Interesting story ref women post 1984 / Amrit Sanchars

[CdnSikhGirl]

Gurdarsh Kaur had one wish before she took her last breath: to be able to chak Amrit and become Guru Vaali.
However, the times were so tense and severe, that all the male members of the Sikh community had fled to escape persecution and possible execution from the ruling Hindu oppressers. The Singhs would only come out when the need of clock called them to show their military duty. Sometimes they fought protecting Muslims, sometimes Dalits and protecting the honor of so-called "low-caste" hindu women, or protecting the meek and weak in general. The dictating BJP had surpassed all limits of oppression and torture, and had gone on an ambush of tracking down and eliminating every Singh they came across. The RSS wanted to make sure that Brahmins remained on top of their hierarchical system. They had subjugated many Gurudwaras.

The Khalsa women would hold private top secret Smaagams in their homes. They also were on high alert on the ongoing oppression around them. The Jathedarni of the jatha of Khalsa women, Mata Dalbahadur Kaur wanted to organize a gupt Amrit Sinchaar, to have those partake Amrit who had been blessed yet. Many younger girls from Sikh backgrounds and even low-caste hindu women kept pushing her. But the Jathedarni and the rest of the charismatic personalities had their doubts. It had been a while since the last Amrit Sanchaar was organized and held. But since the Singhs had fled, there hadn't been an Amrit Sanchaar in over 2 years. The Khalsa women had their doubts and skepticism as to whether or not they should do Panj Peyaareyan di seva.

One night, Mata Dalbahadur Kaur jee had a dream in where Dasam Pita jee gave Partakh Darshan to Jathedarni jee. He told her that when He created the Khalsa in 1699, he had done no distinction or discrimination between Khalsa men and women. Singhs and Singhnis were both His Sikhs and deserved equal love of Dasmesh Pita jee. He gave her the Hukam to organize an Amrit Sanchaar and He Himself would do the Kautak. The next morning Jathedarni jee narrated this Kautak to all the Singhnian. They then decided that an Amrit Sanchaar would be held regardless of the presence or absence of Khalsa males.

Soon after, more and more Amrit Sanchaars started being conducted. These women and girls who had transformed into Khalsa, were filled with such valour and fierceness that the local RSS units would run away when they saw them and close their "shaakhaas". Together as one Khalsa, this army of Khalsa females shook the very roots of Delhi and sowed the first seed of Khalsa raaj. The BJP goons soon fell at their feet and begged for mercy. These women alone took revenge for 1984 and the many casualties that happened after. Khalsa males no longer had to go into hide out and became the emperors and rulers of India.

Sikhi began spreading far and wide. From Kashmir to Himalayas to Bengal to Rajasthan to Gujarat etc. They then attacked Pakistani troops and took over the Khalsa land and property which was stolen and seized by Muslims in 1947. Finally, the Khalsa had control over Siri Nankana Sahib and other Gurudwara Sahibs of what used to be "Pakistan". Once again, Khalsa Raaj was finally established and fully running. All this possible because the distinction or discrimination between men and women had ceased to exist. Khalsa was only Khalsa. Even the current prime minister of India had to take another janam and take Amrit to become Khalsa.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[Singh123456777]

This story makes no sense. 

[CdnSikhGirl]

Basically Guru Ji came to her in her dreams and told her message of equality that he intended no distinction between male and female in 1699 and told her to organize the amrit sanchar even though the Singhs were sparse.  There had been no amrit sanchar in nearly 2 years and many women had wanted to take amrit.  It was Guru Ji himself came to her and told her that that Panj Pyara seva does not need to be males. These women found new strength after taking amrit (amrit given by females doing seva as Panj Pyaras).  Though I think his English needs a bit of work, but I get what he was saying.  Anyway the message was that Guru Ji himself came to her and told her.  
 

Now, I know you will likely dismiss it as just a dream... but if she was male and had the same dream where Guru Ji came directly with a message, many would call that person a Sant... something to think about.

 

[Singh123456777]

Read the full story please. Then you will find out it makes no sense whatsoever. This story never happened! I guarantee it!

 

Please do tell the source cause I'm dying to know.

[CdnSikhGirl]

gurmatbibek.com 

 

[Singh123456777]

Never mind I found the story you posted on gurmat Bibek website lol. 

[Singh123456777]

I read all the posts from that guy and his English is good. It's just his story that does not match up.

[CdnSikhGirl]

I posted just above that's where it was from lol

[Singh123456777]

The poster is inder Singh. Again his story is all over the place. It makes no sense. Please Wanda read the story properly from the beginning to the end.

[CdnSikhGirl]

I agree his language skills are not best but the point of the story is Guru Ji came to her in a dream to tell her it was ok for women to do seva as Panj pyaras and so the Amrit sanchar was held.  I am trying to find out more who she is... Though it should be pointed out it would not have been the first Amrit sanchar with women as Panj Pyaras anyway, because we had them here in Canada in the 1970s for sure.  But in India it's less common so the fact that there is a story about it at least suggests that Amrit sanchars have happened in India with women as Panj pyaras then... Even if the details in his story seem confusing.  

I am assuming gurmatbibek is an AKJ website though? So I assume most on here will disregard it anyway.    

[kdsingh80]

This is joke of story , pure fantasy , taking revenge from RSS for 1984

[jaikaara]

AKJ Fairy tales ..i still dont understand what has 84 got to do with rss ..are these akj congress stooges ..the pogrom was carried out by the congress .

If i were to quote Khushwant singh the rss has saved Sikhs is what he had to say.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article/victory-to-the-mob/228338

[Singh123456777]

The whole story is that the bibi's did their own Amrit sanchar and then they fought in battles and defeated indian and Pakistani forces and there was peace for everybody. None of this ever happened! The Sikhs never liberated nankana sahib! This story teller is just pulling something out of his ass.

[Singh123456777]

8 hours ago, Satkirin_Kaur said:

I agree his language skills are not best but the point of the story is Guru Ji came to her in a dream to tell her it was ok for women to do seva as Panj pyaras and so the Amrit sanchar was held.  I am trying to find out more who she is... Though it should be pointed out it would not have been the first Amrit sanchar with women as Panj Pyaras anyway, because we had them here in Canada in the 1970s for sure.  But in India it's less common so the fact that there is a story about it at least suggests that Amrit sanchars have happened in India with women as Panj pyaras then... Even if the details in his story seem confusing.  

I am assuming gurmatbibek is an AKJ website though? So I assume most on here will disregard it anyway.    

Did you read the full story properly?

[Singh123456777]

Satkiran the person who wrote this story has good English. I read his other posts on gurmat Bibek and they are amazing. The reason why it sounds confusing this story is cause he made it up!

[Singh123456777]

"Sikhi began spreading far and wide. From Kashmir to Himalayas to Bengal to Rajasthan to Gujarat etc. They then attacked Pakistani troops and took over the Khalsa land and property which was stolen and seized by Muslims in 1947. Finally, the Khalsa had control over Siri Nankana Sahib and other Gurudwara Sahibs of what used to be "Pakistan". Once again, Khalsa Raaj was finally established and fully running. All this possible because the distinction or discrimination between men and women had ceased to exist. Khalsa was only Khalsa. Even the current prime minister of India had to take another janam and take Amrit to become Khalsa."

 

This paragraph in itself is retarded. The whole story is flawed.

[OnPathToSikhi]

5 hours ago, jaikaara said:

AKJ Fairy tales ..i still dont understand what has 84 got to do with rss ..are these akj congress stooges ..the pogrom was carried out by the congress .

If i were to quote Khushwant singh the rss has saved Sikhs is what he had to say.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article/victory-to-the-mob/228338

http://sikhchic.com/article-detail.php?cat=21&id=6100

The Pot Calling The Kettle Black:
Modi’s RSS Endorsed, Supported & Participated In 1984 Genocide

 

SHAMSUL ISLAM

 

 

 

 

EDITOR’S NOTE

It was bound to happen sooner or later.

India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi has taken a new approach to deflecting worldwide alarm over his government’s fomenting communal tensions in India and the atmosphere of intolerance it has been fostering in order to further the Hindu fundamentalist agenda being put forward by his party, the BJP, and the RSS, of which he is a life-long member and its Elder.

Modi’s new defence of the rising intolerance under his watch is that his party should not be criticized for its role in a rash of mass murders which are creating the tensions because the Congress Party (the Opposition) itself was the author of a genocide in 1984!

Various fingers are being pointed in every direction: Modi's thesis is that each party, including the present RSS/BJP gang, is guilty of mass murders of minorities, therefore the current government‘s crimes should be above reproach and beyond criticism!
 
In coming up with this novel defence -- the pot calling the kettle black, and vice versa -- and in criticising (finally, after 31 long years!) the Congress for its anti-Sikh pogroms of 1984, Mr Modi has conveniently failed to mention that his mentor and RSS ideologue and luminary, Chandikadas Amritrao Deshmukh, also known as Nana Deshmukh, had given open support to the Congress Party for the genocide of Sikhs, lauded the massacres and offered a detailed justification of the same based on his Hindu extremist ideology.

Deshmukh circulated a document on November 9, 1984 which has been summarized by Mr Shansul Islam, as follows:

*   *   *   *   *

The document helps in unmasking the whole lot of criminals involved in the massacre of innocent Sikhs who had nothing to do with the killing of Indira Gandhi. This document may also throw light on where the cadres came from, who meticulously organized the killing of Sikhs. Mr. Nana Deshmukh in this document is seen outlining the justification of the massacre of the Sikh community in 1984. According to him the massacre of Sikhs was not the handiwork of any group or anti-social elements but the result of a genuine feeling of anger among Hindus of India.

This document also shows the true degenerated and fascist attitude of the RSS -- [the very same organization that Modi belongs to] -- towards all the minorities of India. The RSS has been arguing that they are against Muslims and Christians because they are the followers of foreign religions. Here we find them justifying the butchering of Sikhs who according to their own categorization happened to be the followers of an indigenous religion.

The RSS often poses as a firm believer in Hindu-Sikh unity. But in this document we will hear from the horse's mouth that the RSS like the then Congress leadership believed that the massacre of the innocent Sikhs was justified. Deshmukh in this document is seen outlining the justification of the massacre of the Sikh community in 1984. His defence of the carnage can be summed up as in the following.

1     The massacre of Sikhs was not the handiwork of any group or anti-social elements but the result of a genuine feeling of anger.

2      Deshmukh did not distinguish the action of the two security personnel of Indira Gandhi, who happened to be Sikhs, from that of the whole Sikh community. From his document it emerges that the killers of Indira Gandhi were working under some kind of mandate of their community. Hence attacks on Sikhs were justified.

3      Sikhs themselves invited these attacks, thus advancing the Congress theory of justifying the massacre of the Sikhs.

4      He glorified the ‘Operation Blue Star' and described any opposition to it as anti-national. When Sikhs were being killed in thousands he was warning the country of Sikh extremism, thus offering ideological defense of those killings.

5      It was Sikh community as a whole which was responsible for violence in Punjab.

6      Sikhs should have done nothing in self-defence but showed patience and tolerance against the killer mobs.

7      These were Sikh intellectuals and not killer mobs which were responsible for the massacre. They had turned Sikhs into a militant community, cutting them off from their Hindu roots, thus inviting attacks from the nationalist Indians. Interestingly, Deshmukh would not mind having militant Hindus. Moreover, he treated all Sikhs as part of the same gang and defended attacks on them as a reaction of the nationalist Hindus.

8      He described Indira Gandhi as the only leader who could keep the country united and on the killing of such a great leader such killings could not be avoided.

9      Rajiv Gandhi who succeeded Mrs. Gandhi as the Prime Minister of India and justified the nation-wide killings of Sikhs by saying, “When a huge tree falls there are always tremors felt”, was lauded and blessed by Nana Deshmukh at the end of the document.

10    Shockingly, the massacre of Sikhs was being equated with the attacks on the RSS cadres after the 1948 killing of Mohandas Gandhi  and we find Deshmukh advising Sikhs to suffer silently. Everybody knows that the killing of Gandhi was inspired by the RSS and the Hindutva Ideology whereas the common innocent Sikhs had nothing to do with the murder of Mrs. Indira Gandhi.

11    There was not a single sentence in the Deshmukh document demanding, from the then Congress Government at the Centre, remedial measures for controlling the violence against the minority community. Mind it, that Deshmukh circulated this document on November 8, 1984, and from October 31 to this date Sikhs were left alone to face the killing gangs. In fact November 1-10 was the period when the maximum killings of Sikhs took place. Deshmukh was just not bothered about all this.

This document was published in the Hindi Weekly ‘Pratipaksh’ and edited by George Fernandes who later became Defence Minister of India in the NDA regime, in its edition of November 25, 1984 titled ‘Indira Congress-RSS collusion'.

*    *   *   *   *

[Courtesy: Cross Currents. Edited for sikhchic.com]

November 3, 2015

[kdsingh80]

2 hours ago, OnPathToSikhi said:

http://sikhchic.com/article-detail.php?cat=21&id=6100

The Pot Calling The Kettle Black:
Modi’s RSS Endorsed, Supported & Participated In 1984 Genocide

 

SHAMSUL ISLAM

 

 

 

 

EDITOR’S NOTE

It was bound to happen sooner or later.

India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi has taken a new approach to deflecting worldwide alarm over his government’s fomenting communal tensions in India and the atmosphere of intolerance it has been fostering in order to further the Hindu fundamentalist agenda being put forward by his party, the BJP, and the RSS, of which he is a life-long member and its Elder.

Modi’s new defence of the rising intolerance under his watch is that his party should not be criticized for its role in a rash of mass murders which are creating the tensions because the Congress Party (the Opposition) itself was the author of a genocide in 1984!

Various fingers are being pointed in every direction: Modi's thesis is that each party, including the present RSS/BJP gang, is guilty of mass murders of minorities, therefore the current government‘s crimes should be above reproach and beyond criticism!
 
In coming up with this novel defence -- the pot calling the kettle black, and vice versa -- and in criticising (finally, after 31 long years!) the Congress for its anti-Sikh pogroms of 1984, Mr Modi has conveniently failed to mention that his mentor and RSS ideologue and luminary, Chandikadas Amritrao Deshmukh, also known as Nana Deshmukh, had given open support to the Congress Party for the genocide of Sikhs, lauded the massacres and offered a detailed justification of the same based on his Hindu extremist ideology.

Deshmukh circulated a document on November 9, 1984 which has been summarized by Mr Shansul Islam, as follows:

*   *   *   *   *

The document helps in unmasking the whole lot of criminals involved in the massacre of innocent Sikhs who had nothing to do with the killing of Indira Gandhi. This document may also throw light on where the cadres came from, who meticulously organized the killing of Sikhs. Mr. Nana Deshmukh in this document is seen outlining the justification of the massacre of the Sikh community in 1984. According to him the massacre of Sikhs was not the handiwork of any group or anti-social elements but the result of a genuine feeling of anger among Hindus of India.

This document also shows the true degenerated and fascist attitude of the RSS -- [the very same organization that Modi belongs to] -- towards all the minorities of India. The RSS has been arguing that they are against Muslims and Christians because they are the followers of foreign religions. Here we find them justifying the butchering of Sikhs who according to their own categorization happened to be the followers of an indigenous religion.

The RSS often poses as a firm believer in Hindu-Sikh unity. But in this document we will hear from the horse's mouth that the RSS like the then Congress leadership believed that the massacre of the innocent Sikhs was justified. Deshmukh in this document is seen outlining the justification of the massacre of the Sikh community in 1984. His defence of the carnage can be summed up as in the following.

1     The massacre of Sikhs was not the handiwork of any group or anti-social elements but the result of a genuine feeling of anger.

2      Deshmukh did not distinguish the action of the two security personnel of Indira Gandhi, who happened to be Sikhs, from that of the whole Sikh community. From his document it emerges that the killers of Indira Gandhi were working under some kind of mandate of their community. Hence attacks on Sikhs were justified.

3      Sikhs themselves invited these attacks, thus advancing the Congress theory of justifying the massacre of the Sikhs.

4      He glorified the ‘Operation Blue Star' and described any opposition to it as anti-national. When Sikhs were being killed in thousands he was warning the country of Sikh extremism, thus offering ideological defense of those killings.

5      It was Sikh community as a whole which was responsible for violence in Punjab.

6      Sikhs should have done nothing in self-defence but showed patience and tolerance against the killer mobs.

7      These were Sikh intellectuals and not killer mobs which were responsible for the massacre. They had turned Sikhs into a militant community, cutting them off from their Hindu roots, thus inviting attacks from the nationalist Indians. Interestingly, Deshmukh would not mind having militant Hindus. Moreover, he treated all Sikhs as part of the same gang and defended attacks on them as a reaction of the nationalist Hindus.

8      He described Indira Gandhi as the only leader who could keep the country united and on the killing of such a great leader such killings could not be avoided.

9      Rajiv Gandhi who succeeded Mrs. Gandhi as the Prime Minister of India and justified the nation-wide killings of Sikhs by saying, “When a huge tree falls there are always tremors felt”, was lauded and blessed by Nana Deshmukh at the end of the document.

10    Shockingly, the massacre of Sikhs was being equated with the attacks on the RSS cadres after the 1948 killing of Mohandas Gandhi  and we find Deshmukh advising Sikhs to suffer silently. Everybody knows that the killing of Gandhi was inspired by the RSS and the Hindutva Ideology whereas the common innocent Sikhs had nothing to do with the murder of Mrs. Indira Gandhi.

11    There was not a single sentence in the Deshmukh document demanding, from the then Congress Government at the Centre, remedial measures for controlling the violence against the minority community. Mind it, that Deshmukh circulated this document on November 8, 1984, and from October 31 to this date Sikhs were left alone to face the killing gangs. In fact November 1-10 was the period when the maximum killings of Sikhs took place. Deshmukh was just not bothered about all this.

This document was published in the Hindi Weekly ‘Pratipaksh’ and edited by George Fernandes who later became Defence Minister of India in the NDA regime, in its edition of November 25, 1984 titled ‘Indira Congress-RSS collusion'.

*    *   *   *   *

[Courtesy: Cross Currents. Edited for sikhchic.com]

November 3, 2015

Sikhchic is hardcore anti Hindu site. They don't even allow comments which defends Hindu 's or anything . All they allow Blatant bashing of India and Hindu's 

Quote

Atal Bihari Vajpayee, who was then president of the Bharatiya Janata Party, had instructed party leaders in Delhi to organise relief camps and provide succour to the survivors of the pogrom. Madan Lal Khurana and Vijay Kumar Malhotra had braved the marauders to move from colony to colony, giving whatever help they could. Vajpayee contested the official death toll and asked his colleagues to collate figures. Their total added up to 2,800. 'The BJP is an anti-national party,' responded the Congress.

There were demands for a judicial inquiry to fix responsibility and add up the casualties. Rajiv Gandhi stonewalled these demands. Human rights organisations petitioned the courts. Rajiv Gandhi's government declared that courts were not empowered to order inquiries.

http://www.sikhsundesh.net/genocide.htm

 

[jaikaara]

i have had interaction with people from the rss , i didnt come across anything anti sikh . The only issue would be they treat every indian born religion as hindu and they are not religious in any way so they first of all dont even have any depth of Hindu dharam what would they talk about Sikhi

[JustAnotherSingh]

To be honest, I have had my experience with some RSS folks and am apprehensive of them. They've toned down their rhetoric from the good ol' "Sikhi is the sword-arm of Hinduism," but they have political motives to appropriate Sikhs that *should* be recognized. It's ideologically defunct in how far it takes its notions of "purified India" supposedly free from Abrahamic firangi control. Just on my timeline today some RSS stooge claimed that more Bihari and UP immigrants needed to come to Punjab and make it once again "Panch Nada" (the name from Vedic times) instead of the Persian "Punjab." Not that I have anything wrong with the bhaiyya workers, but the whole ideas is rather ludicrous. 

 

However, that said, our community uses RSS as a catchall for literally every single negative thing. RSS is not this illuminati-type Big Brother literally inserting itself to undermine Sikh history at each and every point. To be honest, it's kind of interesting historically; just like many in our community blame RSS agents for everything because they're perceived as enemies of the panth, in old times, did Singh's conjure up conspiracies about "Turk" agents everywhere? 

 

Anyways, I felt that the entire story was entirely vacuous and hurt my brain to read. 

