Learning Taanti Saaj

[K-Kaur]

VaheGuru Jee Kaa Khalsa

VaheGuru Jee Kee Fatheh!

Would anyone kindly suggest some practical tips on how to learn and how to get started with a Saaj ... I'm particularly enticed by the Taus and Dilruba so would preferably choose to learn one of the two.

Can a Taus/Dilruba be obtained in the UK? If so where can I find one, if not then could you please direct me to a suitable Website or provide contact details of where I can get one.

Is there anything I should be looking for in my Saaj, I remember someone mentioning that the height of the Saaj should be particularly longer if the musician is tall in height just for comfort purposes?

I just want to get started and prepare myself before joining a class or Ustaad etc.

Please do share any information in regards to preparing to learn as a beginner in these beautifully divine classical instruments.

Sri Akaal Jee Sahae!

[SURYADEV]

Try the naamdhari gurdwara in B'ham - but only if you want the best!

otherwise try your local gurdwara.

otherwise no better way to prepare or get started than to find a good Guru. anything you do beforehand is just procrastination.

[chatanga1]

wednesfield gurdwara sunday evening at 6 upstairs darbar.

[K-Kaur]

SURYADEV - Thanks for the information, I agree the Naamdharees are the best in maintaining and teaching high standards in Classical Raag Keerthan, I've checked the Website and its stated that they do Music Classes on Thursday Evenings ... Have you or anyone on here been to those classes? Any feedback? Or I'll just pop down and surprise them

Chatanga1 - Thanks for that, I'll make a point of checking it out soon

In regards to locating a Dilruba/Taus in the UK - So far no one has been able to suggest a suitable place other than Raj Musicals in Delhi ... Are there any other options or do I have to wait till visiting India, unless they do delivery to the UK?

[SURYADEV]

No I haven't been their to learn. Though I did think that their classes took place Sunday mornings. I would contact them first before popping down, incase no one is there.

Re. the instruments. i'd say wait until you start learning and then ask your teacher to recommend suppliers. He/she will be able to guide you better in terms of what to look for a price wise.

[shaheediyan]

Being a Namdhari alone does not alone qualify one to be good at kirtan, this is an incorrect stereotype. As there are many mainstream or jathebanday kirtani, who are not highly qualified, same is true for Namdhari. The real Namdhari Talent is in Bhaini Sahib, Punjab.

In the UK there are around 5-6 worldclass musicians, the best being Bhai Surjit Singh (Sarangi), others being Bhai Kiranpaal Singh (Santoor) and Bhai Ranbir Singh (Taus).

Chatanga, does Ranbir Singh still teach Taus/Dilruba at Wednesfield (last I heard he was starting up an export business or something)? If so, Bhenji, I would recommend learning from him. he is probably the best Taus player in the world, and has raag vidya and great vidya of Jori (puratan bol) and other tanti saaj also.

His Gurdev is Bhai Surjit Singh - who is without a doubt the best person to learn tanti saaj from in the UK. He is a Master in the truest sense of the word.

Re buying saaj, nearly all 'Ustaads' will mark up the price. And most (inc above mentioned) get their saaj from Raj Musicals in Delhi (they make the highest quality saaj). That's why it's better to buy direct from them. Yes, they do deliver to the UK.

You can buy 2nd hand in the UK, most people take extremely good care of their saaj (because they are expensive), so buying 2nd hand is good idea, makes environmental sense too. Bhai Harjinder Singh Lallies students in UK (he also teaches in Wolverhampton, Leamington and Birmingham) mostly play dilruba, so he usually has or knows about 2nd hand saaj, and his price is usually reasonable too. He is also a good person to learn from, he is not a full time musician like the Namdharis, but is good and knows raag, and specialises in Taus and Dilruba (which are essentially the same saaj).

There are a few other mainstream Gursikhs in the UK (and many in Punjab) I have seen totally unconnected top Namdhari etc, who are extremely talented also.

If you buy a saaj and want to know the basics, drop me a pm, I will send you a sheet with all the tuning information and sur positioning etc.

[Guest zulu]

No I haven't been their to learn. Though I did think that their classes took place Sunday mornings. I would contact them first before popping down, incase no one is there.

Re. the instruments. i'd say wait until you start learning and then ask your teacher to recommend suppliers. He/she will be able to guide you better in terms of what to look for a price wise.

No sundays they have a few hours of naam simran usually and a bit of kirtan, I usually go to the bham namdhari gurdwara...

Why don't you contact Harjinder Singh laille? he's a really good ustad and he has a range of classes all over the west mid

[Guest zulu]

Chatanga, does Ranbir Singh still teach Taus/Dilruba at Wednesfield (last I heard he was starting up an export business or something)? If so, Bhenji, I would recommend learning from him. he is probably the best Taus player in the world, and has raag vidya and great vidya of Jori (puratan bol) and other tanti saaj also.

I'm sure he's gone inside for a few years for fraud? it was on the news online a few months ago

[shaheediyan]

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Star-musician-pound-64-000-scams/story-14218989-detail/story.html

The story of the export business makes sense now. The judge sums it up perfectly, what a waste of talent. He seems to forget though in giving advice that he should continue his music career, that in both Hindustani classical and kirtan, one's reputation precedes them.

I've been out the music scene for a couple of years so thanks for sharing the info. Will adjust my future advice accordingly.

[chatanga1]

yeah, unfortunately Ranbir Singh is inside, poor guy. Shaheediyan I was gonna pm you this news but as its come into the open anyway.

[K-Kaur]

Thanks for all the feedback ... Yeah it's unfortunate about Bhai Ranbir Singh ... Just goes to show that Maya can take over even the best of us.

Has anyone heard of a Raag Rattan Gutka Sahib? Does one exist, if so where is it available? I've tried DTF but no luck. Has anyone referred to this 'Gutka Sahib' and is it useful?

[chatanga1]

never heard of it, where did you hear of it?

unless its a kirtan learning book.

Edited April 30, 2012 by chatanga1

[SURYADEV]

Only ever come across Amar Kirtan and Amrit Kirtan.

BTW

I understand TAANTI SAAJ to mean STRINGED INSTRUMENTS.

So in grmat sangeet does this exclude all other classical and folk instruments?

[chatanga1]

such as what surydev?

[chatanga1]

In regards to locating a Dilruba/Taus in the UK - So far no one has been able to suggest a suitable place other than Raj Musicals in Delhi ... Are there any other options or do I have to wait till visiting India, unless they do delivery to the UK?

RM do make very good instruments, better than the ones you will get in Jalandhar.

[shaheediyan]

Paap certainly does engulf most, to different levels. No one group is exempted, religious or not. Very few diamonds truely encompass the asleeyat of dharma into their jeevans.

Tanti does indeed mean stringed, so this includes amongst others:

Taus

Dilruba

Saranda

Sarangi

Taanpura (although this a drone, rather than saaj per se)

Rabaab

Sarod

Veena

Sitaar

Taarshanai etc

The above vary between bowed open and bowed fretted, and strings played with fingers.

Bhaansari (flute) and harmonium are 'vaaja' basically saaj which use air.

Tabla, jori, dholak, dholki, pakavaj, nagara etc obviously drums.

Edited April 30, 2012 by shaheediyan

[SURYADEV]

such as what surydev?

As shaheediyan just mentioned : baansri , also the beeni and that double 'beeni' like instrument. But also various drum-type instruments ie the gaghar.

[K-Kaur]

Apparently the Gutka Sahib is called 'Raag Rattan Sangeet' and it's by Prof Kuljit Singh ... A friend recommended it as they use it whilst learning to play different Raags with their Dilruba.

It's written in Gurmukhee and it goes into detailed knowledge of each Raag, the emotions the Raag brings about, Sur's along with the appropriate Shabad, etc.

I've never come across this before, so if anyone does happen to find it (or an alternative) then kindly let me know. Thanks!

[SURYADEV]

Apparently the Gutka Sahib is called 'Raag Rattan Sangeet' and it's by Prof Kuljit Singh ... A friend recommended it as they use it whilst learning to play different Raags with their Dilruba.

It's written in Gurmukhee and it goes into detailed knowledge of each Raag, the emotions the Raag brings about, Sur's along with the appropriate Shabad, etc.

I've never come across this before, so if anyone does happen to find it (or an alternative) then kindly let me know. Thanks!

Try chattar singh/jeevan singh publishers in Amritsar. They would be my 'go to' people for such hard to find books.

[chatanga1]

or Singh berothers next door to Chattera.

There are many book s like this. I have a 4 set book on Raag, its called Gurmat Sangeet Sagar.

Anyway may Ustad Ji, told me you can never really learn a lot from books when it comes to learning Kirtan, you need an Ustad to show ou how todo it. Only limited learning/basics from books.

Edited May 2, 2012 by chatanga1

[DSG]

K-Kaur

I went to Namdhari temple in Birmingham to learn the Dilruba on Thursdays for a while , the teacher then was Gurch , who vocally was very good , and in the same class taught the Vaja and dilruba , his brother the tabla , it was a one to one kind of lesson , so if you go be prepared to wait for your turn

I thought he was good in the sense he could teach , theres a lot of very good players but cant teach , ..... he will teach you the basics , how to sit , bow properly , arch your hand etc... ( which alot of teachers dont tell you ) .... then practice your basics , make it your foundation , when going to the lessons , show what you have learnt , then he will fine tune your technique ............ in that sense i thouhgt he was very good ..

( These Lessons were free then ( approx 2years ago now , i assume they still are)

Harjinder SIngh Lallie teaches on Sunday Mornings( 7am-8:30am) at a school in Birmingham near Birmingham University

He is very organised and structured , dont know much about his teaching techniques

Ranbir Singh ( shocked to hear the news ) , practically was very good , made you practice non stop , techniques wise didnt tell me much , just told me to keep playing so didnt know whether holding of the bow , arm movement etc was correct or whether i was adopting a bad habit ,,,, but overall in his lessons you felt you had a good workout .

There was ( dont know if there still is) in Namdhari Temple ( Gurmukh) was organising a Dilruba class ( there was a fee for this , but not much )

Hope this helps , if you need their numbers / emails let me know i'll try to dig them out ...( send me a personal message )

[SURYADEV]

I dont know about the others, but Harjinder Lallie also teaches or did teach western stringed instruments.

I found him very forward thinking when I used to learn from him ie if he picked up a new teaching or performing methodology he would pass it on. (But that was in the early 1990's when I used to go to his house to learn)