Tribal Identity And Sikhi

[mrsingh]

So is a Sikh classless society one without Gots?

Ideally yes bir'ay ... but its ok to be called Jung Singh (Bramptonwala) to avoid confusion on occasion.

There were misls like Ramgarhia , Ahluwalia so its not just about dropping the last name ..as Singh123456777 pointed out belittleing others is against Sikhi.

Jaikaara Ji, presumably you are aware that 90% of the Khalsa Sant-Sipahi in the Ramgarhia Misl were of non-tharkhan ancestry? Ie the sons of erstwhile Brahmins, Jatts, Saini's, Shoemakers, Mazhabi's etc, etc all fought under the leadership of Sardar Jassa Singh (Ramgarhia Misl). The proportion of those of non-kalal ancestry fight under the esteemed leadership of Sardar Jassa Singh (Ahluwalia) was even greater than 90%. That says it all about how united, how casteless our Panth was previously in history and how disgraceful we are in 2014 to have fallen below those levels of adherence to Gurmat. The least we should do is strive for all Gurdwara's to be saanjhe and united within 5 years, matrimonial apartheid to be left as the preserve of Hindu's and Muslims and for all social stratification within the Panth to be eliminated not only on our hearts but also as visibly seen in academic results of all whether poor or rich, timka ja flaana.

can a classless society ever exist? Has one ever existed anywhere?

It has existed. The Panj Piare are the foremost and first example of that as a microcosm. For a hundred odd years such a society was mirrored ... our departure from the ethos of the founding principles of the Khalsa Panth have led us to where we are today in 2014.

I think that Guru Sahibaan probably were against discrimination more than being against classification or stratification.

Guru Sahib were 100% against discrimination, classification and stratification (which can be argued as being a euphemism for apartheid)

Since the quote that I was earlier skeptical about (Hum Brahmin ka poot nahi, Kshatriya ka hoon --- sorry for not knowing the Tuk properly) is actually included in Bani, it is clear that stratification is just.

I personally believe that Guru Sahib taught us that Sikh Panth must attend to the spiritual needs of humanity, that we must serve the defensive needs of scoiety, that we must attend to dietary needs of society (no human being should go hungry on this planet) and that we must look to serve others (regardless of the innocent's religion) if we wish to call ourselves Sikh. Those Amritdhari GurSikhs that do not believe in the genealogy ascribed to Guru Sahib in Bachittar Nataak also reject the authorship of the words you mention in brackets above).

Makes sense too. For, Varna are necessary for society to function.

Hinduism states that. Sikhi and Gurmat rejects that hypothesis.

If you dont believe in this then read Plato's plagiarist work: The Republic. It is a complete ripoff of Indian society. Also, I remember coming across some Tuks in Shri Sarbloh Granth Sahibji, if I am not mistaken, about Kalyug being an age where Varnas would be composed of beings unfit for their ascribed duties/dharma.

Who wrote the so-called SG brother?

Society crumbles when Business communities/ vaishyas rule societies and leave Kshatriyas to become their industrial labor class --- this is whats happened in India. The business class has been successful in their coup and overthrown a society which was functioning pretty well until foreign rule disrupted it. Eventually, Guru Maharaj came onto Earth and re-established Satyug and this time made it the responsibility of all Varnas to contribute to the cause of defence.

I don't overly disagree with what you state here except that I would substitute Kshatriya's with "others" in the first sentence in the above paragraph.

Being Sikh should not mean that you cannot be in a varna or caste.

In reality Sikhs have clung on for too long to the Hindu's and Muslims beloved concept of caste. However, we should strive as per Gurmat to demolish this evil lie of caste.

Its just that if we are Kshatriyas or Brahmins, we should not be discriminating against lower Varnas.

There is simply no such thing as ethnic Kshatriya's or ethnic Brahmins being stratified by God deliberately for the good order of society.

This is exactly the lie the enemies used against us to dismiss the bravery of Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji (dismissed for his supposedly cowardly and polluted caste according to Muslims and Hindu's). Similarly so in the case of Bhai Mati Das Ji and Bhai Sati Das Ji. Dera Ballan want Hindu chamars to only intermarry with Hindu Chamars because they fear that in the Khalsa Panth those like Shaheed Baba Sangat Singh Ji who led the Khalsa Fauj and Giani Ditt Singh who was the academic brains behind the increase in the Sikh Panth's numbers towards the end of the 19th century are lionized. These are just five examples ... look at our Panj Piare ... from Orissa, from Dravidian South India, from Gujarat, you name it ... Sikhi da itihaas is replete with examples showing us clearly that caste is a lie. This is why the enemies of the Panth wish to divert our attention away from Sri Anandpur Sahib and send us on yatra's (pilgramages like the Hindu's and Muslims undertake) to Sri Hemkhunt Sahib instead.

