Does The 9Th Guru Profess To Being A Hindu?

[Guest]

I agree sgpc should go back to original definition of sikh. Everyone is sikh. SGPC should include all (as it should be)- including sindhi sikhs/ravidassia/kabir panthis etc as sikhs. Khalsa (Akaali nihangs, Nirmale) is saint-soldier orthodoxy order/form of sikh panth to protect and uphold sikh dharma and serve humanity. Sikh panth should include all.

[1234]

blah blah blah

the forum for dipshit retards is over thataway....

[Guest]

you can live with your delusions N30, i have no intention of pricking your baloons.

without sounding arrogant, i find your claims (sikhi gurmat is source where everything came from), at best, hilarious. If I understand your claims correctly, you are saying that Gurus did not give us anything new or unique, it was always there. No such thing as hinduism religion, i dont know about hinduism (or Hindu dharma as mentioned by Gurus in Gurbani) but Sikhism and esp khalsa 'dharam' is nowhere. it is a figment of tat khalsa, singh sabha toddies' imagination. "many schools of thoughts" includes Sikhism and khalsaism. Fragmentation is everywhere. Sikhs have khalsas, sehajdharis, namdharis, nirankaris, nirmalas, sindhis, ravidassiyas, mazhabis, Ramgharias and so on. I dont know what you call "gurmat" which unites, blends 'everything'.

Gurmat/Sikhi is eternal/anadi, its always been there since aad and during yugas- during previous yugas- satyugas,dvapar. But it was fully personafied/manifested by Satguru nanak dev nirankar in kaliyuga which bought everything together and blended them beautifully in khalsa panth. I am not talking about groups. I am talking about theological/spiritual aspects which is not owned/propagated by bhram, vishnu, shiv. I am talking about shabad gyan which is underpinning aspect of all. It's from the shabad (om/oan-non transcedental/Ong-transcedental resosance) everything came. We don't beleive in authority of bhram-vedas, shiv, vishnu, we acknowledge and beleive their duties, but we don't worship them. We are upasakh of non dual shabad nirgun gyan.

Khalsa dharam is clearly listed in sri dasam guru granth (Ugardanti), sri sarbloh granth and among others. It's protector of dharama which uphold dharma.

Khalsa has all the ingredients which a cult would have. it got to be a really weird dharma as it finds no mention (except one passing reference by a pre-khalsa poet - Kabir) in the main scripture or where not one pankti has been written by a Khalsa. Almost all ten Gurus were not Khalsas. It is a fraud being played on other Sikhs by SGPC led neo-Sikhs who have not only usurped Sikhi but have also polluted it with their numerous karam kands (5 kakkars, amrit chako, 5 pyare jaloos, gold on temple domes, etc). casteism is rampant in Sikhism/khalsas. Jats dominate each and every sphere, the so-called low castes are denigrated, discriminated against.

Diff castes have separate gurdwaras and low castes are not even allowed to cremate their dead in the same shamshan ghat (cremation ground) as the jats forget anything else. if a Mazhabi dares to marry a Jat girl, we do not have to guess what would be his fate.

Dalit atrocities: SC body gets 11,000 complaints

http://www.indianexp...laints/1188152/

which world you live in, i am not sure but in Sikh majority Punjab, besides caste discrimination, female foeticide is also part of the culture authored by Jats. Women can take amrit and prayer starts by invoking Bhgauati mata but that's it. can a woman be one of the panj pyaras or a Harimandir pathi or Takht jathedar? NEVER.

I agree sgpc is not a real representation of khalsa- akaali nihangs/nirmale-sant khalsa are but that does not nullify khalsa itself.

Whole khalsa intiation is very divine, symbolic and full of divinty represenation, what other intation is out there? Who treates all the same, which has all the aspects of vahiguroo combined- bhagti, shabad-yog, shakti, gyan all in one - Khalsa.

Meaning of khalsa - enlightened being which is all prevadaing regardless of caste, creed, race.

Sri guru granth sahib redefines what bhramin should be? True bhramin who sees bhram in all. Off course bhramins didn't like full overhaul of their commercial system because its totally abolishes curropt bhramin system - money extortion from poor, power and control over low caste all in the name of dharam.

Khalsa totally destroy bhramin superamist claims and its authority..Khalsa gives all the vidya free to all regardless of caste, creed, race....Khalsa both have both shaastar and shastar vidya. Khalsa is complete in all aspects.

Khalsa is (not limited to caste thats the beauty) chivalry order upholds dharma/propagates dharma and uproots curroption of bhramins and tyranny by uphold dharma values in its purest gurmat form.

That's not very intelligent statement so i better not waste time over such Udhoke like idiocy.

Here swami ramdev acknowledges, whole hindustan would have been mughalstan if it wasn't for sri guru gobind singh ji and shakti aspect in your impotent bhagti aspect.

