paapiman Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Please know, that I am just trying to get you to read Gurbani for yourself and study it and the deeper meaning, instead of just parroting what someone else told you and taking single tuks to suit your needs. People need to stop using their mind (Manmat) and adopt Gurmat (the mat of Gurmukh Brahamgyanis). I am not interested in following my dumb and rotten mind. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koi Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 It is from Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. There have been other quotes provided in this topic too. Did you read them? The below verse, was posted by another member. This should clarify your doubts in this matter. ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੭॥੯॥ Gur Naanak Naanak Har Soe ||4||7||9|| गुरु नानकु नानकु हरि सोइ ॥४॥७॥९॥Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself. ||4||7||9|| 36795 ਗੋਂਡ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੮੬੪ ਪੰ. ੧੯ Raag Gond Guru Arjan Dev Peace Can't be any clearer than that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Can't be any clearer than that You are right, bro. It is so surprising that such a simple concept, can be made to look like a very complicated one. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 People need to stop using their mind (Manmat) and adopt Gurmat (the mat of Gurmukh Brahamgyanis). I am not interested in following my dumb and rotten mind. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Well then, I guess for you Gurbani has no practical use... Gurbani is there for US to READ OURSELVES and contemplate. Not just listen to others. YOUR journey is about YOU and not Brahamgyanis who came before you. Take two students... teach student one to only memorize something and sure they can pass the test in school by parroting back the answers. But in real life when they need to apply those skills, they will fall flat on their face as they did not UNDERSTAND what they memorized. Take the second student and actually have them apply that skill so that they UNDERSTAND what they are reading. That second student will succeed in life. Same with Gurbani, you can parrot back and memorize what someone else told you was the meaning. But until you read it for yourself and truly contemplate the deeper spiritual meaning within it, you will never truly UNDERSTAND the meaning. Gurbani is meant to be read and contemplated by each and every one of us! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Sister just stop... In Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sri dasam Granth sahib, and Sri sarbloh Granth sahib it writes guru nanak dev Ji is akaal purkh... Why is this so hard to wrap around? It's not like there is one tuk of saying the the guru is god but many tuks... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 There are two different things... One is god and one is becoming like god... Us the humans have to make the aatma/soul to become like god and realize our true selves by doing bhagti but god is completely different... The guru is god coming to this earth as the form of the guru... This is pure pure god without any vikaars and without an bad things... The gurus were infallible from birth... Can we say that of ourselves? Me and you make mistakes every other second. We are not pure but god is... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 There are two different things... One is god and one is becoming like god... Us the humans have to make the aatma/soul to become like god and realize our true selves by doing bhagti but god is completely different... The guru is god coming to this earth as the form of the guru... This is pure pure god without any vikaars and without an bad things... The gurus were infallible from birth... Can we say that of ourselves? Me and you make mistakes every other second. We are not pure but god is... So you believe the Abrahamic model then... that Creation is not God. That Creation was made by God but is something separate from God. You should become Christian.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Sister just stop... In Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sri dasam Granth sahib, and Sri sarbloh Granth sahib it writes guru nanak dev Ji is akaal purkh... Why is this so hard to wrap around? It's not like there is one tuk of saying the the guru is god but many tuks... You didnt read what I was saying.... said that Guru = God and also EVERYTHING and EVRYONE = God. Because Gurbani says over and over that there is ONLY God in existence. There is NO other! N30 and posted a beautiful shabad on ang 736 that outright says ALL of us are really God! So I am not saying Gurus werent God. I am saying that they, and us, and everything are! You guys seem to have this serious Abrahamic view of creation... where you think creation and creator are separate things. But they arent! There is only the ONE! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 So you believe the Abrahamic model then... that Creation is not God. That Creation was made by God but is something separate from God. You should become Christian....Wow this is the fourth time this week my sikhi has been attacked and now from a gori??? I have been called a Christian this whole week by fellow Sikhs but I never thought a gori would say that... Let me restate it in a different way... We are god but we are not pure like god cause we still have vikaars... Vikaars can be destroyed only by Bhagti... Once vikaars are destroyed our soul/aatma merge with god and become one.. There is no difference between god and the soul then... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Secondly its only gods Kirpa if he wants our vikaars destroyed cause its his will... We have no free will... Christianity has a concept of free will... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Wow this is the fourth time this week my sikhi has been attacked and now from a gori??? I have been called a Christian this whole week by fellow Sikhs but I never thought a gori would say that... Let me restate it in a different way... We are god but we are not pure like god cause we still have vikaars... Vikaars can be destroyed only by Bhagti... Once vikaars are destroyed our soul/aatma merge with god and become one.. There is no difference between god and the soul then... okay thank you! I knew you couldn't have meant what you said... and the reason we are not pure is that we have forgotten our source... this Maya is so enticing that we have become so enammored by it (and our Ego identity) that is why we have forgotten who we are, and why we have lost our way and become trapped by the five evils. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I'm still waiting for an apology... PS:Im serious 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 On 4/28/2015 at 11:18 AM, Satkirin_Kaur said: So I am not saying Gurus werent God. I am saying that they, and us, and everything are! If you believe that Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj was God, then you would not have asked such questions: Quote If Guru Nanak Dev Ji IS incarnation of God can u please explain: 1. Why Mool Mantra says God does not take birth or death (formless) and that all forms occur within God? 2. Why did Guru Nanak Dev Ji disappear for three days at the river where he was said to be in 'presence of' that divine and had the revelation revealed to him about reality... Of Which he wrote down as Mool Mantra? 3. Why he would claim that he is but a servant of God? I thought Sikhi does not believe God takes direct incarnation / avatars.... That we believe in the One timeless formless Akal Purakh?? I think I posted the concept of Nirgun Sargun in another thread... But suffice to say that if ALL forms occur within the One then no one form could ever be the sum of that One. Unquote Edited by Satkirin_Kaur, 15 April 2015 - 04:45 AM. In the first post by truthseeker546, he asked the following question. Are there any clear proofs on the Gurus being God from SGGS? That question has been answered convincingly. He did not ask about humans. Also, Islam does not believe in incarnation of God. If you believe, Satguru jee is not an incarnation of God, you are following the Muslim ideology. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) Well then, I guess for you Gurbani has no practical use... Gurbani is there for US to READ OURSELVES and contemplate. Not just listen to others. YOUR journey is about YOU and not Brahamgyanis who came before you. We should read Gurbani, but learn the pronunciation and its meanings from Gurmukh scholars. After that, contemplation can begin. We should not use our own minds, to fabricate wrong meanings of Gurbani. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited April 28, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) We should read Gurbani, but learn the pronunciation and its meanings from Gurmukh scholars. After that, contemplation can begin. We should not use our own minds, to fabricate wrong meanings of Gurbani. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Funny coming from you when you put wrong meaning to one single tuk in Gurbani to justify wives viewing their husbands as God, when the full context was saying the opposite and instead referring to husband Lord and the actual context was to uplift women position and not to subordinate them. Instead you took a single tuk, and twisted the actual meaning to put women in a subordinate and lowly position to men. (and fought it tooth and nail on here). And yes I believe the Gurus were God. But my perception of reality is that ALL is ONE. Because of some actual experiences, this is now my understanding and not just belief. And since everything is ONE, of course the Gurus were God. But so are everyone, and so is everything. I also showed you the proof of this in Gurbani, and these are not 'my' interpretations. However Gurbani was not written in some code that we can not understand. It was meant to be read by every Sikh and contemplated. It was not meant to be like other religions where only the Priests etc can interpret and confir upon the masses the meaning. It was meant so that everyone could read it. Simply by reading the shabads and seeing the context, you will get the meaning. Edited April 28, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) Funny coming from you when you put wrong meaning to one single tuk in Gurbani to justify wives viewing their husbands as God, when the full context was saying the opposite and referring to husband Lord. That was the meaning given by the great Gurmukh scholars of the panth and most likely, they have way way way more knowledge of Gurmat, than you or me. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited April 28, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) That was the meaning given by the great Gurmukh scholars of the panth and most likely, they have way way way more knowledge of Gurmat, than you or me. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Who? Show me proof... and show me where THEY got that meaning... because taken from Gurbani alone, you can't get that meaning AT ALL! So that must be their own wishes perhaps? So answer this one question... taking YOUR interpretation of that one tuk, is being born as a woman vs a man a punishment then? Also, take 3HO as an exmaple... YB taught that yoga is part of Sikhi. Now, everyone in 3HO teaches others that yoga is part of SIkhi, and they teach yet more people the same. Now was Yogi Bhajan right? He is viewed as a scholar and revered by 3HO. You can't say that every Sant or Baba is correct because they actually contradict each other in various things. So who can say who is correct? We have to go back to actual Gurbani ourselves. SGGSJ is our ONLY Guru and guide... as soon as you listen only to someone else's interpretation, you are actually viewing them as higher than SGGSJ because you are relying on THEIR human interpretation! It's fine if you just want to follow one sect and parrot back what you are told and never try to understand anything for yourself. But for me all my life I have had an insatiable appetite to actually UNDERSTAND the underlying truth to the Universe. And I will NEVER view a man as being above me. We are both humans here for the same reason. Human life is rare we are told, so it makes no sense that some would be punished to be born as women (in a lowly position) while men are put in a high position. Human is human. We are all here for the same reason. And my Singh would probably have a hissy fit at me if I tried to put myself beneath him and subordinated myself as if he were God. We are equals. Oh and the equal partnership of husband and wife is actually echoed in Gurbani too... One Soul in two bodies. That is not a master / slave or God / worshipper relationship. To put either partner at a disadvantage breaks that One soul equally in two bodies relationship. I will never cave to the male superiority complex. Edited April 28, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Guys please stay on topic. We are going bit off topic now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Guys please stay on topic. We are going bit off topic now. Good one bro. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Funny coming from you when you put wrong meaning to one single tuk in Gurbani to justify wives viewing their husbands as God, when the full context was saying the opposite and instead referring to husband Lord and the actual context was to uplift women position and not to subordinate them. Instead you took a single tuk, and twisted the actual meaning to put women in a subordinate and lowly position to men. (and fought it tooth and nail on here). Off-topic. Time is very precious. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 We are locking this thread for now. Original poster if you have anything to add, please pm me, will re-open this thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Thanks it's now open again. Please keep on topic - So from what I recall my last question was : was it only Guru Nanak that was cited in the SGGS as being God or all 10 gurus by name. And someone also quoted as Guru Arjun also in the SGGS as being God. So that begs the question why not the other 8? Guru Angad, Amr Das and Ram Das came before Guru Arjun, surely they should have been mentioned if not all of them. So is it true to say only 2 Gurus were mentioned to be God in the SGGS, the other 8 are interpreted as being God? Also does the SGGS itself mention there are only 10 Gurus or mention all 10 of them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Also it has come to my attention from another thread that the last Guru, the living guru, SGGS is considered God. So harming the book can harm God? Is this a view shared by Sikhs? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Also it has come to my attention from another thread that the last Guru, the living guru, SGGS is considered God. So harming the book can harm God? Is this a view shared by Sikhs? You playing with semantics here. I carefully use the word-truth not god. There is big interpretative/theological difference between abhramic version of god and truth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 So when you say you use the term truth not God, why can't the same interpretation be applied to the 10 gurus. They were true teachers as opposed to Gods? seems like were cherry picking definitions when it suits us, aren't we? ps. just out of interest, what do you mean by theological difference between abhramic version of god and truth.? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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