The whole Mahabharat is about the emergence of Kalyug principles. Even Gramsci contests that the business class has become the ruling class and relegated other classes to mere labourers. This is the main problem.

I agree with Gramsci on that.

I am supporting Theocracy here but in light of the recent comments and based on my derived and potentially wrong understanding, tribal identity probably isn't bad, its just the discrimination and the ideology that an individual's tribal background should dictate his/her social function.

In the context of Sikhi in the current century and given our aping of the matrimonial apartheid systems of the Hindu's and Muslims ... even acknowledging difference on the basis of tribal identity or advertising one's individual ancestry is bad for our Panth and we need to discard such anti-Gurmat falsehoods as fast as possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDZBKeI4ac8

If we stop discrimination than the other caste would never ever convert.Discrimination is the problem.

Agreed.

There is nothing wrong with calling oneself a jatt or mazhbi etc.

There absolutely is. By mentally acknowledging or categorising oneself as different to a fellow Sikh is the root of all the madness. We are Sikh full stop!

The gurus wanted ultimate loyalty to the guru and not the caste.

Guru Sahib wanted ultimate loyalty to God and our commitment to fight for the welfare of our fellow human beings in a weaker position than us.

But did they just abolish it?

Yes they did! Bir'ay don't believe the lies that Santa fed his followers when Indira Gandhi was lining his pockets!

For example the gurus wanted the mistris to have ultimate loyalty to the guru and not other gurus etc(the mistris have a mistri guru).

Guru Sahib wanted all of us never to forsake Ik Onkar rather than loyalty in the form you seem to be suggesting.

You can even say the gurus promoted caste such as making the sikligars.

Bir'ay what you have just said is simply ridiculous! By reminding Sangat of all backgrounds that shastar are vital for being tyaar bar tyaar and many Sangat engaging in the same as a profession ... in no way, shape or form is that creation of a caste! Not surprising though given that is what Santa taught his followers - namely, that caste is ok and its cool.

We should be proud of our heritage of a jatt or mistri,mazhbi and so on but have loyalty to only guru ji.

Agreed, nothing wrong in respecting one's ancestors. However, advertising one's ancestry as a means of demarcation and division from another Sikh or using it as a prop for justifying matrimonial level apartheid are a disgrace and vehemently anti-Gurmat.

Mistris, or Tharkhans or Ramgarhias, all praise Guru VishkarmaJi.

Bhai Lalo Ji and Sardar Jassa Singh and Bhai Sukha Singh ... none of them gave a damn about the fictitous imaginary Vishwakarma.

They saw themselves as Sikhs alone. Their orginal ancestry simply highlights their immense contribution to Sikh itihaas (as many enemies of Sikh like to portray us as being only from ancestry that comprises less than 50% of the Panth) . Sikhi alone defined them and all of our Panth de Heere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi5ZV9LeVk0

Edited February 27, 2014 by mrsingh

[Singh123456777]

...

Edited February 27, 2014 by Singh123456777

[JungChamkaur]

According to this logic, we might as well start criticizing Pehli Patshahi Maharaj for His Sacha Sauda.. he fed Hindu sadhus and sants as seva.... respecting sants, pirs, avtars, mahapurushs etc. is in our Dharam. We are not haters, we are lovers. Guru Vishkarmaji can be someones spiritual Guru, its up to them. But if one is Sikh, for him or her, Guru Vishkarma can still be a person they aspire to in a professional manner. If I love Guru Sahiban, it doesnt mean that I cant respect my political science professors.... and call them Guruji as they have always been called in India. This idea that we can only respect our Gurus and the word Guru can only be used for spiritual Gurus is wrong.

[Singh123456777]

...

[GtLoc]

Mr singh you show your ignorance of Indian history by not speaking on migrations. You Assume India Was hindu, All Modern Indians in india from time immoerial, and a neat transition from hinduism to other faiths.