What!! You dont believe in Avatars? so what is chaubis avatar, Chandi Charitar, bachitar Natak, Waar Bhagautiji ki...about? even if we accept that sikhs do not believe in Avatars for a split second, so? even arya samajis do not believe in 'avtar worship'. Dasam Granth says Ram katha jug, jug atal. There is hardly any avatar which is not mentioned with reverence in Adi Granth.

We acknowledge respect avtars were sent by akaal to propagate dharama. But we don't worship them as our central theme of sikh dharma is shabad guru/shabad gyan- One jot all prevalading which is ultimate non dual reality.

Sri guru gobind singh ji pays respect to previous avtars of akaal purkh which were sent to propagate dharma but in the same breath makes it absolutely clear from gyan aspect- totally rejects their authority -equates them to countless worms which were nothing infront of akaal purkh himself and shows jot in ant and jot in ram is all same, how they screwed up in front of maya shakti and how everything ultimately was destroyed by kaal-maha kaal even narsingh kaal avtar was destroyed by maha kaal-kaal..It totally raises bar of seeker from idol sarguna worshippers to only one ultimately reality of Ik0ngkar.

Gurmat is complete full dharma which binds all its aspects and shows ultimate reality.

That shows how confused neo-Sikhs are. Too many contradictions in Adi Granth and they are reflected among the followers.

We don't beleive in vedas authority at all but at the same time we don't reject in its totality either. We acknowledge knowledge of self and bhram in vedas.

We beleive in meditation of satguru-shabad guru and sangat of enlighten being(sadh sangat/bhramgyani) which triumphs all vedas and its authority too the point bhram-creator of vedas, vishnu, shiv all seek darshan of khalsa- enlightened being.

[Guest]

This is from khalsa mehima by sri guru gobind singh ji in sri dasam garnth:

Khaalsaa mero roop hai khaas |
Khalsa is my image of my own nobility.

Khaalsae meh houn karon nivaas |
Khalsa is my dwelling place.

Khaalsaa mero mukh hai angaa |
Khalsa is my foremost body.

Khaalse ke houn sad sad sanghaa |
Khalsa is ever and forever connected with me.

Khaalsaa mero ist suhirad |
Khalsa is my most sincerely favored.

Khaalsaa mero kahaee-at birad |
Khalsa is my renowned ancestry.

Khaalsaa mero pachh ar paataa |
Khalsa is my fame and good name.

Khaalsaa mero sukh aheelaadaa |
Khalsa is my comfort and content.

Khaalsaa mero mitra sakhaaee |
Khalsa is my most familiar friend.

Khaalsaa maat pitaa sukhdaaee |
Khalsa is my mother, father, and source of comfort.

Khaalsaa mere sobha seelaa |
Khalsa is my beauteous benevolence.

Khaalsaa sakha sad ddeelaa |
Khalsa is my steadfast and close companion.

Khaalsaa mere jaat ar pat |
Khalsa is my clan and honorable name.

Khaalsaa sou maa ko utpat |
Khalsa is my creation.

Khaalsaa mero bhavan bhanddaaraa |
Khalsa is my home, storehouse and treasury.

Khaalse kar mero satkaara |
Khalsa is my true virtue.

Khaalsaa mero svjan pravaraa |
Khalsa is my respected progeny.

Khaalsaa mero karat udaaraa |
Khalsa is my liberator.

Khaalsaa mero pindd paraan |
Khalsa is my communal spirit.

Khaalsaa meree jaan kee jaan |
Khalsa is my beloved life and soul.

Maan mehat meree Khaalsaa sahee |
Honor and greatness is my Khalsa’s insignia.

Khaalsaa mere svarth sahee |
Khalsa is my attestation to correct conveyance.

Khaalsaa mero kare nirbaah |
Khalsa is my source of strength.

Khaalsa mero deh ar saah |
Khalsa is my body and breath.

Khaalsaa mero dharma ar karam |
Khalsa is my duty and destiny.

Khaalsaa mero bhed nij maram |
Khalsa is my mysterious special secret.

Khaalsaa mero satgur pooraa |
Khalsa is my true enlightener fulfilled.

Khaalsaa meraa sajjan sooraa |
Khalsa is my friend and hero.

Khaalsaa mero budh ar giaan |
Khalsa is my understanding of divine knowledge.

Khaalse kaa houn dharon dhiaan |
Khalsa is the ambition of divine contemplation.

Oupmaa khaalse jaat na kahee |
The tribute of the Khalsa nation is indescribable.

Jehvaa ek paar neh lahee |
One lifetime of utmost appraisal cannot fully apprise.

Ses rasan saarad see budh |
They are entirely of discerning intellect.

Tadap na upmaa barnat sudh |
They take no notice of their consequence.

Ya mai ranch na mithiaa bhakee |
I swear I have made no mistake in my telling of his composition.

Parbhram gur naanak sakhee |
Supreme God and Guru Nanak bear witness to the evidence of this testimony.

