Akj Supporters Please Explain Me This

[ramgharia]

[jaikaara]

Maalko ..badnami apni hi honi ..chhad deyo...Waheguru kirpa karan ..sadbuddhi bakshan

[sukrit kaur]

How bad it is,when one sikh is putting wrong words about other sikh's way of bhagti/naam abhyaa!!.I couldn't read the text easily,but to show the video in the manner they did,is really a shameful act!!

Totally a big shame!!

[SikhKhoj]

There are many paths (in Sufism, Alevism) where meditation is done by dancing, twirling (not exactly like the video... still) but I feel while it is not forbidden in Sikhi, a certain amount of sehaj avastha should be kept.

[ramgharia]

i am sorry if i hurt anyones feeling. just want why they are doing simran like this. what is written is wrong beacouse it insults our panth.

Edited May 18, 2015 by ramgharia

[CdnSikhGirl]

Don't go by this please....

I have been to an actual AKJ Samagam and they don't do this! I don't know what this is! But it's not what majority of AKJ do!

Edit: I watched again and really to me it just looks like they really got lost in the Simran. The 'noises' the commentary points out if you listen is still 'waheguru' just sung really fast. But anyway as I said I have been to an AKJ Samagam myself in person and they don't do this. I think this one group may have just gotten so caught up in Simran they kind of let go a little much but I don't think they were doing anything which could be considered beadbe.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[Guest]

As others have mentioned, sehaj avastha is encouraged where sri guru granth sahib is parkashed even mastene (udasi) know this they act in sehaj when it comes to maharaj darbar. This video is beadhi as its in sri guru granth sahib hazoori.

However, dancing is quite alright if it comes spontaneously out of sheer love for divine, there are videos of 3ho dancing out of intoxication or love its careful slippery slope any ritual can fall right into dogma/pakhand if its done to show off- fakeness/ following trend with no feeling

In dancing, mind, feeling, being are ONE (you move as one UNIT to the point you cannot stop even if you want to do, it will stop in stages) same as true martial art. When that happens, that dancing expression comes out spontaneously from one beingness (heart + mind combined)- then there is nothing wrong with it..

[CdnSikhGirl]

I really think this is what those in the video were doing Neo. Might look strange from outside but I really think they just got so immersed in Simran that they 'let go'

But as I said this is not what you will find with most AKJ this is exception to the rule not the rule.

The commentary on the video was just cruel and wrong.

Though AKJ ARE very good at inducing altered states through Simran! I can vouch from experience! But when I was at one of the Samagams we didn't go completely bonkers

[Ragmaala]

In my opinion the youth were just having fun, not in a sexual way but more like brother hug/slap to the back way.

just like as kids we were having so much , that we would forget about norms, customs and ways of elders around us, it was just that moment

their mischievous side was putting on a show lol

But I agree , it should be contained in presence of Maharaj.

[Guest]

Though AKJ ARE very good at inducing altered states through Simran! I can vouch from experience! But when I was at one of the Samagams we didn't go completely bonkers

Enforcing -Altered states through simran is maya, ultimately discouraged. But off course its ego human conditioning that ego wants to feel good by trying those alterating states through simran, but truth(essence of Gurmat) is not confined in these alterted states, truth is effortless choiceless liv (unbroken current of shabad). Don't get me wrong i wouldn't call these altered states as manmat as its good to get taste of ras- anand at alterated states of simran intially to give jump start- encouragement to go beyond but caution needs to paid by individuals as one can easily get stuck in alterated states/pointers by fixated on them which can easily turn into hindrance in one spiritual soul development.

[CdnSikhGirl]

Enforcing -Altered states through simran is maya, ultimately discouraged. But off course its ego human conditioning that ego wants to feel good by trying those alterating states through simran, but truth(essence of Gurmat) is not confined in these alterted states, truth is effortless choiceless liv (unbroken current of shabad). Don't get me wrong i wouldn't call these altered states as manmat as its good to get taste of ras- anand at alterated states of simran intially to give jump start- encouragement to go beyond but caution needs to paid by individuals as one can easily get stuck in alterated states/pointers by fixated on them which can easily turn into hindrance in one spiritual soul development.

hmm I think you misunderstood altered states...

What I mean is not something like euphoria. I mean, the way they approach simran actually does allow people to see beyond the physical reality / maya. Like, the vibrations felt in out of body experiences etc. The ability to discern more there than the physical. The feeling that you are more than your physical shell.

