paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 So you are saying that here the tuk means to love Physical husband as God? That is just the translation of tuk you provided.NOT THE EXPLANATION! The translation is valid according to: - DDT Rehat Maryada - Amir Bhandaar teeka - Faridkot wala teeka The translation is very much self-explanatory. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Paapiman ji, let's say both meaning are right, She who looks upon husband as lord, or She who looks upon lord as husband Both the meanings are right. I never disagreed to it, but someone on this forum does not agree with one of the meanings. There might be even more meanings to that tuk. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 13, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 All humans are supposed to see God in each other. There is no heirarchy, nobody is above anyone else. Wives are not beneath their husbands on some respect scale. In fact, God can seen in all matter, living or non-living. It is very easy to talk like a Brahamgyani, but very hard to walk the talk. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) The translation is valid according to: - DDT Rehat Maryada - Amir Bhandaar teeka- Faridkot wala teeka The translation is very much self-explanatory. . Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee FatehI'm not against Translation.But translation is not always the core idea. Yes ,it's self-explanatory as the other members explained too. Hope it ends the bias here! Edited May 13, 2015 by sukrit kaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shastarsewak Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Paapiman: Veer Ji, the ongoing behas would end if you agree to just one more thing, not just because we ask you to, but from bottom of your heart, do you agree that out of Love/respect a Man can also bow to wife? And if bowing is a must do thing(assume mandatory or voluntarily), out of Love/respect both should do it - you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Here are two translations... I will edit and add the rest later. I have about 10 different translations and ALL say see God as Husband... not see husband as God. You can read 100 different translations of Gurbani, but IF all of them are inspired by Missionary/Akj(cults) school of thought, then in a sense, they only count as one. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 So, Paapiman veer ji ,you agree that the core idea of Tuk is to love the true master as the supreme power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Paapiman: Veer Ji, the ongoing behas would end if you agree to just one more thing, not just because we ask you to, but from bottom of your heart, do you agree that out of Love/respect a Man can also bow to wife? And if bowing is a must do thing(assume mandatory or voluntarily), out of Love/respect both should do it - you agree? Bro, it is obvious that a husband can bow to his wife out of love or respect, just as a mother can bow to her son, out of respect. Satguru jee (GOD) and Sri Krishan jee Maharaaj, did not allow their mothers to touch their feet, even though they were above them. If God in human form is following mother-son maryada, who are we to change maryadas? A Gursikh female will never allow her husband to touch her feet or bow down to her; as a son will never allow her mother to do the same. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 So, Paapiman veer ji ,you agree that the core idea of Tuk is to love the true master as the supreme power? Sister, it depends on avastha. The above is one of the arths of it and I agree to it. But that does not mean that we can negate the arth, which asks a wife to respect her husband as a devtaa. I personally, don't want to be treated as a devta, as I am aware of my very low spiritual level. But, I would like to see Gursikh females show utmost respect to the Gursikh males (treat them as devtay). Similarly, I would like to see a Gursikh son to show utmost respect to her mother. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shastarsewak Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Paapiman: quote: 'But, I would like to see Gursikh females show utmost respect to the Gursikh males (treat them as devtay).' unquote is this utmost respect limited only to females or it also includes males( treating wives as God)? Why you are dodging the answer by including mother? Forget the mother scenario for a while. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Yes exactly..But paapiman veer ji your answer is still little controversial. So ,a male shouldn't treat his wife as a Devi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Paapiman: quote: 'But, I would like to see Gursikh females show utmost respect to the Gursikh males (treat them as devtay).' unquote is this utmost respect limited only to females or it also includes males( treating wives as God)? Why you are dodging the answer by including mother? Forget the mother scenario for a while. I don't think (I might be wrong), there is any tuk in Gurbani or Rehatnamay, which instructs a husband to look upon his wife as God (in a literal sense). Gurbani instructs us to look at the jot of Waheguru in all. That includes, wife, dog, ant, plants, etc. Do you think, you or me can look at the jot in all? I don't think we are capable of doing that, until we reach a very high avastha. Only a Brahamgyani can. It is very easy to talk like a Brahamgyani, but very hard to walk the talk. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 13, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 O JEEZ!! You know there is never the end of bias.The bias can go on and one and one.Please any other wise member (especially than me) Join the discussion and just END It!