Indian Fascism Article

[SAadmin]

http://sikhfreedom.com/fascism.html

Both parties please discuss..!!

Keep it clean, please follow forum rules..!!

[aksantali]

Yes mod's edit you are correct the aricle is full of bs anything that you write is 100% true everyone else is bs.

HIndustan zindaabad

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Yes mod's edit you are correct the aricle is full of bs anything that you write is 100% true everyone else is bs.

HIndustan zindaabad

The Khalistan Brigade UNITE!!!!

[Amandeep Hindustani]

Yes mod's edit you are correct the aricle is full of bs anything that you write is 100% true everyone else is bs.

HIndustan zindaabad

Yes, the article is full of b.s - Every major country in the world labels the khalistanis as fascists. Hell, you're being thrown out of your own gurudwaras.

And its ironic that the author wants to talk about democracy but wants to set up a theoratic state called khalistan.

The prevelance of the caste system in indian society does not disqualify india from being a democracy as much the prevelance of class system, racism disqualify the west from being a democracy.

[DSG]

It is the same caste system that is being advocated and supported by the current Indian government using the methods of reservation systems. According to this system, the so-called low castes have reserved seats in educational institutions and government grants available only to them. Everyone including the Sikhs who do not adhere to the caste system is required to report their caste name in order to determine whether they qualify for reserved seats or not.

I recently been to india and have had dialogue with the young who are seeking government jobs. I visited the local villages where there main priority is paying bills and putting food on the table for their families

A qualified Civil Engineer , applying for a government job has to

1. pay 3000 rupees to apply for an application and then be selected to sit a test . In some instances 2 years have passed , money has been paid but no information passed to the applicant re his application

2. Rather than basing the applicant on their merits , its based on the caste system for example if i am from a lower caste and person B is from a higher caste, we both sit the same test and i get 95% and person B gets 50% , they will take on person B simply because he is from a lower caste, ( When i heard this , it was shocking .......... no equality at all )

3. In one case 3 lakh people applied for government jobs , they took the fee of 3000 rupees from each applicant on the day , it was grid locked , majority could not attend the interview on time , the officials rather than re-scheduling they said tough lluck , the applicants should have come a day earlier and lost their application and money ..( again i was shocked and angered )..

Theres nothing their for the youngsters , on rubbish heaps , open land "Bhang" is naturally ( thats what the locals say) growing . When they have local events / mellas , Bhang wala pakora , drinks are openly served .

In the pends locals are fighting as to who would take ownership of the gurudawara as money generated will be put in their own pockets ..( its so sad) ..

[aksantali]

Yes, the article is full of b.s - Every major country in the world labels the khalistanis as fascists. Hell, you're being thrown out of your own gurudwaras.

And its ironic that the author wants to talk about democracy but wants to set up a theoratic state called khalistan.

The prevelance of the caste system in indian society does not disqualify india from being a democracy as much the prevelance of class system, racism disqualify the west from being a democracy.

Says who some dweeb on an internet forum?LOL

Also your that same dude that was pretending to be a Sikh on sikhsangat and later got exposed and left hahaha

[Amandeep Hindustani]

Says who some dweeb on an internet forum?LOL

Also your that same dude that was pretending to be a Sikh on sikhsangat and later got exposed and left hahaha

Never claimed to be sikh my internet khalistani friend.

But I believe your the same guy that holds "meetings" in your basement with other 16 year olds to decide the future of the panth.

BTW, I like your avatar picture but I believe that gentlemen was popped.

[aksantali]

Aw did I hit a nerve kiddo? Disrespecting a shaheed keep it up shows your hatred towards sikhi. Don't understand your comment about holding meetings in basements care to explain?

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Aw did I hit a nerve kiddo? Disrespecting a shaheed keep it up shows your hatred towards sikhi. Don't understand your comment about holding meetings in basements care to explain?

He wants to meet you in a basement.

[SAadmin]

Aksantali, your response to sher should be biography of person you have in avatar so you can educate others, some of silly sikhs thinks they are soo entitled and so self absorbed, that they expect outsider and everyone to know about them.

Our incompotent gurdwara's leaders does the same, they have all these singhs pictures with machine guns, bloody pictures at langar hall with no description whatsoever, off course western media and foreigners will be offended and would be taken out of context, and they whine about bad press because of their own incompetence, and negligence. Most of current sikh inter issues are self inflicted without any influence from outside.

This occured to me, about 5 years ago, i was told with other singhs to give 30 gorreh's tour to gurdwara in brampton, here we are at langar hall, i m trying to explain concept of langar- guru amar das ji making langar, all they can see all around langar hall is picture of singhs with ak47 with no description, to made me look stupid, whole discussion of langar went irrelevant as they were shaking their head, nervous and frightneded, these poor 30 gorrehs were mix of senior people and from other interfaith group have no idea, i had to downplay this whole picture fiasco kind of sway them into sikh library while our pot belly leaders have cha with their own lot and give them weird looks..!!