[jaikaara]

28 minutes ago, JustAnotherSingh said:

To be honest, I have had my experience with some RSS folks and am apprehensive of them. They've toned down their rhetoric from the good ol' "Sikhi is the sword-arm of Hinduism," but they have political motives to appropriate Sikhs that *should* be recognized. It's ideologically defunct in how far it takes its notions of "purified India" supposedly free from Abrahamic firangi control. Just on my timeline today some RSS stooge claimed that more Bihari and UP immigrants needed to come to Punjab and make it once again "Panch Nada" (the name from Vedic times) instead of the Persian "Punjab." Not that I have anything wrong with the bhaiyya workers, but the whole ideas is rather ludicrous. 

 

However, that said, our community uses RSS as a catchall for literally every single negative thing. RSS is not this illuminati-type Big Brother literally inserting itself to undermine Sikh history at each and every point. To be honest, it's kind of interesting historically; just like many in our community blame RSS agents for everything because they're perceived as enemies of the panth, in old times, did Singh's conjure up conspiracies about "Turk" agents everywhere? 

 

Anyways, I felt that the entire story was entirely vacuous and hurt my brain to read. 

yea i too have had my arguments with them and asked them to stop using their 'brain' to hinduise Sikhi since Sikhi in the puraatan form is more hindu than the so called 'fusion' hindu identity they perceive.

I gave them a simple logic if i were to bring up my child as a singh what will i tell him when he asks me why dont i cut my hair while others hindus do ? the child will be at loss to understand how does keeping kes make any difference to him when wothout it he will still be a hindu .Khalsa is niara and will always be niara...

In puraatan maryada there is respect for the Devte as yoddhas and no way will they be equal to Akaal     Purakh, they are sewaadaars of the Akaal Purakh according to the Sikh view of Dharam.

I am not liked by the types of them easily and i just maintain my stand .

My situation is worse since i am from a hindu background , for the negative type of Sikhs i am a rss agent and what not and for the rss types they take me for a separatist . I use to joke with both these types that someday both of them will come together to fight with me .

[kdsingh80]

6 hours ago, jaikaara said:

yea i too have had my arguments with them and asked them to stop using their 'brain' to hinduise Sikhi since Sikhi in the puraatan form is more hindu than the so called 'fusion' hindu identity they perceive.

I gave them a simple logic if i were to bring up my child as a singh what will i tell him when he asks me why dont i cut my hair while others hindus do ? the child will be at loss to understand how does keeping kes make any difference to him when wothout it he will still be a hindu .Khalsa is niara and will always be niara...

In puraatan maryada there is respect for the Devte as yoddhas and no way will they be equal to Akaal     Purakh, they are sewaadaars of the Akaal Purakh according to the Sikh view of Dharam.

I am not liked by the types of them easily and i just maintain my stand .

My situation is worse since i am from a hindu background , for the negative type of Sikhs i am a rss agent and what not and for the rss types they take me for a separatist . I use to joke with both these types that someday both of them will come together to fight with me .

Hinduisation of sikhi will hurt them more.Once million of Hindu's will go to Gurdwara instead of mandir then their shankarcharya will declare war on sikhs.

Just look what they are doing with Sai Baba worshippers. there are images of Hanuman smashing Sai baba , There are millions of Sai baba bhakts if this will not stop they too will declare sai babaism as separate religion.

Can you imagine Picture Hanuman Hitting Guru Nanak will do? 

Edited November 5, 2015 by kdsingh80

[jaikaara]

2 minutes ago, kdsingh80 said:

Hinduisation of sikhi will hurt them more.Once million of Hindu's will go to Gurdwara instead of mandir then their shankarcharya will declare war on sikhs.

Just look what they are doing with Sai Baba worshippers. there are images of Hanuman smashing Sai baba , There are millions of Sai baba bhakts if this will not stop they too will declare sai babaism as separate religion.

Can you imagine Picture Hanuman Hitting Guru Nanak will do? 

Yea there are weird lot on both sides ..i guess Marx said it right religion is an opium ! lol !

[kdsingh80]

2 minutes ago, jaikaara said:

Yea there are weird lot on both sides ..i guess Marx said it right religion is an opium ! lol !

Human mind require some type of Opium .we have seen with Marx experiment  that if not religion them people start following some human and we don't even know what that human will preach. Stalin Hitler , Mao bring terrible destruction because of its religion like followers and if not human then they start running for materialistic goods but their desire never stop .This result in massive exploitation earth's resources