As for Who wrote the so-called SG brother?

In the words of rakesh f to you my friend, f to you...

And it's been known ramgarhia misl was mostly other tribes. Jassa Singh was Sandhu. Doesn't matter, most sikhs period are other tribes..

Mr Singh you are a reformed vegetarian, anti dasam bani, anti shastaar, Catholic kind of guy by the sounds of it.

[GtLoc]

We aren't all peasants either, subscribing to an ideology that takes Sikh society into rural backwardness.

Sikh social order IS based on ideas of a classless society.

Peasent meaning common folk, no mughal emperor took amrit..

Edited February 28, 2014 by GtLoc

[dalsingh101]

Peasent meaning common folk, no mughal emperor took amrit..

Nah, I mean peasant as in ignorant, small minded pendu with a myopic perspective.

Being common doesn't automatically equate to being ignorant.

[G.Kaur]

Jonny101, it has already happened. A lot of Ravidasias around the world including in the UK (!) have converted to Christianity and Buddhism. And why is that? It's not because they suddenly after 20-30-40 years of being Sikhs suddenly found the light in Jesus Christ and Christianity, but because our so-called Sikhs including the Amritdharis have been looking down on them, calling them low caste, chamar, saying they clean toilets, don't want to marry them etc. No wonder why they have created their own religion, their own holy book, own temples etc. And look how many they are.

The other problem is the way apne log look at Ravidasia and it's the exact same way Hitler told the people about jews, that jews have long noses, they are greedy, they are like this and that. How many of us haven't heard "chamar idha de hunde..", if you wear a bright colour suit people will say "you look like a chamar", is someone is eating too much people will say he's a chamar because he's greedy and eating too much. Read about Ambedkar and why he didn't convert to Sikhi.

Like DalSingh said earlier I'm also very surprised of reading posts here like there's nothing wrong with being proud of your background, goat etc. One thing is that a lot of our parents aren't educated, they don't know better they are teaching us what they were taught. But people who grew up outside Punjab, studied here and learned about Sikhi and are still into caste, that is shocking to me.

Singh123456777, there is something wrong with calling yourself x caste or y caste. First of all how on earth can people refer to themselves as something their forefathers did hundreds of years ago?! It doesn't make sense to me at all. If my great grandfather was a carpenter and today I'm a nurse, how the hell can I call myself a carpenter?!!

I don't understand why people refer to themselves as this and that when they don't even do that for a living.

There's a caste bimari here in the UK and I don't think we'll ever get rid of it.

Even though you'll meet many people saying we don't believe in caste, everyone is equal. When it comes to marriage odo sareyaan nu yaad aunda and then sudenly they only wanna marry into a specific caste and forget about Rehat, Sikhi and what Guru Gobind Singh Jee said.

[Guest]

Caste discrimination mindset has also taken new identity- cultish jatha/samparda/segragated ghetto group mentality. They are both cousins of each other.

[G.Kaur]

People are always coming up with excuses like "oh if we don't use our goat as our last name there would be thousands of Gurpreet Singhs and Manjeet Kaurs". That's not an excuse because the fact is that our lastnames refer to our caste, even if we started using our pinds as lastnames it would still refer to the caste (or people would know which caste you are) because all pinds in Punjab are based on caste.

That means you have a pind with 95% of people from x caste, then there are 1-2% from y caste and 2-3% from z caste. That's how it is in Punjab and that's a fact.

If I used my dad's or mom's goat as lastname people would immediately know which background I'm from. But because i don't believe in any of the caste bakwaas I've had Kaur as my lastname since my birth and will have it till I die. Even though I got married I still didn't change my name to my husband's goat (he only uses Singh as well, but I could have chosen to have his goat after Kaur).

If our lastnames were like Anderson, Pullinger, Taylor which doesn't refer to your caste I wouldn't have a problem with it but since our lastnames do it is wrong.

Having Kaur and Singh as your lastname makes you 'anonymous' and not a part of any caste whatsoever.

[dalsingh101]

There's a caste bimari here in the UK and I don't think we'll ever get rid of it.

Even though you'll meet many people saying we don't believe in caste, everyone is equal. When it comes to marriage odo sareyaan nu yaad aunda and then sudenly they only wanna marry into a specific caste and forget about Rehat, Sikhi and what Guru Gobind Singh Jee said.

I think it's teetering myself.