Unbelievable..!!

[DSG]

tat's exactly right. More and more gurdwaras have life-size portraits of people whom 'others' (people other than ultra radical Sikhs) see as plain terrorists. langar and lahoo does not mix. there are particular gurdwaras where I have stopped attending for this specific reason - Rajoana and others pix with automatic weapons. on one hand you denounce Wisconsin and on the other you eulogise those who carried out wisconsin (or much worse) like massacres themselves.

A true gursikh WILL NOT use any weaponary unless there life is being threatened as history tells us a try gursikh will defend the righteousness of the whole of humanity.

[SAadmin]

A true gursikh WILL NOT use any weaponary unless there life is being threatened as history tells us a try gursikh will defend the righteousness of the whole of humanity.

And bro, how do you assume - non sikhs guest/foreigners know that who come to gurdwara? and besides automatic merit (label as gursikh) should not be given to anyone who has dhara and bana.

Rehit pyari mujkho sikh pyare nahi (Sri guru gobind singh ji)

[SAadmin]

I support stopping beant singh (war criminal) but not support collataral damage 17 bystanders.

[DSG]

And bro, how do you assume - non sikhs guest/foreigners know that who come to gurdwara? and besides automatic merit (label as gursikh) should not be given to anyone who has dhara and bana.

Rehit pyari mujkho sikh pyare nahi (Sri guru gobind singh ji)

I may be wrong here but my thoughts are as follows , no common tom,dick and harry ... indian version tirlochan,darshan and hardial will go to the gurudawara because they want to , it is by gurus kirpa one goes. The people that go have a feeling of wahegurus presence , have that "darr" that whaeguru is their watching over them , hence go ti the Gurudawara to get that shannti.

I agree no one knows the true characterisitcs of a person only waheguru does , plus we dont know what goes on behind doors , but a true gur sikh wiill be same in and out of doors .

for the non-sikhs/sikhs alike not knowing about sikhi its our duty to explain ( Basics of Sikhi are doing a fantastic job) and the ones who they educate when doing street parchar ( i think) have that inner feeling of existence of a supreme being and will be willing to learn , the others will not be interested at all and to be honest probably will not even visit a place of worship . For non/sikhs visiting the gurudawara we should hold guided tours , show them sach kand, langar hall , sikhs belief , identity , morals ..( you you have been doing veer ji )

India is the worst for this , after recent visit ( feb) , Hari mandar sahib they are spoiling , putting marble all over the place outside of the darbar sahib they have bought all the land , and putting marble every where. ( Why did they not have a landscape garden a bit of greenary , i have no idea... who makes these decisions) , and i met some Irish people , they hired there own tour guide from the internet when they visited hari mandar sahib , why they dont have their own and have regular tours for all that visit ... i have no idea) This i beliieve will educate the people from all walks of life as many come to see the architecture of hari mandar sahib.

[DSG]

Rajoana's life was under threat when he killed Beant Singh AND 17 BYSTANDERS in 1995 (when the bloodbath in Punjab had stopped)?

I agree innocent lives should not be taken at all .

I have a question for you , if government is not helping , local police are not helping , atrocities/killings against a minority group are increasing . How would you stop that ?

[SAadmin]

Stop to the topic guys, as previously mentioned most threads from now on will be strictly moderated -sticking to topic will be enforced.

[Amandeep Hindustani]

I agree innocent lives should not be taken at all .

I have a question for you , if government is not helping , local police are not helping , atrocities/killings against a minority group are increasing . How would you stop that ?

Slippery slope argument. I bet if you took the view of the security forces, government, police they would say the same thing. And it would look something like this"

|I have a question for you. If the sikh leadership is not helping, local gurudwaras are not helping, atrocities against moderate sikhs, hindus, sects, migrants are increasing. How would you stop that?

Once you start the spiral of violence then anything can happen, and usually does.

[Amandeep Hindustani]

Ah..those pesky bamans are at it again. 5 indians nominated for title of "the worlds most important thinker" and all are bamans. damn this little 3 percent community...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/5-Indians-in-the-running-for-top-world-thinkers/articleshow/32809998.cms

LONDON: Five Indians — of which four are economists — are in the running for the title of "the world's most important thinker 2014" as part of an annual global poll taking place for the past 10 years.

The Prospect magazine has been inviting the public to vote on its list of influential thinkers since 2004 when it drew up a list of the top 100 British public intellectuals. In 2005, they extended the search to the rest of the globe and readers voted online.

The 2014 list has four Indian economists — Amartya Sen, Kaushik Basu, Partha Dasgupta and Raghuram Rajan. The only other entry from India is writer and Booker prize winner Arundhati Roy.

