Respect for SGPC maryada

[CdnSikhGirl]

So why did you marry a man then? Why did you discriminate against those people who don't have perfectly formed male genitalia?

I am sorry... I didn't check my husband's genetalia to see if it was 'perfectly formed male genetalia' prior to marrying him.  I didn't care about his genetalia... we connect on a deeply spitiual level that's why I married him and he thinks same way I do, that all humans deserve equal opportunity regardless of differences. 

Wanting to limit people based on what's between their legs is really really low behaviour and I am ashamed and embarassed when I have to explain to some non Sikh friends that there are Singhs who actually think like this, who want to place limits on women and see women as inferior simply because we aren't the same gender as them. It's superiority complex plain and simple... the same thinking why high caste think they deserve more than low caste, and why yes I will say it... whites previously thought they deserved more than blacks in North America etc. Just people wanting to dominate others and have someone that they can think they are better than.  It's a shameful and embarassing human trait... the desire to be 'better' than others. :(  

Everything you keep parroting can be summed up by this:  "The Gurus all took male form, and I am a male so I'm better than you are"
In this quest of yours where you just have to have somehting to hold over the heads of women, this need to be 'superior' to someone... You have completely lost sight of the fact that our souls are the true reality... and our souls are the same and are genderless. 
 

Edited October 7, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[Crystal]

Longing to put a spanner in the works....

 

How true is it that Sikhs were told to inter caste marry when they took amrit however they did not inter marry with majbis due to the personal hygiene. Likewise sharing the battta with them.

 

 

CrCrystal

Edited October 7, 2015 by Crystal

[chatanga1]

I have never heard that a woman 'cant' take Amrit with pyjama off.

well then it obviously is a lie then isn't it, if you haven't heard of it.

In fact I don't see the issue... lots of women wear shorts and kachera is the same between male and female, so why would female legs be any different than male legs? I think if pyjama is required to be off then everyone should. 

Good. recommend it to the Gurdwara where you supposedly took amrit.

Even representing Guru Gobind Singh JI, our souls are genderless are they not??? Is it the soul or the physical body we are representing?

Your soul is not representing Guru Sahib. The 5 bodies are. The Shabad represents the Guru's spirituality, and yes that includes the verse from CharitroPakhyan Granth. The one you used to insult your Guru repeatedly and frequently.

Gurbani says these bodies are only shells and meaningless and turn to ash.  It's the soul inside which is real.  So why can't one soul represent another soul? 

Answered above. You can't represent the Guru's soul. Thats tantamount to saying you are the Guru. I know that you are low enough to make that claim.

These differences have been eliminated and its not me it's DDTs own RM which says so!!!!

Like a lot of things you have missed in your 18 years of supposed study of sikhi, you do not understand the Taksal RM. Try reading it in Panjabi, and leaving the english.

 

A black man will always be a black man right? Guru Gobind Singh was not black... so with your thinking a black man should not be able to do seva as Panj Pyaras?  Or a caucasian man? So I ask again, why is gender so different from skin colour, or caste, etc? 

Skin colour has no bearing on physical representation. Any man of any race will always be a man. Pretty cheap shot though.

Our biological family doesn't magically change with Amrit.  If an Amritdhari Sikh takes a DNA test, guest what? They will still match their biological family!!!

Thanks for proving my point that localities have no bearing on the matter.

[kdsingh80]

 And outside of who has to carry and deliver a baby, once the baby is born, the tasks can be shared equally with Mother and Father and any tasks beyond childbirth, are not gender driven.  Either spouse can watch a child, either spouse can feed a child, either spouse can cook, scrub dishes, sweep the floor... etc. 

Yes the tasks can be shared but the bond between mother and young children is natural while with the father it is social. There is ethnic minority in China where a Man woman meet spend some time and later woman goes to her house and man goes to his. the child born out of this was raised by mother and the woman's brother play the role of father figure, in other words real fathers are never able to see their children.This type of social model is found in minority that's why nobody talks about it. 

[chatanga1]

I am sorry... I didn't check my husband's genetalia to see if it was 'perfectly formed male genetalia' prior to marrying him.

of course you didn't. because you were too busy discriminating against eunuchs/ladyboys.

