Masand Story Is Been Used As Precedence For Panthic Policiing

[paapiman]

when i read this sakhi i thought of it more of the masands appropriating the sangats money earned through blood sweat and tears. Guru Ji set this example as a warning for people in the future of committing such deeds.

Satguru jee would have never given such harsh and cruel (from a non-Sikh perspective) punishments, if only theft and misappropriating funds were involved. Even if adultery, alcohol, etc were also involved, Maharaaj would have given them milder punishments.

Being boiled alive for theft only, does not make sense in Gurmat at all.

Don't get me wrong, I am not denying that masands engaged in theft and misappropriating of funds.

Thats more to do with humans being humans more than anything, trying to deflect questions to avoid giving answers. You know like when you ask a kid why did you do that and they say well so and so did it as well.

Good point.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Edited April 26, 2015 by paapiman

[BhagatSingh]

That was my question as well BhagatSingh, where indeed does it mention rape, as it's not mentioned in that quote.

Any other references to rape. quote would be nice

@ Satkirin Kaur - I don't want to get into a debate about shariah law, A - it's not my field of expertise and B this is not the proper forum, or topic for it. I suggest you join an Islamic forum to get an better idea about Islam or other religious forums to learn about particular religions.

As paapiman so elequantly put it:" Idiots and fools are born in almost all communities/religions. We do not need a phd to understand this fact." true dat fam.

Nailed it.

It may state that the punishment should be the same, however in practice the men are rarely punished or punished as harshly.

This is getting ridiculous. I'll repeat. Where is your evidence? You keep harping on about some kind of trend without any evidence for that trend.

You know what that's called in some places? "Pulling shit out of your ass" That's what you are doing here.

[BhagatSingh]

I heard about the rape part of it, from a famous Gurmukh

So rumours. Thanks. If you think SGGS is a person, that's your opinion. No need to keep repeating, I heard you the first time.

To everybody else,

Tell me if i am wrong. I think this whole masand incident was built on rumours or is a rumour itself. Are there any more pieces to this story that I am missing? pieces that are recorded and NOT just heard from a "famous gurmukh"?

[paapiman]

So rumours. Thanks. If you think SGGS is a person, that's your opinion. No need to keep repeating, I heard you the first time.

To everybody else,

Tell me if i am wrong. I think this whole masand incident was built on rumours or is a rumour itself. Are there any more pieces to this story that I am missing? pieces that are recorded and NOT just heard from a "famous gurmukh"?

A Gurmukh never spreads rumors. Masands got, what they deserved.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

[Singh123456777]

In the western judicial system a fake rape claim can put a man behind bars...

[Singh123456777]

Satkiran I'm still waiting for an apology from you..

[truthseeker546]

so there isn't any evidence of rape. I don't think "I heard from a gurumukh" counts.

So what if a non Sikh burns a copy of SGGS, would Sikhs then torture and kill the person? How would Sikhs react if Charlie Hebdo had burn't a copy of SGGS in protest of freedom of speech? I understand some Sikhs believe the SGGS to be the last guru but for everyone else, it's just another book.

Ps. So do I take from this that burning the SGGS, Skihs believe you actually hurt the guru? ie. God ??? maybe off topic but if the answer is yes I'll update this with my Gods and Gurus post when it gets open again.

[SAadmin]

so there isn't any evidence of rape. I don't think "I heard from a gurumukh" counts.

So what if a non Sikh burns a copy of SGGS, would Sikhs then torture and kill the person? How would Sikhs react if Charlie Hebdo had burn't a copy of SGGS in protest of freedom of speech? I understand some Sikhs believe the SGGS to be the last guru but for everyone else, it's just another book.

Ps. So do I take from this that burning the SGGS, Skihs believe you actually hurt the guru? ie. God ??? maybe off topic but if the answer is yes I'll update this with my Gods and Gurus post when it gets open again.

In Sikh theology/world, SGGS is living Guru. We treat as a living being, over and above mother, father, sister, brother. So your answer would lie - in another question what would one do if their mother, father, sister, brother was burn alive?

Actually, there is already bill tabled in india for declaring sggs as living guru -living being, but for time being any insult or beadhi against sggs is consider crime under section- Under section 295A of Indian penal code. Most western countries have hate crime laws:

http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1803184/

Central Government Act

Section 295A in The Indian Penal Code

²⁷² [295A. Deliberate and malicious acts, intended to outrage reli­gious feelings of any class by insulting its religion or reli­gious beliefs.—Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of ²⁷³ [citizens of India], ²⁷⁴ [by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise], insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to 4[three years], or with fine, or with both.]

[truthseeker546]

I understand N30 Singh. since you hear now can you open my other post Gurus and Gods please. I opened the post and it was closed due to other people arguing on it.

Yes I understand that for Sikhs its the living Guru, I'm fine with that and I respect that. I would never disrespect any religious book. I'd question it but not disrespect anyone's faith.

