where many Gills and most of the inhabitants are Gills. Another example is a Pind in Gurdaspur named Virk, even though nearly all the people living in the Pind are Kahlons. So if those Kahlons were to use their Pinds name, then they would become Virks LOL

But 99% of the Pinds of Punjab are not named after last names or caste. During the olden times, Sikhs of all castes would use their Pind's name. Even during the militant movement of the 80s and 90s, all the Sikh militants would use the name of their Pinds, the only exception being the Babbars who would add "Babbar" to their name. Just look at the example of the Damdami Taksal Sants. Even though it was Sant Sundar Singh Jee who was from Bhinderkalan, but to this day all the Sants of Damdami Taksal add "Bhindranwala" to their name even though they are not even from Bhinderkalan.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear, what I meant was that there are jatt pinds where the majority of the inhabitants are jatts and then a few other non-jatt families, there are tarkhan, julaha, chamar, khatri pinds etc. The names of the pinds are not based on castes, but most people know that x pind is a jatt pind, y pind is a tarkhan pind etc.

To give you an example: Near my nanke pind there's a pind called Skoper, and everyone know that it's a jatt pind. So if someone had Skoper as their lastname everyone would know he/she is a jatt.

I hope it makes sense.

[Matheen]

Care to explain?

Jes. I was looking for a Singhni who truly loved Guru Ji and hence rehat etc. I would say that 99% of 'Amritdharis' I was introduced to did beadbi of Kesh (mostly eyebrows), didn't wear all5 Kakkars, lapsed in Nitnem etc.

Maybe just a sign of the times.

[Mithar]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear, what I meant was that there are jatt pinds where the majority of the inhabitants are jatts and then a few other non-jatt families, there are tarkhan, julaha, chamar, khatri pinds etc. The names of the pinds are not based on castes, but most people know that x pind is a jatt pind, y pind is a tarkhan pind etc.

To give you an example: Near my nanke pind there's a pind called Skoper, and everyone know that it's a jatt pind. So if someone had Skoper as their lastname everyone would know he/she is a jatt.

I hope it makes sense.

not all the inhabitants of a Pind belong to a particular caste. India`s villages are multi caste villages. Some pinds, the jats may be a majority, doesn't mean everyone from that pind is a Jat. There`s a famous pind in Jalander where Chamars are 90% of the inhabitants, and only a few Jat families. I know one guy from that Pind who is a Jat by caste, but he isn`t a Chamar just because he comes from a Pind which is 90% Chamar and no one mistakens him for being a Chamar either.

Another example is Badal. Badal is the pind of Prakash Singh Badal who is a Jat. But his former agriculture minister Gurdev Singh Badal who also uses `Badal` next to his name is not a Jat, yet no one says Gurdev Singh is from Badal village so he must also be a Jat. Historically, Sikhs (of all castes) have always used the name of their Pinds as an alternative last name since using the Pinds name is neutral and does not denote one`s caste affiliation.

[dalsingh101]

My cousin comes from a pind called Jatana. Which I think is also a Jat surname. So it can get complicated like that.

[SikhKhoj]

A village mostly has several castes/tribes living in it. Especially the former Muslim villages have a diversity.

Anyways,

Page 1393, Line 12

ਭਲਉ ਪ੍ਰਸਿਧੁ ਤੇਜੋ ਤਨੌ ਕਲ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਜੋੜਿ ਕਰ ਧ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਇਅਓ ॥

भलउ प्रसिधु तेजो तनौ कल्य जोड़ि कर ध्याइअओ ॥

Bẖala▫o parsiḏẖ ṯejo ṯanou kal▫y joṛ kar ḏẖeā▫i▫o.

The son of Tayj Bhaan of the Bhalla dynasty is noble and famous; with his palms pressed together, KALL meditates on Him.

Bard Kal-sahar - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Page 1396, Line 5

ਭਲਉ ਭੂਹਾਲੁ ਤੇਜੋ ਤਨਾ ਨ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਨਾਥੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਰਿ ॥

भलउ भूहालु तेजो तना न्रिपति नाथु नानक बरि ॥

Bẖala▫o bẖūhāl ṯejo ṯanā nripṯ nāth Nānak bar.

Guru Amar Daas, the son of Tayj Bhaan, of the noble Bhalla dynasty, blessed by Guru Nanak, is the Master of kings.

Bard Sala-y - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Page 1401, Line 13

ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਭਲੇ ਕਉ ਦੀਆ ॥

अमरदास भले कउ दीआ ॥

Amarḏās bẖale ka▫o ḏī▫ā.

which He passed on to Guru Amar Daas, of the Bhalla dynasty.