I am ashamed and embarassed when I have to explain to some non Sikh friends that there are Singhs who actually think like this, who want to place limits on women and see women as inferior simply because we aren't the same gender as them.

You should be ashamed of insulting of Guru first and foremost.

Everything you keep parroting can be summed up by this:  "The Gurus all took male form, and I am a male so I'm better than you are"

You may claim to be  a sikh, but the blood of your genocidal ancestors still speaks through your twisted tongue.

I have asked you this question so many times. Show any one time where I have claimed I'm better than any woman.

[chatanga1]

 You have completely lost sight of the fact that our souls are the true reality... and our souls are the same and are genderless.

You never even had sight of the fact that our bodies on this earth have a role to play in enabling our soul to achieve it's goal. Souls are genderless but I'm sure your body isn't.

[CdnSikhGirl]

Yes the tasks can be shared but the bond between mother and young children is natural while with the father it is social. There is ethnic minority in China where a Man woman meet spend some time and later woman goes to her house and man goes to his. the child born out of this was raised by mother and the woman's brother play the role of father figure, in other words real fathers are never able to see their children.This type of social model is found in minority that's why nobody talks about it. 

This is not true!  Otherwise those who are adopted would never have a bond with adoptive parents.  And I have seen children who are more attached to their Father and I have seen horrible Mothers who just shouldn't have kids at all.  

I don't think I will have children (I'm 40 now anyway) but I know I wouldn't make a good Mother.  I'm ok being around older kids like teenagers... but I'm scared of babies (I don't know how to act around them - while some people can do the coochy coo thing easily I feel like a nutjob and just strange so I feel like I can't associate with babies and poop/puke make me gag) and toddlers I would lose patience VERY VERY quickly... loud shrieks and crying give me headaches when I am around someone else's toddlers and when this happens I have to leave.  So where is this natural bond you are speaking of that women are supposed to just naturally have?  I sure don't have it!  

 

[chatanga1]

Also Chatnga1: You asked..... How can a female represent Guru Gobind Singh Ji??

Please re-read this screenshot of Damdami Taksal's Gurmat Rehet Maryada for your answer!!!

what does it say ? that one becomes the living image. Is this the physical represntation of the Guru? No. Because then anyone and everyone could claim to be the Guru.

Plus it says "by becoming knowledgeable", which you have shown yourself to be inept at especially with the insults you have posted towards Guru Sahib's holy teachings.

[kdsingh80]

This is not true!  Otherwise those who are adopted would never have a bond with adoptive parents.  And I have seen children who are more attached to their Father and I have seen horrible Mothers who just shouldn't have kids at all.  

I don't think I will have children (I'm 40 now anyway) but I know I wouldn't make a good Mother.  I'm ok being around older kids like teenagers... but I'm scared of babies (I don't know how to act around them - while some people can do the coochy coo thing easily I feel like a nutjob and just strange so I feel like I can't associate with babies and poop/puke make me gag) and toddlers I would lose patience VERY VERY quickly... loud shrieks and crying give me headaches when I am around someone else's toddlers and when this happens I have to leave.  So where is this natural bond you are speaking of that women are supposed to just naturally have?  I sure don't have it!  

 

Social bond can be with anybody but hormonal changes happen only in woman's body that make them attached to their kids.

 

As far you being good mother or bad mother , only time will tell many times what we think we can't do destiny make us very good in that

[CdnSikhGirl]

well then it obviously is a lie then isn't it, if you haven't heard of it.

Good. recommend it to the Gurdwara where you supposedly took amrit.

Your soul is not representing Guru Sahib. The 5 bodies are. The Shabad represents the Guru's spirituality, and yes that includes the verse from CharitroPakhyan Granth. The one you used to insult your Guru repeatedly and frequently.

Answered above. You can't represent the Guru's soul. Thats tantamount to saying you are the Guru. I know that you are low enough to make that claim.

Like a lot of things you have missed in your 18 years of supposed study of sikhi, you do not understand the Taksal RM. Try reading it in Panjabi, and leaving the english.

 

Skin colour has no bearing on physical representation. Any man of any race will always be a man. Pretty cheap shot though.

Thanks for proving my point that localities have no bearing on the matter.