Last year's winner, the author of 'The God Delusion' — Richard Dawkings has failed to make it on to the magazine's 2014 list.

The other heavyweights in contention are Pope Francis — the only religious leader to make it to the annual list — American philosopher Thomas Nagel, responsible for some of the most important contributions to the philosophy of mind in the 21st century and international lawyer and political scientist Anne-Marie Slaughter who is former director of policy planning at the US state department and former professor of politics and international affairs at Princeton University.

The list also includes South African businessman Elon Musk — co-founder of the online payments service PayPal and now heads two companies: Space X, which from 2015 will be running flights to and from the International Space Station under a $1.6bn contract from Nasa, and Tesla Motors, which is developing affordable electric cars. Myanmar historian Thant Myint-U, now a member of Myanmar's National Economic and Social Advisory Council is also in the running for the award. He one of the president's special advisors on the peace process.

[DSG]

Slippery slope argument. I bet if you took the view of the security forces, government, police they would say the same thing. And it would look something like this"

|I have a question for you. If the sikh leadership is not helping, local gurudwaras are not helping, atrocities against moderate sikhs, hindus, sects, migrants are increasing. How would you stop that?

Once you start the spiral of violence then anything can happen, and usually does.

It may be a slippery slope argument , the question is simple

if you are not getting justice from anywhere , what do you do ?

Sher , its a simple question ?

[DSG]

Ok take a look at 1984

Block 11 in delhi where sikhs resided , some had gun licenses but fought back the mobs , the Police took away their weapons telling them that they were there to protect them , and once they did , the mobs cam back and they were masaccred ,,, similar thing hapened in block 32 in delhi where majority of sikhs lived , the sikhs all gathered in the local gurudawara arming themselves with what ever weapons they could find ( sticks, kirpans etc..) and pushed back the mob .. the police intervened and told them to go back to their homes , that the Police would proptect them , they were forcibly sent back to their homes , what happened next over 400 sikgs were masaccred , bodies limbs etc.. lying in the streets.. ( This is from H S Phoolkas book When a tree shook delhi)

Now the law and order suppose to protect the Sikhs , rather it was the opposite

The question is , what would you do ?

[das]

To Neo: It was mentioned that the creation of this thread won't lead anywhere and nothing would be gained expect "Everyone sticking to their arguments". Now see what's going on.

To Sher: To quote gandhi "Eye for an eye would make the whole world blind. Powerful logic...." does NOT make any sense. Could you please answer the following question, and please do NOT post counter question, be fair......and before answering the question, forget that you are Hindu or Nanak follower and I'm a Sikh etc.; both of us let's remove the colored glasses that we use to see the world.

• Have you ever seen a real incident during 1984 where normal people like us (you and me) were tied to police jeeps one leg to one jeep and another leg to another jeep; and then guess what both the jeeps moved in opposite direction until the person is torn in 2 pieces. There was almost NO young boys in the villages during those times because whosoever is present was either killed by police or the khalistanis would would kind of force them to join them). Should such incidents be tolerated with gandhi's logic?
• Have you ever seen a girls/women being insulated in front of their fathers/sons/husbands during those times?
• What would have been the fate of India when Mughals were converting everyone forcefully to their religion and we (normal people) followed the gandhi's logic?

Now, at the same time, the route chosen by some persons to revenge the killing of innocents persons by killing other innocent person does NOT make any sense either. One should ONLY raise against the oppressor and should NOT involve other innocent lives.

I personally believe the original starters of wave of opposing oppressors were genuine but immediately they were highjacked by emotionals and other katarpanthis which lead to the bitter end.

I personally do NOT favor neither hardcore khalistanis (who just spread hatred towards fellow religions) nor hardcore deniers (who blaim everything was the fault of the persons raising against the oppressors).

das

Edited March 28, 2014 by das

[DSG]

Now my question to you is: what you would expect me to do in such a scenario?

The question is for you to answer not me to answer for you ?

If theres no justice what does one do ?

If you dont want to answer thats fine ... ( end of move on ) .......

DAS

its good to discuss , rather than ignore hopefully aim is to make awareness , theres always going to be for and against arguments but if we can put a message across , make awareness i think its better than nothing

[das]

"the original starters of wave of opposing oppressors were genuine" that is debatable and depends whether you have your coloured glasses on or not.

Anyone who does NOT have colored glasses would agree that the original starters (persons who took arms AFTER 84 riots) were right when their intention was to put resistance to oppressors; keeping in mind that police and justice system were against them. It's a different story when they got wrong when innocent lives were involved and some other fake joined them. I fail to understand why would someone NOT agree with this; e.g if someone insults (our: your or mine) sisters or mothers, would we offer another sister for sacrifice or put resistance??