Most marriages of the 20 something generation I've seen in my family have been cross caste.

Penduness in Panjab might take longer, but in the diaspora caste will die a sudden and quick death and the process is already happening. The people who persist in it will be the equivalent of hillbillies amongst apnay, and looked upon curiously.

[BhagatSingh]

can a classless society ever exist? Has one ever existed anywhere?

Chatanga the answer is No and No.

Whether one likes it or not. Class/caste is never going away. Striving to achieve one, by intermarrying or by removing caste names from your names, isn't going to put a single dent into the system. It is a useless endeavor. In the end all you will have are tribal peoples who are ignorant of their history. The problem is not in the name or having families of certain tribal compositions, the problem is much closer to home. Closer than that... even closer still. It is us.

The same intelligence that makes us who we are, that same intelligence that says that tribal identity is undesirable and so on is the one that is tribal itself. The intelligence by virtue of being intelligent is lost in ignorance. Haha!

What is a tribe but a differentiated group of humans, each with their own distinct marks. And what causes that discrimination of one thing from another? Our intelligence. And what is the most fundamental distinction our intelligence makes? The most fundamental distinction we make, that is also the source of tribal identity, is the distinction between subject and object.

It's like one of those movies, where our hero also happens to be the villain. What can the hero do to stop the villain? How can the hero beat the villain when he is the villain?

This will sound pessimistic... The hero cannot and should not do anything. If he does, then he will be the villain. By virtue of his heroic action, he is the villain. So he has to give up the fight, and take no action. He has to give up that intelligence, give up differentiating, the making of distinctions, between subject and object. For if there is even one distinction, then he will again set himself up as the villain.

I know all that sounds confusing but in order to stop discrimination between tribes, the members need to learn to stop discrimination. And to do this the members need to stop discriminating between subject and object, which is the most fundamental discrimination.

[JungChamkaur]

Tribes dont and should not denote SOCIAL FUNCTION... SIMPLE. That doesnt mean that you reject it all together. We might as well let Gills marry Gills.... Sikhi does not say destroy your Gotra... it just says that a Gotra should not determine social function. If you destroy tribal history you destroy yourself. Having names that are meaningless like white people is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life. We should be proud of our tribal identity. However, it should not tell us what our social function is. Even in the Gita, KrishanJi Maharaj explicitly says caste isnt based on birth but social function and the whole point of the Mahabharat is to elucidate the battle between good(worthy and deserving righteous king) and evil (hereditary king - kaam krodh lobh, moh and hankaar). Even our Guru Sahibaan did not give GurGaddi based on birth. They didnt marry their tribes either. Thats incest in India. Stop mistaking tribal identity for social function. The white last names used to have meanings and origins as well... the capitalist elite destroyed their own history... now no one knows who they are. Tribes tell us who we are and usually most tribes have had different people in them performing different social functions. Hereditary social function is the problem, not the tribal identity. Once we lose our tribal heritage, we will lose everything. We will end up like white people. In better days, all Gills or Sandhus would treat all other Gill girls as their sisters and daughters and were like family. Guru Sahib made all of us family, but not at the cost of destroying Gotra relations. However, today we see barely any emotion towards fellow tribe members. Any community that has lost its tribal heritage falls prey to degradation. Look at blacks in USA, Natives, White people in general. They all lost their tribal history and you see Natives trying hard to save their heritage. Satyug principles dictate that tribes should not denote social function and thats what the Gurus brought back into Kalyug. We might as well let Gills marry Gills then, which I think is absolutely filthy and disgusting.

[GtLoc]

People are always coming up with excuses like "oh if we don't use our goat as our last name there would be thousands of Gurpreet Singhs and Manjeet Kaurs". That's not an excuse because the fact is that our lastnames refer to our caste, even if we started using our pinds as lastnames it would still refer to the caste (or people would know which caste you are) because all pinds in Punjab are based on caste.

That means you have a pind with 95% of people from x caste, then there are 1-2% from y caste and 2-3% from z caste. That's how it is in Punjab and that's a fact.

If I used my dad's or mom's goat as lastname people would immediately know which background I'm from. But because i don't believe in any of the caste bakwaas I've had Kaur as my lastname since my birth and will have it till I die. Even though I got married I still didn't change my name to my husband's goat (he only uses Singh as well, but I could have chosen to have his goat after Kaur).