Actually you are the one ignoring the RM and you can hurl all the insults you want.  The message in Gurbani is clear... see ALL with a single eye of equality.  The message in even DDTs RM is clear, dinstinctions used to discriminate against people have been eliminated with creation of the Khalsa (including gender) and it even says in that 22 note... that all true Khalsa (He or She) become living representative of Guru.  

Instead what agenda are you pushing?? 

A wish to be superior to women, to put yourself on a pedestal over women because you happen to have a penis and the Gurus all had penises? So what you think that makes you better than women?  The more you type all I hear echoing is "All the Gurus had penises and I have a penis and you don't so I'm better than you nyah nyah" like a little child, just having to make up some reason to justify why you are better than someone else.  Just that kind of thinking makes you lower than anyone you are trying to say is beneath you simply for having an innie instead of an outie.  You are what's wrong in the world... Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught that all humans deserve equal treatment no matter what differences they posses. You are trying to teach exclusivity and superiority instead of seeing all the human race as one.  Learn to see past your penis... just like Paapiman... you can't take it with you!  I think you will be stunned when you see that all humans regardless of what body they happened to be in while here, are all the exact same genderless souls.  

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

what does it say ? that one becomes the living image. Is this the physical represntation of the Guru? No. Because then anyone and everyone could claim to be the Guru.

Plus it says "by becoming knowledgeable", which you have shown yourself to be inept at especially with the insults you have posted towards Guru Sahib's holy teachings.

So then if it has to be a physical representation exactly... a white man can't be in Panj Pyaras, nor a black man,... because the original 5 and also Guru Gobind Singh Ji were not white or black. It has to be the same physical representation right?  And they all have to be the same height of the original five right? And have the same colour eyes? And be the same exact ages etc?  Using your logic, a black man will always be a black man, and a white man will always be a white man right?? They could never represent someone who had brown skin.

You can't pick and choose and say that gender matters but not other physical traits like skin colour. If it has to be 'physical' representation right?

That thinking is seriously wrong. That makes no sense... it's not the exact physical image that is being represented. It's what they stood for that is being represented.  

Edited October 7, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[kdsingh80]

So then if it has to be a physical representation exactly... a white man can't be in Panj Pyaras, nor a black man,... because the original 5 and also Guru Gobind Singh Ji were not white or black. It has to be the same physical representation right?  And they all have to be the same height of the original five right? And have the same colour eyes? And be the same exact ages etc? 

You can't pick and choose and say that gender matters but not other physical traits like skin colour. If it has to be 'physical' representation right?

That thinking is seriously wrong. That makes no sense... it's not the exact physical image that is being represented. It's what they stood for that is being represented.  

Gender is different from color.

Women these days will be accepted by many as panj pyare but how many will accept an eunuch in that?

[chatanga1]

Actually you are the one ignoring the RM and you can hurl all the insults you want. 

You are the one who can't understand the rm. so you come out with rubbish like :

 that all true Khalsa (He or She) become living representative of Guru. 

and I have already told you what that means. What agenda are you trying to push here?

  A wish to be superior

aren't those the traits of your dna? the genocidal maniacs who have tried and succeeded to destroy cultures and civilisations ?

  The more you type all I hear echoing is 

You don't hear anything. If you did, you wouldnt haverepeatedly  insulted your Guru, whilst attempting to be the only one who can understand Gurbani.

[chatanga1]

So then if it has to be a physical representation exactly...

No, I never said it has to be a physical representation exactly. I know you can't read gurmukhi, but please tell me you can read english. A man can represent another man. End of.

.It has to be the same physical representation right?  

And they all have to be the same height of the original five right?

And have the same colour eyes?

And be the same exact ages etc?  

Using your logic, a black man will always be a black man, and a white man will always be a white man right??

No, no, no, no and no.

All you hear echoing?

That thinking is seriously wrong. That makes no sense... it's not the exact physical image that is being represented.

Now here, finally you are right. Your thinking is seriously flawed.