Bard Ga-yand - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Gurfateh

Edited June 14, 2011 by SikhKhoj

[G.Kaur]

I never said pinds are composed of only one caste, but the fact is that most pinds in Punjab have inhabitants (the majority) of one caste and then there are a few families who don't belong to the majority.

I am against using family names as your lastname because your family name reveals your caste/or the caste you use to belong to. There's a reason why Guru Gobind Singh Jee told men to have Singh as their lastname and women Kaur. By using Singh and Kaur you're "anonymous", no one knows about your background. We all know that we're going to discriminate people based upon their family name.

Like I said before, if I told you my family name or the name of my dadke or nanke pind you would know about my background.

[Mithar]

GKaur, not a single village in Punjab is composed of only one caste. Especially ex Muslim villages have much variety. Best way is to use family name and not discriminate based upon caste. Why are you guys so phobic about it, nothing wrong with it.

Well Dal I have always heard Khatri (Baniya) and Kshatriya not being same. Some say they are though.

Khatris are not Baniyas. These are two distinct castes. Khatris of Punjab were the ancient Kshatriyas of India that we read about in the ancient epics of India. This warrior community over time left their historical (warrior) profession and become merchants and shop keepers. It was to such Khatris that Guru Nanak Dev Jee writes: Khatrian ta dharam chodiya, malech bhakhia gahi (SGGSJ-Ang663).

Our Gurus (who were also Khatris) created a community where anyone whether they be farmers, barbers, wood workers, shop keepers, priests can all abandon their birth caste based distinctions and become warriors the likes of which India has never seen, which is known as the Khalsa.

Associating our selves with our caste we are associating with something impermanent. Our caste is only here till this lifetime. Our previous lifetimes and future lifetimes who knows what our caste or race or even species was. But Khalsa is eternal. If you are a faithful hukmi Khalsa, then you will be a Khalsa in all future lifetimes regardless of what caste or race you were born in. So it is ones choice whether they want to associate with the caste or race of the body which is impermanent, temporary and only bound to the current lifetime, or to the Khalsa which is everlasting.

The Atma has no caste or race only the body does. A Sikhs is suppose to realize this fact and not associate with the impermanent body to which the caste or race belongs to. We need to uplift our Atmik Jeevan rather then associating with associating with somethings so materialistic as one`s caste or race.

[dalsingh101]

Khatris are not Baniyas. These are two distinct castes. Khatris of Punjab were the ancient Kshatriyas of India that we read about in the ancient epics of India. This warrior community over time left their historical (warrior) profession and become merchants and shop keepers. It was to such Khatris that Guru Nanak Dev Jee writes: Khatrian ta dharam chodiya, malech bhakhia gahi (SGGSJ-Ang663).

Our Gurus (who were also Khatris) created a community where anyone whether they be farmers, barbers, wood workers, shop keepers, priests can all abandon their birth caste based distinctions and become warriors the likes of which India has never seen, which is known as the Khalsa.

Associating our selves with our caste we are associating with something impermanent. Our caste is only here till this lifetime. Our previous lifetimes and future lifetimes who knows what our caste or race or even species was. But Khalsa is eternal. If you are a faithful hukmi Khalsa, then you will be a Khalsa in all future lifetimes regardless of what caste or race you were born in. So it is ones choice whether they want to associate with the caste or race of the body which is impermanent, temporary and only bound to the current lifetime, or to the Khalsa which is everlasting.

The Atma has no caste or race only the body does. A Sikhs is suppose to realize this fact and not associate with the impermanent body to which the caste or race belongs to. We need to uplift our Atmik Jeevan rather then associating with associating with somethings so materialistic as one`s caste or race.

Forum gold.

Edited June 14, 2011 by dalsingh101

[G.Kaur]

Khatris are not Baniyas. These are two distinct castes. Khatris of Punjab were the ancient Kshatriyas of India that we read about in the ancient epics of India. This warrior community over time left their historical (warrior) profession and become merchants and shop keepers. It was to such Khatris that Guru Nanak Dev Jee writes: Khatrian ta dharam chodiya, malech bhakhia gahi (SGGSJ-Ang663).

Our Gurus (who were also Khatris) created a community where anyone whether they be farmers, barbers, wood workers, shop keepers, priests can all abandon their birth caste based distinctions and become warriors the likes of which India has never seen, which is known as the Khalsa.