Rom rom je rasnaa paanoo |
If each and every hair could they would declare,

Tadap Khaalaa jas teh gaaoon |
They each, the Khalsa’s fame should sing,

Hau khaalse ke khalsa mero |
I am of Khalsa and Khalsa is mine,

Ot pot saagar boondero |
Like sheltering sands or drops of the sea.

Khaalsaa akaal purakh kee fauj |
Khalsa is the Immortal Being’s militia.

Pragattio khaalsaa pramaatam kee mauj |
Creation of the Khalsa is the Supreme Being’s will.

Jab lag khaalsaa rehe niaaraa |
While the Khalsa remains distinct.

Tab lag tej keeou mai saaraa |
Then I offer the dignity of my favor.

Jab eh gehai biparan kee reet |
But should they disaffect to the opposition.

Mai na kare in kee prateet |
I no longer shall extend my trust.

[Guest]

Listen to this what khalsa worships:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMgR5Es-kA8

[1234]

dont waste your time with this clown neo his mind is made up something as trivial as reality and facts wont change his opinion

[1234]

Word hindu in gurbani described in gurbani in many places have different meaning depending on various different context, it mostly used to describe people belong to hind/indic demographics.

its also used to collectively describe the sanataan dharam in many places for example ang 1136

[dalsingh101]

Oupmaa khaalse jaat na kahee |

The tribute of the Khalsa nation is indescribable.

It's very interesting that Khalsa has been referred to as a jaat here!!!

Edited November 7, 2013 by dalsingh101

[Guest]

It's very interesting that Khalsa has been referred to as a jaat here!!!

Khalsa Jaat is Jaat of one humanity - One non dual vision of humanity - advait nirbhaou nirvair sidhant. Sidhant of sri akaal ustat.

[Bundha]

It is not about what YOU believe in. it is about what Gurus believed in - they believed in Hindu/indic theology completely. as i said before, they lived like khatri Hindus and they were cremated like khatri Hindus. you have failed to cite one feature in Adi granth which is new, unique to sikhi.

The Gurus rejected Hindu/Indic theology from the outset. When told to put on the janau, the mark of a Hindu, Guru Nanak Dev Ji rejected it. When seeing Hindus offering water to their ancestors Guru Ji started offering water the other way. When Guru Ji ascended the heavens the flowers under the white sheet were taken away by muslims and hindus, showing that this new panth was all embracing and unique.If the Gurus were cremated it does not follow that they were Hindu.

Although respected the Vedas, Puranas, Shastras (Hindu scriptures) hold no relevance to Sikhs.

Sikhs do not believe in fasting

Sikhs do not believe in the jineu, marks of the Hindu

Sikhs do not believe in high caste or low. If this has crept in it is due to the fault of its devotees not of the faith.

Sikhs do not hold any significance in ritual shaving of the head, in fact removing of hair id forbidden in Sikhism.

Sikhs reject Idol worship

The Gunga river (Ganges) holds no significance for a Sikh.

Brahama, Shivji and Vishnu hold no significance to a Sikh

First define Hinduism. What is Hinduism?

It is a myriad of beliefs with a dazzling array of gods and goddesses with devotes of each locked in performing worship to each deity. Some pooja Shiv Ji, Ganash, Hanuman others go for Durga mata or Kali. Some take a different route and worship snakes, rats, elephants or monkeys, each person choosing his or her own route to salvation. Sikhs do not look down on Hindus, they have chosen a route, albeit a long one, but for a Sikh the only true path to the Almighty One God is one of Gurmat, the path laid by Guru Nanak Dev Ji and the nine Guru's culminating in the miracle of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Sikhism and Hinduism are distinctly separate religions. Hinduism believes in caste distinctions, worships idols, and astrologic divination. Most Hindus are not monotheist, that is, they worship a god or goddess from a large array of deities. Sikhs on the other hand believe in the equality of all persons of both genders, do not believe one day to be more auspicious than another. Sikhs acknowledge the existance of gods and goddesses, which are akin to angels and Sikhs show them great respect but when a Sikhs head bows, it bows only to the One timeless God who is beyond birth and death

You may bathe and wash, and apply a ritualistic tilak mark to your forehead, but without inner purity, there is no understanding. ||6|| Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Raag Raamkalee. p903

If Sikhism is a sect of Hinduism then there would have been no need for the creation of a new path, no need for new customs. At the time of Guru Nanak Dev Ji there had existed the Ramayan and Mahabharat Hindu scriptures. Along side these were the four Vedas and Simaraties and Purans, why was there a need to craft a new scripture in the form of the holy Guru Granth sahib as compiled by Guru Arjun Dev Ji? From the outset Guru Nanak Dev Ji's whole intention was to create the True path that leads to the meging of the soul into the One great Soul, as proscribed by God.

The deities are chastised for not putting people on the path of the one Almighty but rather making them their own devotees.