[CdnSikhGirl]

Actually Chatanga1 you said it has to be physical representation... so what you mean is it has to be gender representation but all else can be totally different? You are essentially saying gender is the only thing which matters about anyone and that only males matter, while females are seen as inferior.  Wow this is how you see Sikhi? Reduced to only caring about what's between someone's legs? Maybe you should start editing the wikipedia page to warn any females away who might be interested, and actually believe the claims of equality, along with all other Sikh sites (save for a few forums).  Maybe many of the Punjabi born women will leave too and eventually men can have it all for themselves. And then in a generation or two it will die out because the women will go somewhere else.  But at the very least someone should start changing all the sites that say women are seen as equals in Sikhi to say that women are seen as inferior second class in Sikhi.  It will save a lot of women the headache.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[CdnSikhGirl]

Gender is different from color.

Women these days will be accepted by many as panj pyare but how many will accept an eunuch in that?

I don't see why a Eunich would have to even tell anyone that they were a eunich... they would just be seen as men anyway.  Who has to know their man parts were chopped off? That falls into the realm of priavet information anyway. 

[chatanga1]

Actually Chatanga1 you said it has to be physical representation... so what you mean is...

and you had the audacity to screech about echoing? What it is, is exactly how I've said it is. Bring some other lies/false representations here rather than bang on about things that have been clearly explained to you.

Don't be so thick. I know you can't help being devious but just don't be so thick.

Maybe you should start editing the wikipedia page

Maybe i could if i didn't have to repeat myself to an airhead every five minutes.

[CdnSikhGirl]

and you had the audacity to screech about echoing? What it is, is exactly how I've said it is. Bring some other lies/false representations here rather than bang on about things that have been clearly explained to you.

Don't be so thick. I know you can't help being devious but just don't be so thick.

Maybe i could if i didn't have to repeat myself to an airhead every five minutes.

Really you think males are superior and all you can do is throw insults!  LOL.  Doesn't show much superiority there... 

[Orochimaru]

I think you are the one thinking man are superior to women not anyone else but yourself , no one is superior only guru sahibs themselves , so stopping thinking men r superior 

[kdsingh80]

I don't see why a Eunich would have to even tell anyone that they were a eunich... they would just be seen as men anyway.  Who has to know their man parts were chopped off? That falls into the realm of priavet information anyway. 

if a boy is castrated early in life .it is difficult for him to disguise as man. He will hardly have beard and his voice will to be not like man

[jaikaara]

How can anything I wrote be considered hatred?  Hatred is condemning women to a second class existence in Sikhi...

Look , be clear ..on this forum some may agree with you and others dont ..i am not the type that will keep nagging over issues ...if you feel women should do sewa ..be a sewadaar with a jatha that allows women ..thats your choice ...arguing with us on what you feel should be the ideal situation wont make sense ..none of us here are are jathedars , mukhis , or members of SGPC....

your post on every topic will have trash and filth against customs which came in place for a reason...pages full of your trash !

It is you who accepted Sikhi...you did not receive an invitation ..so please analyze your actions, Yogi Bhajan had the guts to form his own jatha and redefine Sikhi in his own way  If you wish you can set an example like him.

You call yourself as someone from an aboriginal origin of Canada then poke your nose into your own community and fight for their rights , you wont be considered a lesser Sikh for doing so.

N30SINGH , Chatanga1 bhaa ji ...all the seniors can we not have some great discussions instead of this trash? the forum even if quite is worth visiting, we keep reading older posts.

I am not saying we ban Satkirin or something ..inspite of all odds she is one of us ...but we need to finally convey a message to her that this is not the place for some puritan reform movement ..

[CdnSikhGirl]

Well then if this forum wishes to be only for so called puritan sects, then rename it... this thread started because Sikh Rehet Maryada is the only accepted Rehet Maryada by Akal Takht.  Akal Takht is the seat of Sikh authority.  SRM was the only attempt which was in any successful to unite the different ideologies of different sects, and using SGGSJ as the litmus test.  From thirteen years of deliberation using many historical documents and over hundred of Sikhs participating some very prominent for the time, they arrived at what we have now.  Out of all that, it was determined that there is nothing in Sikhi that says women should receive less right then men when it comes to home life, social life, and religious life.  It was determined there is nothing in Gurbani saying women should not be allowed to do some of the seva, or hold authority positions.  So it was written as such in Sikh Rehet Maryada.  Sikhs Rehet Maryada is the RM which is followed by vast majority of Sikhs (because its the only one recognized). Gurbani agrees with everyone receiving equal treatment. Even DDTs own RM agrees with it (even though Chatanga tries to say that everything but gender counts even though gender is clearly in the very same sentence so it can't be referring to something else)