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shastarsewak Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Paapiman Veer, Thanks for reply, but for me, this is the end of discussion. You have categorically accepted that woman is lower than male just because there is no Tuk in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which shows how little you know. Well, brother, you have a very long, very rough road ahead. But I can suggest you as member of Sangat, there is no shame in changing your attitude, I hope some day you agree to change and Guru ji will show you the right way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 So in conclusion Paapimans believes physical females are to see physical males as God but not the other way around. And is ignoring the spiritual meaning entirely. Again why do males deserve more respect than females? Answer why? Forget mother and son... Why does a Gursikh male deserve more respect from his wife than she does from him??? What gives him that higher position? The answer can't be 'because DDT rm says so' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Paapiman Veer, Thanks for reply, but for me, this is the end of discussion. You have categorically accepted that woman is lower than male just because there is no Tuk in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which shows how little you know. Well, brother, you have a very long, very rough road ahead. But I can suggest you as member of Sangat, there is no shame in changing your attitude, I hope some day you agree to change and Guru ji will show you the right way. It is very easy to talk like a Brahamgyani, but very hard to walk the talk. We need to stay in our human limits. That is why, maryadas were made. Obviously, when one reaches Brahamgyan, then it is a completely different story. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Sister, it depends on avastha. The above is one of the arths of it and I agree to it. But that does not mean that we can negate the arth, which asks a wife to respect her husband as a devtaa. I personally, don't want to be treated as a devta, as I am aware of my very low spiritual level. But, I would like to see Gursikh females show utmost respect to the Gursikh males (treat them as devtay). Similarly, I would like to see a Gursikh son to show utmost respect to her mother. Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee fateh But you no where said that a husband should respect her wife as A DEVI too.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) But you no where said that a husband should respect her wife as A DEVI too.?? Sister, I have already answered your question. Quote I don't think (I might be wrong), there is any tuk in Gurbani or Rehatnamay, which instructs a husband to look upon his wife as God (in a literal sense). Gurbani instructs us to look at the jot of Waheguru in all. That includes, wife, dog, ant, plants, etc. Unquote Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 13, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 It is very easy to talk like a Brahamgyani, but very hard to walk the talk. We need to stay in our human limits. That is why, maryadas were made. Obviously, when one reaches Brahamgyan, then it is a completely different story. Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh Here you are totally right!! But the maryadas should be the true ones as possesed by Guru Ji or the great saints of time.The definition of TRUE maryada shouldn't be changed.(Here I'm not attacking anyone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Here you are totally right!! But the maryadas should be the true ones as possesed by Guru Ji or the great saints of time.The definition of TRUE maryada shouldn't be changed.(Here I'm not attacking anyone) You are right. I am pretty sure, Gursikh females of that time considered their husbands as devtay. That is why, we have the term 'patidev'. Reference sakhi - Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) . Quote I don't think (I might be wrong), there is any tuk in Gurbani or Rehatnamay, which instructs a husband to look upon his wife as God (in a literal sense).. Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee FatehThis is because In entire Gurbani,a Jeev (as atma) is considered as a female.Hence,we think so. No person other than True master/lord is considered as a Male in gurbani. Edited May 13, 2015 by sukrit kaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 This is because In entire Gurbani,a Jeev (as atma) is considered as a female.Hence,we think so. No person other than True master/lord is considered as a Male in gurbani. What about Rehatnamay or Rehat Maryada or Sikh history? Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 "A Gursikhni should maintain a dutiful and placid disposition as a wife. She should regard her husband as her lord, serving him better food than other members of the family and instructing him in the principles of the Sikh faith." [1] (Bhai Chaupa Singh Rehatnama) [1] - http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/sikh-rehat-maryada/chaupa-singh-rahit-nama-v15-2078#3 Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 What about Rehatnamay or Rehat Maryada or Sikh history? Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh I've not read the Rehatnaama yet,so can't put any view.But ,has this mentioned in Rehatnaama to NOT respect wife as a Devi?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I've not read the Rehatnaama yet,so can't put any view.But ,has this mentioned in Rehatnaama to NOT respect wife as a Devi?? It is not mentioned though. Mother should be looked upon as a devi, not wife. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts