CdnSikhGirl Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Paapiman has posted that it's "Gurmat" for a wife to bow to her husband, out of respect even if she is spiritually higher than him.Since it's was off topic in the other thread and I am now curious to have something answered regarding this:Gurbani says we are all equal. Male and female are equal. Why wouldn't that show of respect go both ways? Why would the husband not also bow to the wife out of respect? Does he deserve her respect more than she deserves his? What gives him this position where he deserves more respect than she does? Are they not equal partners, two halves of one whole? Then why would he not also show his wife the same respect that she shows him?Since he used the analogy that a son also bows to his Mother... so I explained that this is done because she raised him, she is an authority figure over him (yes even in Adulthood). But Paapimsn tries to justify it saying it's not done to as a show of submission / authority. So....if that's the case, and it's not done as a sign of submission to authortiy, then why is she the only one doing bowing to him? Again, if husband and wife are seen as equals in their relationship, why would one prostrate to the other without the other partner recriprocating? Wouldn't that show an uneven balance of respect in the marriage? Shouldn't respect be both ways equally, as they have entered in this relationship together as adults to be partners? Or am I right, and it's a sign of submission to authority?Why is this show of respect only given in one direction? Why does she not also deserve the same respect from her husband? After all, she endures 45 del of pain (equivalent of breaking 20 bones at once) to bring each of his children into the world. That alone should earn his respect I would think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Gurbani says we are all equal. Male and female are equal. Mother and son (both humans) are equal, according to Gurbani. When will a mother bow to her son? Also, Satguru jee (GOD) and Sri Krishan jee Maharaaj, did not allow their mothers to touch their feet, even though they were above them. If God in human form is following mother-son maryada, who are we to change maryadas? Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 12, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Mother and son (both humans) are equal, according to Gurbani. When will a mother bow to her son? Also, Satguru jee (GOD) and Sri Krishan jee Maharaaj, did not allow their mothers to touch their feet, even though they were above them. If God in human form is following mother-son maryada, who are we to change maryadas? Please exaplain the actual reason.Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee FatehWe are not talking about Mother and Son. I am asking exactly WHY would a wife bow to her husband when both enter marriage as equals. A Mother raised her son... so that is self explanatory. But when two equals join in a marriage as equal partners, why would one show more respect than the other? Why would one receive more respect than the other?Please actually asnwer. What did the man do to deserve more respect from his wife, than he show show her in kind?? Why should they not both show each other the same respect equally??We never do something without there being a practical reason... there must be a reason behind it. I suggest that it's the cultural view that women are subordinate to men and she is bowing in submission to his authority. You say that is not the reason... so what is the reason? If it's simply out of respect then why would he not also respect her and bow to her? Why would it be seen as wrong for him to bow to her?My theory is that would feel 'degrading' to him. But it's not somehow degrading to her to be in this position?? Hence, bowing in submission to authorty over her. (or at least how culture dictates authorty and heirarchy).Instead of answering with another question please actually answer the question! If husband and wife are equals, and enter the relationship as equals both as adults, why does the husband deserve more respect from the wife, than the wife deserves from her husband? Why is he in a position of privelage? Edited May 12, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 We are not talking about Mother and Son. I am asking exactly WHY would a wife bow to her husband when both enter marriage as equals. A Mother raised her son... so that is self explanatory. But when two equals join in a marriage as equal partners, why would one show more respect than the other? Why would one receive more respect than the other? A Gursikh son, when he grows up might do tremendous amount of seva* for his mother, especially when she grows very old. In addition to that, he might also provide monetary support to her mother. So should the mother start bowing to him out of respect? They are equal in the eyes of God. *Doing seva of adults (really old ones) is actually harder than doing seva of babies, in my opinion. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragmaala Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 In terms of bowing down...here are my views If a couple is Amritdhari Khalsa, they should just greet each other with Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!This way they would be greeting Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, a simple solution to maintaining mutual respect, reciprocated from both parties. What a beautiful way of maintaining respect , bringing sweetness and remembering Waheguru! If someone wants to show respect, physical signs of prostration are not necessary in my humble opinion, It can be done through sweet words action and listening/understanding each other also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragmaala Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 I am going to make a deep metaphorical statement here borrowed from someone: Husbands do bow down to their wives. ... in a different way.... Those who are married will understand that ^. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 A Gursikh son, when he grows up might do tremendous amount of seva* for his mother, especially when she grows very old. In addition to that, he might also provide monetary support to her mother. So should the mother start bowing to him out of respect? They are equal in the eyes of God. *Doing seva of adults (really old ones) is actually harder than doing seva of babies, in my opinion. Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee FatehPlease answer the question... we are talking about two adults who enter into an equal partnership called marriage... not Parents / Children.What has the man done to deserve more respect from his wife, than she deserves from her husband? Why would she be required to prostrate to him, and he not to her when they enter both as adults into an equal relationship??A Mother / Son analogy is different because she still raised him from birth. Hence the respect... respect for the 18 or so years of care and hardship she took after excruciating childbirth and none months of ruining her body for him. Teaching him everything he learned growing up... Like it or not there is an authority there and a submission... son submissive to Mother (and we see it all the time even with Punjabi Sikh guys... they defer to their Mother's will sometimes even with regards to who they marry etc) So it is a sign of submission to her authority.A husband has done none of this over his wife, as they enter a marriage as equals. They both care for each other... they both provide. They are on the same level. So why does he deserve more respect than she does?Stop going back to Mother and Son analogy because it's not the same thing! A Mother wouldnt bow to her son because she raised him not the other way around. A Husband did not raise his wife. He did not teach her all through her life or change her daiapers. A husband and wife enter marriage as two equal halves of one whole. So why would a husband deserve more respect especially in the form of prostration... than the wife deserves from him? Why does he get special privelage over her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 I am going to make a deep metaphorical statement here borrowed from someone:Husbands do bow down to their wives. ... in a different way....Those who are married will understand that ^.I am just trying to get Paapiman to actually justify his comments for once, instead of just answering with 'thats the way it is' or 'we can't question this or that' (in other words he always avoids actually answering).I agree fully. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh is pefrect way to show respect to each other.One partner bowing to the other shows a skewed balance in the marriage. One partner will always feel 'less' than the other if that is done one way and not the other. Marriage is supposed to be an equal partnership. One soul in two bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 What has the man done to deserve more respect from his wife, than she deserves from her husband? Why would she be required to prostrate to him, and he not to her when they enter both as adults into an equal relationship?? What has mother (female) done to get more respect than father (male)? In Gurbani, most of the times (correct me if I am wrong), mothers of Gurmukhs are praised. Why is that? Now, you will have to agree that father and mother are on the same level. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 If someone wants to show respect, physical signs of prostration are not necessary in my humble opinion, It can be done through sweet words action and listening/understanding each other also. ਕਰਿ ਸਾਧੂ ਅੰਜੁਲੀ ਪੁਨੁ ਵਡਾ ਹੇ ॥ Greet the Holy Saint with your palms pressed together; this is an act of great merit. ਕਰਿ ਡੰਡਉਤ ਪੁਨੁ ਵਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Bow down before Him; this is a virtuous action indeed. ||1||Pause|| Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 What has mother (female) done to get more respect than father (male)? In Gurbani, most of the times (correct me if I am wrong), mothers of Gurmukhs are praised. Why is that? Now, you will have to agree that father and mother are on the same level. Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee FatehSTOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT TO PARENT / CHILD - and yes both parents deserve praise as it takes BOTH a Mother AND Father to raise a child!NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION REGADING HUSBAND AND WIFE!!!!WHAT has HE DONE to deserve a position of more respect than her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT TO PARENT / CHILD - and yes both parents deserve praise as it takes BOTH a Mother AND Father to raise a child! NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION REGADING HUSBAND AND WIFE!!!! WHAT has HE DONE to deserve a position of more respect than her? Your answer is simple. As mothers (females) are given more praises in Gurbani than fathers (males), Gurmat instructs a wife to consider her Gursikh husband as a devta (demi-God). Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Your answer is simple. As mothers (females) are given more praises in Gurbani than fathers (males), Gurmat instructs a wife to consider her Gursikh husband as a devta (demi-God). Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee FatehBut... Gurbani says we all have the same divine light in each of us equally... so therefore he should also see his wife as a devta then too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 But... Gurbani says we all have the same divine light in each of us equally... so therefore he should also see his wife as a devta then too! Same way, a mother should see the divine light in her son and see him as God too. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Wow we are beating a dead horse for a while now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Wow we are beating a dead horse for a while now.. hahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 To summarize... nobody should bow to anybody. We should only bow to SGGSJ only.We can show signs of respect to each other in different ways like simply telling our spouse how much we appreciate them (both husband and wife). There needs to be no heirarchy where one has to view the other as a God above them.I am also 100% sure a Mother much much more appreciates a child telling them simply 'I love you, and I thank you for everything you do for me' than to prostrate before them as if they were a diety.Similarly, I would think a husband would much more appreciate his wife simply telling him she loves him and thanks him for everything he does for her. Just as a wife would appreciate her husband telling her that he loves her and appreciates everything she does for him. Two equals sharing mutual respect for each other as a team.We don't need people bowong to others in some sort of rank structure or heirarchy which suggests that some are above others.To me that is more in line with Gurbani. And really, if someone is expecting someone else to prostrate before them, doesn't that just feed Ego anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 We can show signs of respect to each other in different ways like simply telling our spouse how much we appreciate them (both husband and wife). There needs to be no heirarchy where one has to view the other as a God above them. In an Anand karaj ceremony, a wife is told to hold the pala of her husband. It is not, the other way round. Also, a man always starts first when going around SSGGSJM. In Hinduism (correct me if I am wrong), 4 times, a male starts first and then they switch for the last 3. Even, then 4 is greater than 3. What will you say now? Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 I am going to make a deep metaphorical statement here borrowed from someone: Husbands do bow down to their wives. ... in a different way.... Those who are married will understand that ^. and those that understand that...will know that it is one of the greatest honors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Good luck to paapiman with his marriage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Good luck to paapiman with his marriage Im not sure if he wants to get married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Good luck to paapiman with his marriage Im not sure if he wants to get married. hahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Im not sure if he wants to get married. Two people have to decide if they want to marry each other... it's not up to paapiman himself No hard feelings dude,,,,Just joking.. I can tell your quite young. We all live through those years where we think we know it...but life teaches you more as you age...more than you can ever try teaching yourself ! Just take it one step at a time and don't try to grow up too fast.....and you should be ok! Edited May 12, 2015 by Lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Two people have to decide if they want to marry each other... it's not up to paapiman himself No hard feelings dude,,,,Just joking.. I can tell your quite young. We all live through those years where we think we know it...but life teaches you more as you age...more than you can ever try teaching yourself ! Just take it one step at a time and don't try to grow up too fast.....and you should be ok! Dhan Guru Nanak.......tu heen Nirankaar. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Can we close this topic now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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