If you guys want to personally subjugate and limit your wives and have them see you as Gods, then I will pray for them to have strength to make it through this life so they can have better next time. And I hope/pray that all of you end up in female bodies next time with full memory of what you did in this lifetime so you can lay in the bed you made yourself knowing what your ideology was. And I hope you all end up in families who give preference to sons and are married off to misogynist Singhs who only want you to live in the kitchen serving him and bowing to him and seeing him as a God over you.  And I hope he tells you NO for every goal you'd like to have in life and force you to obey and make you feel like he is superior to you because you know... the Gurus all had penises and he does and you don't so that makes him better than you. (And I hope I get to see it, from my new superior male body).  In your version of Sikhi, with it's 'customs' of making women feel miserable, I wonder how most women don't just go and end it so they can be reborn as males. 

Your view of Sikhi puts women in a crappy and miserable role.  If this version of Sikhi was what all the books and prominent websites etc had, I would never have even considered looking into it. I would have just lumped it with Islam as another oppressive ideology that hates women.  My husband really did not want me coming back here because he said please please do not think that is what majority of Sikhs are like because they aren't. And in Kashmir, women have been doing ALL seva alongside males including Panj Pyaras and Granthis.  Kashmir Sikhi is actually stronger because of that... Sikh marriages in Kashmir are stronger because of that.  There is no imbalance between husbands and wives there and nobody is being subjugated or relegated to a lesser status.  DDT actually tried to infiltrate there and they were stopped and told to stick to themselves.  ALL of Kashmir recognizes only Sikh Rehet Maryada.  

If this forum is only for talking about the sects which 'claim' to be puritan, then you need to say so.  Rename this to DDT/Sant Samaj/Nihang etc. Awareness or something... you will save yourself future headaches. 

Ciao. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[jaikaara]

Well then if this forum wishes to be only for so called puritan sects, then rename it... this thread started because Sikh Rehet Maryada is the only accepted Rehet Maryada by Akal Takht.  Akal Takht is the seat of Sikh authority.  SRM was the only attempt which was in any successful to unite the different ideologies of different sects, and using SGGSJ as the litmus test.  From thirteen years of deliberation using many historical documents and over hundred of Sikhs participating some very prominent for the time, they arrived at what we have now.  Out of all that, it was determined that there is nothing in Sikhi that says women should receive less right then men when it comes to home life, social life, and religious life.  It was determined there is nothing in Gurbani saying women should not be allowed to do some of the seva, or hold authority positions.  So it was written as such in Sikh Rehet Maryada.  Sikhs Rehet Maryada is the RM which is followed by vast majority of Sikhs (because its the only one recognized). Gurbani agrees with everyone receiving equal treatment. Even DDTs own RM agrees with it (even though Chatanga tries to say that everything but gender counts even though gender is clearly in the very same sentence so it can't be referring to something else)

If you guys want to personally subjugate and limit your wives and have them see you as Gods, then I will pray for them to have strength to make it through this life so they can have better next time. And I hope/pray that all of you end up in female bodies next time with full memory of what you did in this lifetime so you can lay in the bed you made yourself knowing what your ideology was. And I hope you all end up in families who give preference to sons and are married off to misogynist Singhs who only want you to live in the kitchen serving him and bowing to him and seeing him as a God over you.  And I hope he tells you NO for every goal you'd like to have in life and force you to obey and make you feel like he is superior to you because you know... the Gurus all had penises and he does and you don't so that makes him better than you. (And I hope I get to see it, from my new superior male body).  In your version of Sikhi, with it's 'customs' of making women feel miserable, I wonder how most women don't just go and end it so they can be reborn as males. 

Your view of Sikhi puts women in a crappy and miserable role.  If this version of Sikhi was what all the books and prominent websites etc had, I would never have even considered looking into it. I would have just lumped it with Islam as another oppressive ideology that hates women.  My husband really did not want me coming back here because he said please please do not think that is what majority of Sikhs are like because they aren't. And in Kashmir, women have been doing ALL seva alongside males including Panj Pyaras and Granthis.  Kashmir Sikhi is actually stronger because of that... Sikh marriages in Kashmir are stronger because of that.  There is no imbalance between husbands and wives there and nobody is being subjugated or relegated to a lesser status.  DDT actually tried to infiltrate there and they were stopped and told to stick to themselves.  ALL of Kashmir recognizes only Sikh Rehet Maryada.  

If this forum is only for talking about the sects which 'claim' to be puritan, then you need to say so.  Rename this to DDT/Sant Samaj/Nihang etc. Awareness or something... you will save yourself future headaches. 

Ciao. 

Aye Meri Maayi ..muaaf karde sannu...baksh de....amrite vele beh ke tere kol behes karan di shakti kittho aahndi pata nahi..

[chatanga1]

Well then if this forum wishes to be only for so called puritan sects, then rename it...

If this forum is only for talking about the sects which 'claim' to be puritan, then you need to say so.  Rename this to DDT/Sant Samaj/Nihang etc. Awareness or something... you will save yourself future headaches. 

Stop behaving like a little child. For someone who is 40 you are being really immature.

Akal Takht is the seat of Sikh authority. 

Yes you are right. Sri Akal Takht Sahib also says that no Sikh is to speak against Sri Dasam Granth or doubt it is the writing of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Have you abided by this? No, you haven't so stop misusing Sri Akal Takht Sahibs' name for your personal agenda. Next time you are in Amritsar, I suggest you go and do Ardasa for forgiveness for your going against Sri Akal Takht Sahib edict of not doubting Sri Dasam Granth.

(even though Chatanga tries to say that everything but gender counts even though gender is clearly in the very same sentence so it can't be referring to something else)

at least i recognise what context it is put in.

Sikhs Rehet Maryada is the RM which is followed by vast majority of Sikhs (because its the only one recognized).

Sri Dasam Granth is recognised and followed by the majority of the Panth. So why have you sided with the minority?

If you guys want to personally subjugate and limit your wives and have them see you as Gods, then I will pray for them to have strength to make it through this life so they can have better next time. And I hope/pray that all of you end up in female bodies next time with full memory of what you did in this lifetime so you can lay in the bed you made yourself knowing what your ideology was. And I hope you all end up in families who give preference to sons and are married off to misogynist Singhs who only want you to live in the kitchen serving him and bowing to him and seeing him as a God over you.  And I hope he tells you NO for every goal you'd like to have in life and force you to obey and make you feel like he is superior to you because you know... the Gurus all had penises and he does and you don't so that makes him better than you. (And I hope I get to see it, from my new superior male body).  In your version of Sikhi, with it's 'customs' of making women feel miserable, I wonder how most women don't just go and end it so they can be reborn as males.

For someone who is your age that is so immature. That's the kind of thing a child would say. And to tell you the truth, it's the image you have now on this forum. Some kind of joke. But tragically, one that doesn't seem to been any fun, or come to an end.

Your view of Sikhi puts women in a crappy and miserable role.  If this version of Sikhi was what all the books and prominent websites etc had, I would never have even considered looking into it. 

Its not our fault you came to sikhi with preconcieved ideas. It's not our fault that you have placed your intellect before the Guru and tried to believe yours is superior. Before blaming anyone take a look in the mirror.

And in Kashmir, women have been doing ALL seva alongside males including Panj Pyaras and Granthis.  Kashmir Sikhi is actually stronger because of that... Sikh marriages in Kashmir are stronger because of that. 

Now you are trying to claim that marriages are stronger because females do panja pyares and granthi sewa?

Please share what survey/exercise you do to arrive at this conclusion.

[CdnSikhGirl]

Chatanga1 you are the one who has reduced the importance of our Guru to that of a penis!  So don't talk about disrespect! You are saying that those who do seva as Panj Pyaras must be physical representative of Guru. (when more importance should be placed on the spiritual level and devotion - since ALL the Gurus plus SGGSJ state these bodies are FALSE). Then you narrow the physical requirements  which must be reproduced to one thing only... whether or not the person was born with the almighty penis.  All other physical 'representation' you said does not matter... they can be black white have pink polka dots, be short, tall, slim, fat, all that matters is if they have a penis.  So embarassing to see that SInghs out there have reduced our Guru to the importance of his gender only.  This is a good example of how deeply the ingrained hatred of men towards women is... that you actually place the male gender on such a high pedestal that you actually suggested the Gurus were male because the male gender is superior. Self serving lies designed to reinforce this superiority complex you have where you feel you just need to justify why you are better than me.