Associating our selves with our caste we are associating with something impermanent. Our caste is only here till this lifetime. Our previous lifetimes and future lifetimes who knows what our caste or race or even species was. But Khalsa is eternal. If you are a faithful hukmi Khalsa, then you will be a Khalsa in all future lifetimes regardless of what caste or race you were born in. So it is ones choice whether they want to associate with the caste or race of the body which is impermanent, temporary and only bound to the current lifetime, or to the Khalsa which is everlasting.

The Atma has no caste or race only the body does. A Sikhs is suppose to realize this fact and not associate with the impermanent body to which the caste or race belongs to. We need to uplift our Atmik Jeevan rather then associating with associating with somethings so materialistic as one`s caste or race.

You hit the nail on the head, Mithar.

[Xylitol]

asd,

i'm not a girl but i can tell you what girls look for varies widely. some are dharmic and seek a dharmic minded partner. others are more worldly, while some are in between(follow dharm mainly for social reasons, or are weak in it). i believe that like attracts like, you must build yourself up so that you yourself have the qualities that you are looking for in a mate. i have kind of noticed this play out in my own life as well.

there are shabads in various granths for finding a partner if you want to use them. but mainly, i would just say do more seva, you'll get laha and meet new people. just go nishkaam if you can though.

[Mithar]

I never said pinds are composed of only one caste, but the fact is that most pinds in Punjab have inhabitants (the majority) of one caste and then there are a few families who don't belong to the majority.

I am against using family names as your lastname because your family name reveals your caste/or the caste you use to belong to. There's a reason why Guru Gobind Singh Jee told men to have Singh as their lastname and women Kaur. By using Singh and Kaur you're "anonymous", no one knows about your background. We all know that we're going to discriminate people based upon their family name.

Like I said before, if I told you my family name or the name of my dadke or nanke pind you would know about my background.

There are exceptions in my view where it would be a good idea for someone not to keep their village name. Take a look at this news report of villagers whose village name is like a curse itself:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110126/punjab.htm#5

[Akaal Ustat]

I tend to get opposites attracted to me. In the words of Ronaldinho "I may be ugly but I'm charming"

[G.Kaur]

Jes. I was looking for a Singhni who truly loved Guru Ji and hence rehat etc. I would say that 99% of 'Amritdharis' I was introduced to did beadbi of Kesh (mostly eyebrows), didn't wear all5 Kakkars, lapsed in Nitnem etc.

Maybe just a sign of the times.

Hmm..

In January there was a Smagam and Amrit Sanchar in Germany. After the Amrit Sanchar Panj Pyare said the Sangat could come and hear the Rehat they were going to tell those who have just been blessed with Amrit. The Singh said that nowadays people don't want to wear all kakaars. Some people wear a little Kirpan and a Kanga around their neck, and then he said, why don't we just wear a Kechara around our necks too?

[G.Kaur]

There are exceptions in my view where it would be a good idea for someone not to keep their village name. Take a look at this news report of villagers whose village name is like a curse itself:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110126/punjab.htm#5

How sad.

[SikhKhoj]

Baniya is not only a caste but also means trader, same was as Jatt also means farmer. Baniya has Aroras and so do Khatris, they somewhat overlap each other.

So basically Khatris come from Kshatriyas and are not same. Just like Ahirs come from Yadavas.

What if one can identify your 'background', the main thing is not discriminating based on that.

Keeping a family name for identification purposes is not anti Gurmat. Gurbani identifies people with that aswell, so I see nothing wrong.

"We all know that we're going to discriminate people based upon their family name." - We should only speak for ourselves.

In 50 years people will be intermarrying people from same (extended) family which is a shame. It has already happened with people who had stopped using family names.

Do you only have problems with family names because they suggest what 'caste' you belong to? Like would you have a problem with a Gora Singh keeping McLeod as family name?

[dalsingh101]

The problem with what you are saying khoj is that (from what it looks like to me), certain caste identities are innately built on notions of superiority and differentiation. They are the actual genesis or the seed of the subsequent discrimination and overall bewakoofi that takes place.

From my experience the people who are the most conscious and vehement about their caste identity are usually the ones who are the most backward and rigid when it comes to trying to overcome the shameful discrimination our people engage in over it.

Plus what about looking a few steps forwards too? Imagine a time when hordes of Sikhs are actually from a mixture of Panjabi caste backgrounds. This thought usually has conservative, caste lovers feeling feint but ultimately that is what we are looking at happening in the west. Once the female foeticide thing really kicks in back home, they too will be forced to mix. The way I see it, preserving these identities is essentially guaranteeing we preserve the idiocy associated with them. Frankly it keeps us suspended in some outdated, backward, hate filled feudal system that has no context outside of India.