Those who serve Shiva and Brahma do not find the limits of the Lord. Guru Amar Daas Ji. Raag Gujri p516

Sikhism has a concept called sewa. Sewa means to do selfless service to your Guru or the congregation (sangat). As the Guru resides in the congregation as ‘Guru Sangat’ then any service to the sangat is service to the Guru. Other faiths have service, the Christians have soup kitchens and so on, but the concept in Sikhism is unique. From the outset Guru Gobind Singh Ji declared that he would reside in the sangat and if any one wished to meet him then they should do selfless service to the sangat and it would reach him. Hence in the Gurdwaras across the world individuals busy themselves dusting and cleaning the shoes of the sangat, they stand in the Gurdwara wafting large fans over the sitting congregation, they clean and wash and sweep in true devotion. The free kitchen (langar) in which any person can partake extends from this basic concept. All offerings that you bring to the gurdwara that are used in the langar and end up in the mouths of the sangat ultimately reach Guru Sahib Ji. This concept is not found in any other faith on

Earth. In the free kitchen all are expected to sit side by side and eat the same simple meal. In Islam you are not allowed to enter many of their sites, women are also restricted. A Hindu Brahmin will not sit next to a Suddra or low caste, yet in Sikhism when Emperor Babur came to pay his respects he was first asked to sit with the common man and eat langar before Guru Ji would meet him.

The whole idea of Naam Simran is unique to Sikhism. There is no such thing in any of the Semitic faiths, the closest would be Hinduism but this is also greatly lacking. The path as described by Guru Nanak Dev Ji is unique, it is full of love and devotion for the Almighty. It expects not only true and clean living by an individual but also to remember the Lord with each and every breath. To simar, repeat, His name with ones soul, so that countless lifetimes of sins can be washed away.

Really? where did u get this meaning from? Khalsas and enlightened? I dont think so? Khalsas the distortionist, negationists? Khalsas the ostrichs with head buried deep in sand? absolutely!

You see Khalsa as ostriches’ others see them following their Gurus command and gaining spiritual enlightenment. Sure there are bad apples in all walks of life, but the khalsa was created by Guru Ji and will pervade long after you and me have turned to dust.

[Guest]

You are a senior jathedar N30, you know that there is no such Khalsa Mahima in Dasam Granth. Word khalsa/khalse comes once in both Adi Granth and Dasam Granth.

Check 33 swaiyes from sri dasam granth and also sri sarbloh granth:

ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥

सवैया ॥

SWAYYA

ਜਾਗਤਿ ਜੋਤ ਜਪੈ ਨਿਸ ਬਾਸੁਰ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਨ ਨੈਕ ਨ ਆਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਸਜੈ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਗੋਰ ਮੜੀ ਮਟ ਭੂਲ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥

जागति जोत जपै निस बासुर एक बिना मन नैक न आनै ॥ पूरन प्रेम प्रतीत सजै ब्रत गोर मड़ी मट भूल न मानै ॥

He is the true Khalsa (Sikh), who remembers the ever-awakened Light throughout night and day and does not bring anyone else in the mind; he practices his vow with whole heated affection and does not believe in even by oversight, the graves, Hindu monuments and monasteries;

ਤੀਰਥ ਦਾਨ ਦਇਆ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹ ਏਕ ਪਛਾਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਜੋਤ ਜਗੈ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਖਾਲਸ ਤਾਹਿ ਨਖਾਲਸ ਜਾਨੈ ॥੧॥

तीरथ दान दइआ तप संजम एक बिना नह एक पछानै ॥ पूरन जोत जगै घट मै तब खालस ताहि नखालस जानै ॥१॥

He does not recognize anyone else except One Lord, not even the bestowal of charities, performance of merciful acts, austerities and restraint on pilgrim-stations; the perfect light of the Lord illuminates his heart, then consider him as the immaculate Khalsa.1.

ਸੱਤਿ ਸਦੈਵ ਸਰੂਪ ਸਤਬ੍ਰਤ ਆਦਿ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਗਾਧ ਅਜੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਦਾਨ ਦਯਾ ਦਮ ਸੰਜਮ ਨੇਮ ਜੱਤ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਸੀਲ ਸੁਬ੍ਰਿਤ ਅਬੈ ਹੈ ॥

स्ति सदैव सरूप सतब्रत आदि अनादि अगाध अजै है ॥ दान दया दम संजम नेम ज्त ब्रत सील सुब्रित अबै है ॥

He is ever the Truth-incarnate, Pledged to truth, the Primal One Begnningless, Unfathomable and Unconquerable; He is comprehended thourgh His qualities of Charitableness, Mercifulness, Austerity, Restraint, Observances, Kindliness and Generosity;

ਆਦਿ ਅਨੀਲ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਨਾਹਦ ਆਪਿ ਅਦ੍ਵੈਖ ਅਭੇਵ ਅਭੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਰੂਪ ਅਰੂਪ ਅਰੇਖ ਜਰਾਰਦਨ ਦੀਨ ਦਯਾਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲ ਭਏ ਹੈ ॥੨॥

आदि अनील अनादि अनाहद आपि अद्वैख अभेव अभै है ॥ रूप अरूप अरेख जरारदन दीन दयाल क्रिपाल भए है ॥२॥

He is Primal, Blemishless, Beginningless, Maliceless, Limitless, Indiscriminate and Fearless; He is the Formless, Markless, Lord Protector of the lowly and ever compassionate.2.

Khalsa worships 'Ram Katha' which is "jug jug Atal'

Thats a most hilarious thing i read, next thing you going to tell us- khalsa worships unicorns which fly.

Khalsa worship raam which is raamiya hoya- which is all prevading which is nirgun roop of vahiguroo not ram chandar ji, even grade 1 student in theology can tell you that. As i said earlier, gurmat/Khalsa acknowledges ram avtar and respect them even wrote raam avtar along with chaubis avtar give all the avtars of vahiguroo credit where its due and set the record straight where they failed infront of maya shakti of akaal purkh himself in akaal purkh play-tamasa... gurmat/khalsa respect sargun hari avtars of akaal purkh but does not wrap its head around sargun aspects as ultimate goal is to only worship one jot of akaal purkh and help sargun upasakhs who fail to see ultimate reality- attach them from sargun to nirgun****. Ultimately, Gurmat/Khalsa only worship one nirgun jot which is all prevading and in ram and in small ant- unequivocally

Really? where did u get this meaning from? Khalsas and enlightened? I dont think so? Khalsas the distortionist, negationists? Khalsas the ostrichs with head buried deep in sand? absolutely! Khalsa all prevading? what does it mean as khalsa is an endangered species and one day it would is appear from earth or would be restricted to Punjab's few districts.

Khalsa regardless of caste... once again, that's a fallacy. i gave u a link earlier. over 11000 complaints have been registered with anti-discrimination body in Punjab.

Sri sarbloh granth clearly talks about definition of khalsa and above that i posted in previous post all from sarbloh granth and sri dasam granth sahib ji:

One who knows Inner ambrosial/self nectar (“Atam Rus”) is Truly Purified Lord(“Khalsa Dev”) .

(“Atam Ras Jeh Janye So Hi Khals Dev”)

There is no difference between ME, God & Him (Pure being);

(“Prabh Meh Moh Meh Taas Meh Ranchak Nahin Bhed”)

[Guest]

***Jab Jab Hot Arsat Apara

Tab Tab Deh Dharat Avtara (Bachitar Natak)

Whenever numerous tyrants take birth
Then that one takes avtar in physical form.

Every one should read 18 long pages anyalsis in english on avtarvad and sikhi by tirath singh nirmala in Bhavrasamrit teeka translations and commentary. It's very interesting and clarifies gurmat position on avtarvaad and clears lot of misconception.

Whilst gurmat uses concept of avtar where it needs to, according to time (puran hari avtar great stories etc, narsingh to kill harnakash and save parlad, nit avtars- saints etc) and for devotion for gurmukhs (sargun vahiguroo upma in our granths - sri guru granth sahib, sri dasam granth, sri sarbloh granth and other ithasik granths soraj parkash etc be it in form of gurbani tuks, mangal charan etc) it does not over emphasize importance on avtars to the point where sikhs start making same mistakes as some follower of other avtars did in the past have did - mistaking the gunas (shud satogun etc) themselves as nirgun chaitan vahiguroo instead of transcending naturally to gyan layer of sikhi or also idiolizing the avtars limited to an idol worshipping and getting stuck at idol worshipping forgetting indestructibale nirgun paratma. Hence, having dvait (duality) contary to Gurmat, as Gurmat is advait (non duality Marg).

Gurmat uses very careful and balance approach when it comes to avtarvad and Sikhi so sikhs don't pitfall like other followers of other dharams have. Gurbani contains two sides of same coin to teaching on avtar emphasing brahman (nirgun paratma) in sat chit anand ( Ad ant eko avtara sohi samjheo guru hamra) and on other side of coin presenting sargun paratma in form of our guru sahin, previous avtars to invoke prem towards akaal purkh taking avtars in various different forms.

Considered carefully there is no contradictions here on two sides of same coin on avtarvaad, its only clear guidance about the two paramaters by which to understand nature of avatar; the symbolic form is to inculate devotion, inspiration, adoration, love and sacrifice purely as a means to realise that which is beyond gunas

Ighai Nirugn Ughai Sargun kel Karat Bich Swami Mera
Here ( you are) formless; there (you are) with form. You play it both ways, O my swami || Ang - 827

[dalsingh101]

Sher has a point.

Many low life, hogi jat fudus and other obnoxious twats have totally disregarded egalitarianism because they are so insecure about themselves, that they need the prop of their exaggerated caste 'magnificence', to give them a sense of worth. Sikhi aint enough for these dicks and they need x, y or z to make themselves feel special. lol

These low life mother f***ers have put Sikhs in a position where any one can come and (rightfully) point their finger at our hypocrisy.

If you are one of these scum bags, who drag Sikhi in the toilet with your insecurities and need to big yourself up, please top yourself or f**k of to another community.

Thank you for your time.

[Guest]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyqy5hDiG1M&feature=share&list=PLFFC6CECC1EA94C76

[Guest]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNZs3WPtfpI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUNTxThOqr_bW6WbpO-lt4Gw

[dalsingh101]

and N30 still wants to tell me that Khalsa has revolutionaised hindu samaj.

It still has the potential too.

Edited November 9, 2013 by dalsingh101

[1234]

Sher has a point.

Many low life, hogi jat fudus and other obnoxious twats have totally disregarded egalitarianism because they are so insecure about themselves, that they need the prop of their exaggerated caste 'magnificence', to give them a sense of worth. Sikhi aint enough for these dicks and they need x, y or z to make themselves feel special. lol

These low life mother f***ers have put Sikhs in a position where any one can come and (rightfully) point their finger at our hypocrisy.

If you are one of these scum bags, who drag Sikhi in the toilet with your insecurities and need to big yourself up, please top yourself or f**k of to another community.

Thank you for your time.

these types exist in every community ours is no different one thing iv notice about these ignorant pendus ive met in my personal life tho is that most of them know nothing about sikhi they wouldnt even be able to name our ten guru sahibs and they are hard drinkers on top of that but sadly because of a pagh and trimmed beard people will associate them with sikhi

It is not about what YOU believe in. it is about what Gurus believed in - they believed in Hindu/indic theology completely.

LOL

I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan.

I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end.

The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah

He adminsters justice to both Hindus and Muslims

I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines.

I serve the One Lord, and not any other.

I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers.

I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there.

I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.

There are countless other examples I could take from the Guru Granth Sahib Ji that prove that the Gurus rejected 90% of hindu theology but theres no point posting them here you would just ignore them and pretend they didnt exist you should realise one thing and that it your only preaching to the choir only other lunatic hindu nuts will agree with what your saying any sane person will see through your bs sikhi is the tisar panth get over it

[dalsingh101]

Absolutely! it has the potential to be the most 'modern' faith in the world but that cannot be achieved by making it exclusive. Sikhism should go to the original form as in first nine Gurus' days. 5 kakkars are for ONLY Khalsa Sikhs and not all of Sikhs.

Nah, there is perfect logic behind Guru ji making SIkhs visually stick out. Even the kara on its own has serious power. GGS favoured the Khalsa, that much is indisputable, and I say this as a sehajdhari myself, so it isn't like I'm trying to big my own group up. In any case most of us are at least descendants of Amritdharis. That's what most Panjabi Sikhs have in common; at some stage one of our ancestors took Amrit. It might be different for Sindhis, but this is the score for Panjabis.

Any Sikh dissing Khalsa symbols is an idiot - simple.

The problem is that the bar got set so high by our ancestors its almost impossible to maintain it today. But trying to do this should be the aim of every one.

Edited November 9, 2013 by dalsingh101

[1234]

Thunderous why stop here, why dont you give the complete shabad?

My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both.

Says Kabeer, this is what I say:

meeting with the Guru, my Spiritual Teacher, I realize God, my Lord and Master.

"My body and breath of life belong to ....Raam

Which part you did not understand or are denying?

Same Kabeer also says:

Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald

Long hair ..no big deal acc to the Bani. Show me ONE doha, one pankti which supports the khalsa features ( 5 kakkars)

Giving the complete shabad doesnt change a thing and whats the point of bolding raam lol. I know even you realise that the shabad isnt refering to ramchander but rather the one god since that exact same shabad refers to the same god as both ram and allah and since when did i say that it is immpossible to love god if you have cut hair.It was Guru Gobind Singh Ji who completed and formalized the sikh panth not bhagat kabber ji.Guru Granth Sahib ji is not a history book the khalsa features are not mentioned in the sggsji because of the same reason other sakhis about the lives of the gurus are not mentioned

Why would i ignore what you have posted here? The Gurus' criticism of some 'Hindu' rituals is as correct as Adi Granth stating that having long hair does not make any difference. 90% of Hindu theology rejected, now that its worth debating as there is absolutely no difference between Sikh and Hindu theologies. Are you claiming that Gurus rejected 90% of Sikh theology? Looks like you have difficulty understanding what the term 'theology' means in the first place. Let me rephrase. What, in your opinion, is Sikh theology?

Its not just a condemnation of hindu rituals its a flat out denial of being a hindu or muslim.A great chunk of islam is basically the same as judaism and Christianity so does that mean islam is not unique or separate from judaism or Christianity does that mean there is no such thing as islamic theology just because the snatan dharam got somethings right and some things wrong doesnt mean that we either accept it all in its totality or reject it all in its totality the truth was the truth since the beginning of time the gurus rejected most of hinduism because it was false not because it was hindu in the same way they accepted parts of the snatan dharam because it is true not because its "hindu".

Sikh theology is khalsa theology.Guru Nanak dev ji brought the truth of god down to earth him and his followers were niether hindus or muslims. Guru Gobind Singh Ji the tenth form of Guru Nanak devi ji organized and formalized those followers into one distinct and unique panth. The tisar panth. The khalsa panth.