 

To answer your question about Kashmir, not directly but yes.  By supporting their wives full participation in Sikhi their marriages are stronger.  Do you seriously think by placing restrictions on your wife, and demanding obedience, that your wife will be happy?  Do you really think that by telling someone they are not allowed to fully participate in their religion, that they will be ecstatic about participating at all??  How do you think little girls look at it when little boys are being encouraged to dress up at nagar kirtans as Panj Pyaras.  The girls being young will be wondering, where is our special part? When do we get to stand out? Langar? Anyone can do langar... so when they see only boys getting to fully participate, they feel left out. And understandably, they will lose interest compared to boys.  Doesn't matter how much you tell them they can do all these other things but the boys will always have the most prominent seva and they being females will never get to do.  They will always feel like some other equally prominent seva should be for them.  And when they are pushed away from leadership roles, do not see any women as granthis, do not see many women in management committees etc. they will lose interest alltogether.  And dont tell me you dont see the droves of Sikh girls dating and marrying outside the Sikh religion. And it's the men's insistence that the major roles have to be reserved for them only, that is driving this.  So don't be surprised why the numbers of Sikhs are not growing and if things don't change you will drive all the Sikh women away eventually.  Then what will you have? Sikhi will be just another boys club. And in a generation or so it will die.  You don't see that women have the power to actually kill Sikhi and what you do and how you treat Sikh women will determine what happens in the future.  Exclusion = Sikhi will not grow, will probably shrink and die eventually.  Inclusion = Sikh women will feel empowered being supported by Singhs and will step up and be enthusastically and will feel that Sikhi is theris too.  Keep telling women to just shut up and bow to men's authority in Sikhi and keep giving all the leadership roles to males only and the women will walk away because they aren't really losing anything are they??  You can't lose something you were not really encouraged to be part of.  You might think is unrealistic...  but if DDT etc had their way and enforced their full ideology in Amritsar, watch what will happen. It won't happen over night or with the older aunties etc.  It will be a slow painful death, as the younger generation abandon it.  Keep telling Sikh girls they are inferior and deserve less privilege in Sikhi simply because the Gurus took male human bodies and you worship the almighty penis..... see how long they stick around.  As I said you can already see it in the younger generation... hoards of interfaith marriages where the girl marries someone who is not Sikh. 

 

This is all I am saying on this anymore.  I don't care how many names you call me.  I don't care how much noise you make.  Your exclusionary version of Sikhi you have in your mind is based on hatred and placing humans into gender heirarchy which is no different than caste heirarchy or status based on colour of skin etc.  You can't see it because you worship your penis and can't see past about 6".  So you make up some dumb rule that even though rehet maryada places all these heirarchies in the same sentence and therefore they are to be treated the same, you make excuses why gender is the only one which is allowed to be discriminated against because of some mysterious 'context' you dreamt up.  These bodies are false and temporary.  My soul and your soul are in fact one in the same.  In reality there is only ONE in existence... Waheguru.  While you keep diving further into duality, I am climbing out of it.  I actually see the light of God in everyone.  In each and every heart, regardless of whether they pee standing up or sitting down.  Beyond this reality, all is ONE.  Each and every heart come from the same essence, each soul is from the same ONE Akal Purakh.  Gurbani is trying to tell you this but your insistence to keep pushing women into lesser role only shows you care about duality.  Well, enjoy your life and superior position as a male.  I really don't know someone so filled with hatred could ever be happy.  You can keep limiting women and placing restrictions on them and trying to dictate some authority over them. I am choosing to surround myself with Singhs who are supportive and want women to participate alongside of and not beneath them. 

 

 

Neo please close this thread... obviously the members on here will never accept Sikh Rehet Maryada. You have members who are so exclusionary to their Dhera thinking, that mainstream Sikhi and even Akal Takht mean nothing to them.  Hence why I say this forum is filled with only DDT/Sant Samaj etc supporters.  It's not an objective Sikh forum by any means so any threads about rehet maryadas will always end up in fighting and the same members crying why their DDT RM is THE RM and SRM is invalid... so majority of Sikhs around the world can not have a sane conversation here about RMs.