I think it is NOT possible for anyone to answer this question unless one's family is involved in those times. Bhaji, jis ke upar guzarte ha, vohe janta ha.

I am for open,robust debate to fix the responsibilities on both sides even though almost all of the major players are gone. We need a closure, it cannot be allowed to go on like this.

I agree that as all the major players (physical ones) are gone, and therefore it needs closure.

Sher, in general, allow me to suggest you something. You are filled with Raw Energy, Zeal, and Will-Power to pursue a topic/situation at hand, but unfortunately you are wasting it on causes which neither helps you nor anyone. So, I would request you to pursue things which would lead to peace of mind for you as well as others. e.g if you have Lamborghini with full tank and you just keep on pressing the gas-pedal at one place without ever moving the car, then eventually you will run out of gas/fuel and then the purpose of car would be NIL as what would be the use of a car which cannot start (after the exhaustion of fuel).

So, if you love to read, then do NOT go with so-called history about the material world only which is bound to be distorted (for either parties) and it would help you to reach the aim of life.

If you love to read foreign authors, local authors, author related to specific religion, then I could suggest you some authors (except for so-called history).

At the same time, I also agree that everyone SHOULD read History but do NOT go over the edge by starting quarrelling with each other.

Peace

[Amandeep Hindustani]

I think the answer you want me to give is that "if there is no justice" one should take up arms and get the 'justice' one would like or at least take revenge. The taking up of arms is fine (I am no Gandhi follower but even he supported such an option). That's what our scriptures have been recommending too.

Chu kar az hama heelt e dar guzshat, Halal ast burdan ba shamsheer dast. "All modes of redressing the wrong having failed, raising of sword is pious and just."

Even Sri Krishna gave similar msg to Arjun in the battlefield of Kurukshetra as narrated by the Mahabharata poet 1000s (?) of years ago. Whole geeta is dedicated to a similar msg.

Anyone (or any community) is fully justify in taking up the arms when they have been pushed to the wall but (now this is a major qualifier) without hurting non-combatants. as you also said in some other way, without seeking justice by killing those who may have absolutely no idea what injustice (if any) has happened.

As i have said before somewhere, I UNDERSTAND (not condoning though) Sukha, Jinda, Beant singh, satwant..They did not hurt the man on the street to deliver their version of 'justice'. they did not blow up trains or forced their diktat on the whole populace or to use them as disgusting pawn to score petty points with Dilli. they did not threaten to kill 5,000 of minority population for absolutely no crime but their assumed faith or raped the minor girls of their own community.

the fight should be for "pious and just" and this is where (my opinion) Sikh radicals went horribly wrong.

My problem is with JSB, Talwinder Parmar, Rajoana, Bagri, Ripudaman Malik, Inderjit reyat and 1000s of their clones who continue to live in our middle with similar repugnant agendas and similar twisted ideologies.

The khalsa should lead a new battle to rid sikhi of such psychopaths who glorify 'injustice'.

I hope i have answered comprehensively but if any aspect unanswered, i would address that too.

as they say, bhul chukk di khima dena as i am, at the end of the day, still learning. still learning to be a good human being before anything else.

(Zada te nahin ho gaya?)

Shri Krishna, Shri Ram, Shri Guru Gobind Singhji Maharaj did it on the battlefield. Man to Man. A Chinese visitor to India nearly 2000 years ago talks of opposing groups or armies fighting on the battlefield but the farmer nearby continues to till the land without fear.

Bomb blasts, assassinations, extortion, threats, random killings are NOT what Guru Gobind Singhji or Shri Krishna had in mind when they spoke those words.

[das]

To Sher:

ok bhaji continue wasting your time, I'm simply not interested in wasting mine time and energy, have already put my thoughts. Writing responses to such topics take lot of time and energy. So, at last for your "compulsive reader mind" here are some short quotes to ponder upon:

The following quotes do NOT belong to current topic, but I've added these just for both parties pleasure;

History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren't there.
- George Santayana

A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots.
- Marcus Garvey

Do not be misled by what you see around you, or be influenced by what you see. You live in a world which is a playground of illusion, full of false paths, false values and false ideals. But you are not part of that world.
- Sai Baba

Fear not for the future, weep not for the past.
- Percy Bysshe Shelley

He was what I often think is a dangerous thing for a statesman to be - a student of history; and like most of those who study history, he learned from the mistakes of the past how to make new ones.
- A. J. P. Taylor

Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.
- Buddha

The distinction between the past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.
- Albert Einstein

Prejudice is a burden that confuses the past, threatens the future and renders the present inaccessible.
- Maya Angelou

We are made wise not by the recollection of our past, but by the responsibility for our future.
- George Bernard Shaw

If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?
- William Shakespeare

Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.
- Buddha

It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.
- Buddha