If our lastnames were like Anderson, Pullinger, Taylor which doesn't refer to your caste I wouldn't have a problem with it but since our lastnames do it is wrong.

Having Kaur and Singh as your lastname makes you 'anonymous' and not a part of any caste whatsoever.

Except, smart girl even misl sardars used pind or gotra. Shaheed Baba Charat Singh Sukkerchak of Sandhu Parvaar.

Meaning the panth more important than his quom or family.

You want to erase evidence of discrimination, while allowing it to exist. Different, from fighting it.

It's a common liberal ideology, which covers the majority but leaves a minority free to do w.e

In this case, yes many westernized 'sikhs' will be classless. Majority will not, and another thing?

The majority ones who use pind name, gotra, or nick name are the ones who lead the armies.

The fact that you want anderson, says enough.

http://www.christianitytoday.com

[GtLoc]

I think it's teetering myself.

Most marriages of the 20 something generation I've seen in my family have been cross caste.

Penduness in Panjab might take longer, but in the diaspora caste will die a sudden and quick death and the process is already happening. The people who persist in it will be the equivalent of hillbillies amongst apnay, and looked upon curiously.

Yeah, but aren't you from a tarkhan east African family? also this:

-- edit addition here: I said some ignorant stuff, past hour but the premise is not wrong. You quoted Prem Sumarag and it seems it supports the viewpoint I have instead of yours. Hope I do not get put bakc on que, it is late I will look through posts for overly inflammatory things (a little is always good )

--

Back to orginal post

--

At Bhagat singh username,

Or you know instead of being gianis just do what maharaj ordered. March forward with ear drums, you know the pro khalistan marches past November December didn't care who was what.

20 30 million people aren't going to be friends. Get over that, if vaheguru designed humans and we can't intimately know more than 100 something people, then leave it at that.

I like your insults dal singh, people will still listen to an idiot who appears strong than an intelligent giani. Intelligence has never won, wit has.

At Jung Chamkaur Yeah.. Gill is not gonna marry Gill. In fact, they'll be 8 gotras apart, sorry.

--

Humans are stratified, that is known. You support your brother over your friends, etc.

All the tribes unite under nishan sahib, it's a few know it all who do all this inter tribe mix up stuff.

They also happen to be mostly khatri, or ramgarhia.

O well, would rather have 2 independent sikhs hate each other and be separate; than, have burning tires running after them, 'uniting' them.

But hey, bachittar natak doesn't mean story of bravery right. Tribe isn't given by god, and the world isn't an illusion right.

We should care about who is breeding who, not who is hungry. Ok,

Keep hating on the pind though. Most Sikhs come from there, and if we had lived in cities mostly we would have been a lot weaker.

Edited March 1, 2014 by GtLoc

[mrsingh]

Mr Singh you are a reformed vegetarian,

... i used to eat beef and pork back in the day though I don't nowadays ... but yes I do believe that Khalsa Fauj in times of war or tribes without access to plentiful food sources are permitted to eat meat in such pressing circumstances. I gave up meat as I live in the West and could not justify the cruelty for my own taste buds (as i happen to love the taste of meat) given the plentiful array of alternate food and proteins sources we have in the Diaspora.

anti dasam bani

... i'm 100% pro-authentic Dasam Bani (i'll leave you and Sher to share a mutual appreciation of what I do not believe is worthy of association with Dasam Pithah)

, anti shastaar,

... i'm 100% pro-shastaar and fully believe all Sikhs should be tyaar bar tyaar ... been carrying since i was a kid at school

Catholic kind of guy by the sounds of it.

... errm i don't believe in miracles (as per their rejection in Gurmat by Guru Sahib) as you and the Catholics both do.

[SikhKhoj]

People are always coming up with excuses like "oh if we don't use our goat as our last name there would be thousands of Gurpreet Singhs and Manjeet Kaurs". That's not an excuse because the fact is that our lastnames refer to our caste, even if we started using our pinds as lastnames it would still refer to the caste (or people would know which caste you are) because all pinds in Punjab are based on caste.

That means you have a pind with 95% of people from x caste, then there are 1-2% from y caste and 2-3% from z caste. That's how it is in Punjab and that's a fact.