[Guest]

Sher you seem to have issue with keshas.. Let's deal with that point first then we can move on. Here are some facts:

1. All sikh snatan avtars sikhs Ram, Krishan, bhram, vishnu, shiv all chaubis avtars, devis 33 crore devtas even including Buddha in fact all santnan sikhs were all keshadharis until different school of thoughts of buddhism came and influenced India with moni look.

2. Having kesh have spiritual scientific significance all yogi's had in the past, listed to video of sadh guru why yogi/sadhus have long hair and many other research on YouTube.

3. Shabad you posted talks about specific order who is main thing is to grow kesh and wrap their mindset around it so it's atam updesh to them by bhagat kabir ji. So you are taking out of context. You also have to look at historical aspect of shabad.

4. Five kakars were snatan symbol, all five kakars were all there in yugas separately separately. Since it was satguru nanak nirgun roop creation to begin with , he bought everything together and blended beautifully in khalsa while some rest of arya Samajis i follow some Buddhist way of moni instead of connecting to their root.

[Singh123456777]

No, this is not. This is not a part of Dasam Granth. such mahimas came much after the 10th Guru sahib.

It comes from guru gobind Singh Ji sache patshah writings.It is located in Sri sarbloh Granth.

[ekam123]

I'm new and i thought i might join and have fun

Sher where have you learned your vidiya from what samparda? Whose your teacher becasue those english translations are not

very good

your justifying not keeping hair with gurbani lines tare talking about something completely different, unless your vidia guru told you that if not your using your own mind (also known as manmant) to convince us, everything you said is just from your own point of view in relation to sikh beliefs and traditions, you didnt exist for more than however old you are, dude stop embarrasing yourself,.your seriously making a fool of yourself.

and N30 singh is using actual vidhvans to back him up who can trace their lineage and have learned from a samparda

they're not ridiculing hair, but ridiculing people that keep their hair and are lost in maya..

N30, that was pretty disappointing. I thought you are a serious scholars who would quote from bani. Youtube is for Udhoke like hate-mongers and 2-minutes historians

dude thats your own opinion, doesnt mean you are write. What do you know about who is a scholar and isn't

theres a pangti that describes god with long hair, in ramkali saadh bani

there is one on page 387 that is translated into english as i clean the feet of my guru with my hair

according to sikh sampard's its our gurus hukam to keep hair..lt starts around the 4 minute mark only two minutes long

http://harkeekatha81878.podomatic.com/entry/2013-04-25T14_57_26-07_00

Edited November 10, 2013 by ekam123

[Guest]

All sikh snatan avtars sikhs Ram, Krishan, bhram, vishnu, shiv all chaubis avtars, devis 33 crore devtas even including Buddha in fact all santnan sikhs were all keshadharis

N30, what should i say, you are talking so confidently about mythological figures (except buddha who was a mendicant who did not have inclination to visit hair saloons which did not exist anyway). looks like your ideology is partly driven by calendar art. i dont know how you have confirmed the hairdos of 33 crore devte.

It's nishani of snatan dharam being natural , long kesh. You can deny all you want under some buddhist /arya samajis (british) influence.

Well, yogis are also shaven-heads, naked (Nagas and Jains), mutilated genitals, jattadhari and so on. As far as I know, Bani criticises all of these esp the last one - yogis with matted hair. How they pull each and every hair out of jain monks (inc females) heads,makes me shiver. Sikhi preached by Baba Nanak was for grihsts and not yogis. Kesh have spiritual scientific ...what!! Looks like, if we are to believe you, topi and tilak wearing Gurus did not have much idea about the spirituality and science you are talking about. the same for gurbani - slams long hair yogis in so many dohas.

Aside kesh is indication/nisahni of being natural puratan snatan traition...Kesh have spiritual scientific reasoning its used an aid, here one of the many videos you can educate yourself:

The Jains with shaven heads, the silent ones, the beggars with matted hair - in the end, they all shall die (page 476)

The Yogis die, with their matted hair, but even they do not find Your state, Lord (page 654)

You make your hair beautiful, and wear a stylish turban on your head.

But in the end, this body shall be reduced to a pile of ashes. (page 659)

and scores of other such pangtis ridicule long hair.

Gurbani is not ridiculing long hair or doing khandan of long hair all together but rather gurbani is giving updesh to mindset of people or group stop wrapping their head around or getting caught up- long hair, big turban outer aspect only and making that as road block in their spirituality.. making that as main goal of dharam than sat, santokh,dya, dharam, bhagti, advait. gyan

Now i have posted more. you can go on rejecting gurbani but you have nothing in support of your assertion.

See-above

Of course 5 kakkars existed like so many other things, snatan symbols? i doubt pretty much and, anyway, such karam kand has no place in Gurbani. You are belittling Gurus and other poets in Adi Granth by making them look like karam kandis. also, why grow just hair why not nails? same God has given us nails too, why we 'murder' nails?