My questions which you nicely avoided were :

Q1 - If Sikhs believe the SGGS is the last living Guru, then does burning it harm the Guru or God? Say if a non Sikh like me has a copy of the SGGS, then say the copy of the SGGS is old and tattered. I put it into the paper recycling basket, the book gets recycled. Is that harmful to God? or disrespectful to Sikhs?

Q2 - If a non Sikh country like say France that values freedom of speech, and often goes out of its way to mock religions and religious figures was to burn or disrespect SGGS, what would the Sikh response in the west be ?Would you want to kill the people behind the insult. I'm not going to judge anyone, just understanding something - so no need for political answers.

[SAadmin]

Q1 - If Sikhs believe the SGGS is the last living Guru, then does burning it harm the Guru or God? Say if a non Sikh like me has a copy of the SGGS, then say the copy of the SGGS is old and tattered. I put it into the paper recycling basket, the book gets recycled. Is that harmful to God? or disrespectful to Sikhs?

Sri guru granth sahib ji is embodiment of alive truth and manifested truth is pointing towards its un-manifested truth, burning the manifested truth-(Sat) cannot never ultimately destroy the truth. However, certain respect sanctity of truth has to be kept, to uphold the truth. Sikhs maintain the respect-

If copy of SGGS is old, it goes through very certain procedure of preservation. http://www.pothiseva.org.uk/

Q2 - If a non Sikh country like say France that values freedom of speech, and often goes out of its way to mock religions and religious figures was to burn or disrespect SGGS, what would the Sikh response in the west be ?Would you want to kill the people behind the insult. I'm not going to judge anyone, just understanding something - so no need for political answers.

My advise would be sikhs shouldn't move to the country where hate religious crimes are tolerated. If they do happen to be in the country, follow legal means, france is part of UN geneva conventation, follow UN methods.

[Genie Singh]

 -EDITED-

Edited December 10, 2015 by JatherdarSahib

[Harbans Singh]

This story of masands burning to death can only be found in suraj parkash that was written few hundred years after Guru Gobind Singh. I have not yet found any concrete evidence and would be grateful if anyone has any solid evidence as thiis act goes against the principles taught by Guru. There is some dispute about the stories written in suraj Parkash where the author states that Guru took drugs therefore bit reluctant to accept the story of masands as well.

[paapiman]

This story of masands burning to death can only be found in suraj parkash that was written few hundred years after Guru Gobind Singh. I have not yet found any concrete evidence and would be grateful if anyone has any solid evidence as thiis act goes against the principles taught by Guru. There is some dispute about the stories written in suraj Parkash where the author states that Guru took drugs therefore bit reluctant to accept the story of masands as well.

​Bro, it is also mentioned in Pracheen Panth Prakash, written by Gyani Rattan Singh jee.

Sri Sooraj Prakash granth has been changed from its original version. There is no doubt about it. But that does not mean, that we reject all the sakhis in it.

Bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

[paapiman]

Daas has not been able to double confirm, if the Masands committed rape or not. Below is an account of the despicable activities of a descendant, of a Masand (Bhai Hundal).

Please have a look:

 

Bhul chul maaf

[CdnSikhGirl]

I guess the issue about beadbi to SGGSJ has been answered now... as three Singhs have now been arrested for murder of the one suspected of beadbi in Nagoke.  

They beat him to death... 

[paapiman]

Please listen below to Gyani jee, explaining the misdeeds of Masands.

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

[SAadmin]

We are seeing example of burning masand being used more and more often these days, recent event when dhumma chela quoted this on media and broad day light in punjab and then dhumma chelas in uk- justifying cold blooded murder of bhai bhupinder singh ji. In general, every groups wants to use this example to remove threat as they deem. These days, anyone who does not agree with their line of thought is massand ....totally ignoring contextualization, conceptualization, circumstances, under pinning of gurmat sidhant such as dya of guru sahib, karak bhramgyan element on all historical events.

This is clear example how one can get totally caught up in idolizing -cycle of historical events alone without gurmat under pinning (contextualization, dya aspect) and their egos hiding behind these events to carry on self righteous actions mixed with ego and pride against innocents, parchariks, scholars who have difference opnion. This is same pitt fall many hindu, muslim, buddhist, christian extremist and radicals have fallen into. If we claim ourselves unique than we must rise above from same pitfall many have fallen and realize cautionary tales/profound discourses and prime value sidhant in gurmat and follow those attributes than following this conditioned egoic human tendancy to be so blinded, caught up, hide behind the events to justify our own personal shortcoming, our own ego agenda. 

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, N30 S!NGH said:

We are seeing example of burning masand being used more and more often these days, recent event when dhumma chela quoted this on media and broad day light in punjab and then dhumma chelas in uk- justifying cold blooded murder of bhai bhupinder singh ji. 

Shame on those people who are justifying killing of an innocent human, using the Masand historical event. 

Sri Satguru jee forgave the sins of those Masands. Do these people have the power to kill someone, forgive all their sins and take them to Sachkhand?

 

Bhul chuk maaf