If I used my dad's or mom's goat as lastname people would immediately know which background I'm from. But because i don't believe in any of the caste bakwaas I've had Kaur as my lastname since my birth and will have it till I die. Even though I got married I still didn't change my name to my husband's goat (he only uses Singh as well, but I could have chosen to have his goat after Kaur).

If our lastnames were like Anderson, Pullinger, Taylor which doesn't refer to your caste I wouldn't have a problem with it but since our lastnames do it is wrong.

Having Kaur and Singh as your lastname makes you 'anonymous' and not a part of any caste whatsoever.

GKaur whats this? People like you will be ready to delete or 'edit' Banis which mention caste names. Looks like you got more knowledge than Bhatts who said Amar Das Bhalla in Gurbani and Bhagat Ravidas who said Ravidas Chamar

Ever heard of the confusion regarding Mani Singh? Because 4 Mani Singhs lived around the same time we can't differentiate history. Besides that even countries have banned using Singh as family name (Canada comes to mind) because it is bound to cause confusion.

If Gurus wanted to eradicate gotras they would've never mentioned it in Gurbani, especially referring to people by their gotra.

[chatanga1]

Having Kaur and Singh as your lastname makes you 'anonymous' and not a part of any caste whatsoever.

Singh itself is a reference to Rajputs or the warrior class.

Chatanga the answer is No and No.

Whether one likes it or not. Class/caste is never going away. Striving to achieve one, by intermarrying or by removing caste names from your names, isn't going to put a single dent into the system. It is a useless endeavor. In the end all you will have are tribal peoples who are ignorant of their history. The problem is not in the name or having families of certain tribal compositions, the problem is much closer to home. Closer than that... even closer still. It is us.

Thanks, because I dont feel that one can exist myself. The crux of this caste thing as per gurbani, is that no-one acheived anything in this or the next world by being of a particular caste.

Sikhs need to accept this Gurbani by accepting that all castes are equal before Waheguru and the Guru. Simple. We don't need to become one just to accept each as one.

as for someone writing earlier, Mata Gujri was a gujjar women, it amazes me so much that people are prepared to stoop to this low level of thinking to try and prove a point. they dont see the hypocrisy, of calling someone by their caste-name.

Please whoever wrote it, dont write such silly things again. Please.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Jonny101, it has already happened. A lot of Ravidasias around the world including in the UK (!) have converted to Christianity and Buddhism. And why is that? It's not because they suddenly after 20-30-40 years of being Sikhs suddenly found the light in Jesus Christ and Christianity, but because our so-called Sikhs including the Amritdharis have been looking down on them, calling them low caste, chamar, saying they clean toilets, don't want to marry them etc. No wonder why they have created their own religion, their own holy book, own temples etc. And look how many they are.

The other problem is the way apne log look at Ravidasia and it's the exact same way Hitler told the people about jews, that jews have long noses, they are greedy, they are like this and that. How many of us haven't heard "chamar idha de hunde..", if you wear a bright colour suit people will say "you look like a chamar", is someone is eating too much people will say he's a chamar because he's greedy and eating too much. Read about Ambedkar and why he didn't convert to Sikhi.

Like DalSingh said earlier I'm also very surprised of reading posts here like there's nothing wrong with being proud of your background, goat etc. One thing is that a lot of our parents aren't educated, they don't know better they are teaching us what they were taught. But people who grew up outside Punjab, studied here and learned about Sikhi and are still into caste, that is shocking to me.

Singh123456777, there is something wrong with calling yourself x caste or y caste. First of all how on earth can people refer to themselves as something their forefathers did hundreds of years ago?! It doesn't make sense to me at all. If my great grandfather was a carpenter and today I'm a nurse, how the hell can I call myself a carpenter?!!

I don't understand why people refer to themselves as this and that when they don't even do that for a living.

There's a caste bimari here in the UK and I don't think we'll ever get rid of it.

Even though you'll meet many people saying we don't believe in caste, everyone is equal. When it comes to marriage odo sareyaan nu yaad aunda and then sudenly they only wanna marry into a specific caste and forget about Rehat, Sikhi and what Guru Gobind Singh Jee said.

I am proud of my goat. Feed it everyday as well.

[dalsingh101]

I like your insults dal singh, people will still listen to an idiot who appears strong than an intelligent giani. Intelligence has never won, wit has.

Lat week you put up a picture of yourself looking like a Patiala pagh wearing momma's boy. This week your rocking your hardman kharkoo Jat look.....

I mean look. You're sitting in Canada, Toronto (unless I'm mistaken), which is possibly the softest place on the earth and you're giving big talk like some soldier over the Internet about K'stan, years after the movement petered out and when you don't have to risk shite.

Are you serious dude?

Had I not seen your image, I would have thought you was a twelve year old.

In any case, I'd say the truth of society is that the strong rule the weak, and the intelligent rule the strong. That's why the current 'King of the Jats and Panjab' is a out of shape, ugly sod named Badal - not some masculine tough guy.

But carry on, keep having your wet dreams about some Saka-farming masterland.

PS - Plus people are missing my point. Intermixing is happening and will happen regardless of our feelings towards it. I don't think that this is going to slow down in a globalised world, regardless of our feelings towards it.

A casteist might prevent his diaporic daughter or son marrying someone of their choice but who really expects that to last more than another generation or two?

Change is a coming. Regardless of our feelings towards it. But it is true that the community is changing faster at certain places over others. Like I'd say the UK community appears to be intermixing (castewise and with other communities) more than the Canadian. Sometimes I get a feeling that Sikhs may be marrying out more in the south of England than the north as well? But maybe I'm wrong in my conception? What do people think?

Edited March 1, 2014 by dalsingh101

[BhagatSingh]

I am proud of my goat. Feed it everyday as well.

Jatts don't use enough goat in their songs.

[GtLoc]

Go see that, and all you saying maharaj practiced this or that see what actually went on.

So yes, a man married out of tribe a woman didn't. However any sikh would obviously not refuse any of the gurus or vice versa.

Was wrong there,

As for Toronto and mama boy. I been in a few years, and my 4 year probation bs ends this may.

Brampton may be soft, Toronto no. Just because over here the sullay and kalay are scared of us, it doesn't make anyone soft.

A lion doesn't change species by crossing the sea, only loses caste if he a hindu.

There is mixing because people don't know. It's the opposite here, whereas a decade ago you started seeing some mixing now it's full opposite.

Canada is soft right? Where did Babbar Khalsa start. Check mate, peace. Go read that Prem Sumarag the author envisioned something, ok many others don't. They are all equals, don't worry about the authors opinion.

I'm surprised you would use it only to have someone on the forum post something which refutes everything. Be proud of who you are, as in don't be ashamed.

Don't put a fake name, because the sandhus are still sitting there.

The panth isn't going to adopt a monogamous inter mixed posture it was tried from the 80s and failed.

Lot of Singhs wrote muslim on papers to marry more than once. Heretics came before, O well.

As for Mr. Singh so you can decide over pita ji what is authentic. Ok,...

Lost cause.

Edit it's true though, the amli jatts singing about alcohol don't add goat.

Dal Singh you're not good at insults I'm in the Rex. The year I was born, the two warring sides dropped 13 bodies in one summer.

The warring complexes had less than 12,000 people. I have 2 straps and a vest next to my bed side.

Go troll someone who cares, about momma boy. Aren't you like five foot 0? And what hard kharkoo look, my mom's friend's husband helped me the that.

I can't tie that sh**t lol.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ | |

Edited March 2, 2014 by GtLoc

[JungChamkaur]

Word makes sense now. No wonder none of your posts make any sense. Definitely seems like your 12 years old. And about your rexdale bullshit... please... your a loser obviously. You and all other desis in Canada who think their hard are nothing... Babbar Khalsa is way above the low street level gunday your tlaking about. Dropping bodies is nothing. Its about who you drop. Bindy Johal isnt going to become Satwant Singh... Kuch sharam kar, fukra jayha. Your druggie friends who are killing each other are losers. Their pawns. Santji and Shaheeds from the 80s are Kings, Bishops and Rooks... realize your place pawn boy. Your so embarrassing.. I am ashamed of you. Your here on this website and were all worried about our girls becoming whores and sons becoming amli phudus and your here praising the lallu mafia who is playing in role in bringing this about? Sharam Kar! "Im in the rex".... the rex is nothing. Were from Punjab.. the dharti where soormay kill drug dealers and rapists, where soormay fight and die for the respect of women and save the gow and gareeb. Bada aiya fukra jatt amliyaan da yaar.

Edited March 2, 2014 by JungChamkaur

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Jatts don't use enough goat in their songs.

Bakra bolan lage ta biliya paj jandia.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

My Bakra.