I didn't mean anything like euphoria or anything that would be considered bad or maya... maybe we have different meanings of what 'altered states' is.

To me altered state of consciousness means conscious perception beyond the normal physical everyday experience.

[Guest]

To me altered state of consciousness means conscious perception beyond the normal physical everyday experience.

To me both physical and subtle is maya no matter how transcendental subtle state is. Really beyond is eternal changeless state.

[CdnSikhGirl]

To me both physical and subtle is maya no matter how transcendental subtle state is. Really beyond is eternal changeless state.

Hmm but its impossible to experience at the changeless state because experience by its very definition requires change. At least while we are 'separate' so the only glimpses we can get are through experiences which show us undoubtedly that the physical is not all there is. By experiencing what lies beyond physical (subtle) we can gain some insight into how everything is connected, everything is one. Even though yes, we are still looking at it, as a separate being. Like peering beyond the clock face into the workings of the clock and seeing the gears in motion. From the changeless state or point of view, there is no clock at all, in fact there is nothing except 'existence'. So for us to gain any understanding from our limited perception, we require these spiritual experiences.

[Guest chatanga1]

Don't go by this please....

I have been to an actual AKJ Samagam and they don't do this! I don't know what this is! But it's not what majority of AKJ do!

Edit: I watched again and really to me it just looks like they really got lost in the Simran. The 'noises' the commentary points out if you listen is still 'waheguru' just sung really fast. But anyway as I said I have been to an AKJ Samagam myself in person and they don't do this. I think this one group may have just gotten so caught up in Simran they kind of let go a little much but I don't think they were doing anything which could be considered beadbe.

You've been to an actual Akj smagam? and this isn't an actual akj smagam?

If you've been to ONE how do you know what the majority do?

[CdnSikhGirl]

You've been to an actual Akj smagam? and this isn't an actual akj smagam?

If you've been to ONE how do you know what the majority do?

I have many AKJ friends and I asked them... I showed them the video. Trust me... they were as surprised as rest of us. They said they don't do that!

[Lucky]

Enforcing -Altered states through simran is maya, ultimately discouraged. But off course its ego human conditioning that ego wants to feel good by trying those alterating states through simran, but truth(essence of Gurmat) is not confined in these alterted states, truth is effortless choiceless liv (unbroken current of shabad). Don't get me wrong i wouldn't call these altered states as manmat as its good to get taste of ras- anand at alterated states of simran intially to give jump start- encouragement to go beyond but caution needs to paid by individuals as one can easily get stuck in alterated states/pointers by fixated on them which can easily turn into hindrance in one spiritual soul development.

Totally agree!

Maya is BOTH physical and subtle.

The akj technique above is a complete forced and altered state of consciousness. It is in no way the goal of simran.

It can be very misleading, if one thinks that it is some divine joyous state.

There is only ONE benefit by doing fast paced jap in kirtan, and that is to help ''Dhrir'' the gurmantar into the mind. It's like hammering it inside your mind at a rapid rate.

It can help in preparing and paving the way for deeper simran in sehaj and towards 'one-ness'

Occasional listening and participating in fast paced jap helps in smacking our corrupted, jumping minds......but that's it...it's a preparation.

The very rapid shallow breaths and chanting gurmantar leads to states of hypoxia- which is a drop in blood oxygen. This also causes states of euphoria, tranquility and overconfidence.

A lot of them will claim they experienced the ''anand''..in the smagam...But this is NOT the anand of gurmat.....Don't be fooled by this!

It is just a temporary forced technique,..........the same techniques used by cult leaders all over the world,where they get crowds of followers going into elevated states via rapid chanting!

The goal of simran is to get into the states of complete stillness because that is the only way the absorption and samadhi can occur. That's when you discover true 'Anand'.. when the body is physically still but your sukham sareer is jagat and universally active with the whole cosmic consciousness.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Lucky

[Kuttabanda2]

I have many AKJ friends and I asked them... I showed them the video. Trust me... they were as surprised as rest of us. They said they don't do that!

Tapoban AKJ (Akhandkirtanijatha.org) are actually against this kind of stuff. They do Swaas Swaas Simran, but they don't practice dhunee in the middle of Kirtan, they don't do it at all, they also strongly oppose the shaking of heads and "Simran" escalating into mere screams and weird noises.