You are more influenced by reformist british arya samaji philosphy than traditional indic philosophy of seeing things in stages.. acknowledge your own shortcoming instead of rejecting everything and failing to see things in stages- layers of dharam- shariat, tariqat, marfat and hakikat.

We don't wear five kakars as karam khand (all five kakars connects to pratical bhagti-shakti universal aspect) , everything has symbolic and reasoning and its in stages, keshas have spiritual scientific pratical significance as i posted, kachera is symbolism for jaat and saat- its one of sanatan symbol- ram chandar ji gave it hanuman- see sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale, kara is symbolm of unity in oneness, kanga is to take of keshas to ensure there are no knots, kirpan (blending shakti into bhakti aspect) is to upheld dharama with dya and nirbhou nirvair sidhant.

We are very well aware of karam khand aspect as we look things in stages, in fact thats the very reason satguru nanak-gobind singh took avtar in sargun form to take care of its own creation- raise the bar for yogis, sanayasi, sargun bhagats to only mediate on Ikongkar- akaal purkh.

Khalsa (teesra panth) is complete dharama which has bhagti and shakti together to upheld dharam, propogate dharam and defend dharam.

[Guest]

This is from sri dasam granth, please link : http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=1351&english=t&id=119504

Quote

ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥

सवैया ॥

SWAYYA

ਜਾਗਤਿ ਜੋਤ ਜਪੈ ਨਿਸ ਬਾਸੁਰ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਨ ਨੈਕ ਨ ਆਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਸਜੈ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਗੋਰ ਮੜੀ ਮਟ ਭੂਲ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥

जागति जोत जपै निस बासुर एक बिना मन नैक न आनै ॥ पूरन प्रेम प्रतीत सजै ब्रत गोर मड़ी मट भूल न मानै ॥

He is the true Khalsa (Sikh), who remembers the ever-awakened Light throughout night and day and does not bring anyone else in the mind; he practices his vow with whole heated affection and does not believe in even by oversight, the graves, Hindu monuments and monasteries;

ਤੀਰਥ ਦਾਨ ਦਇਆ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹ ਏਕ ਪਛਾਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਜੋਤ ਜਗੈ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਖਾਲਸ ਤਾਹਿ ਨਖਾਲਸ ਜਾਨੈ ॥੧॥

तीरथ दान दइआ तप संजम एक बिना नह एक पछानै ॥ पूरन जोत जगै घट मै तब खालस ताहि नखालस जानै ॥१॥

He does not recognize anyone else except One Lord, not even the bestowal of charities, performance of merciful acts, austerities and restraint on pilgrim-stations; the perfect light of the Lord illuminates his heart, then consider him as the immaculate Khalsa.1.

ਸੱਤਿ ਸਦੈਵ ਸਰੂਪ ਸਤਬ੍ਰਤ ਆਦਿ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਗਾਧ ਅਜੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਦਾਨ ਦਯਾ ਦਮ ਸੰਜਮ ਨੇਮ ਜੱਤ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਸੀਲ ਸੁਬ੍ਰਿਤ ਅਬੈ ਹੈ ॥

स्ति सदैव सरूप सतब्रत आदि अनादि अगाध अजै है ॥ दान दया दम संजम नेम ज्त ब्रत सील सुब्रित अबै है ॥

He is ever the Truth-incarnate, Pledged to truth, the Primal One Begnningless, Unfathomable and Unconquerable; He is comprehended thourgh His qualities of Charitableness, Mercifulness, Austerity, Restraint, Observances, Kindliness and Generosity;

ਆਦਿ ਅਨੀਲ ਅਨਾਦਿ ਅਨਾਹਦ ਆਪਿ ਅਦ੍ਵੈਖ ਅਭੇਵ ਅਭੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਰੂਪ ਅਰੂਪ ਅਰੇਖ ਜਰਾਰਦਨ ਦੀਨ ਦਯਾਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲ ਭਏ ਹੈ ॥੨॥

आदि अनील अनादि अनाहद आपि अद्वैख अभेव अभै है ॥ रूप अरूप अरेख जरारदन दीन दयाल क्रिपाल भए है ॥२॥

He is Primal, Blemishless, Beginningless, Maliceless, Limitless, Indiscriminate and Fearless; He is the Formless, Markless, Lord Protector of the lowly and ever compassionate.2.

[Genie Singh]

Doaba sher I think this goes all the way back to our original discussions of what is a hindu and the lack of a definition of a hindu, but the definition of a sikh can be found in guru granth sahib, sarbloh granth and rehat marayada aswell as rehat nama.

I don't get the tesar panth thing there were more than 2 religions in the mughal era why did Christianity the world's largest religion have no numerical mention in that? Guru Nanak must have met christians and a christian operated on guru gobind singh. Gurbani does mention france by name which was a christian land in dasam granth it says the french sing the praises of god, although france is majorly atheist as a nation

Edited November 15, 2013 by JatherdarSahib