Women and Turban = No.

[BhagatSingh]

10 minutes ago, kdsingh80 said:

Not true , it depends on races.sometimes you are really puzzled when you see mongloid woman with man like haircut and male dress and you have really hard time to guess whether it was a man or woman unless you look very carefully .

But I am sure those guys could easily tell which one of them was male and which one was female.

Outside race perspective doesn't count.

We had Singhs wearing surma, ear-rings and tons of jewelry, when the British came to India. We wore as much jewelry as their women. But our women wore even more jewelry than us.

[kdsingh80]

1 minute ago, BhagatSingh said:

But I am sure those guys could easily tell which one of them was male and which one was female.

Outside race perspective doesn't count.

We had Singhs wearing surma, ear-rings and tons of jewelry, when the British came to India. We wore as much jewelry as their women. But our women wore even more jewelry than us.

Singhs always had heavy beard so nobody confuse them with women

[amardeep]

There is nothing wrong in wearing jewelry from a gurmat perspective.

Edited March 22, 2016 by amardeep

[amardeep]

10 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

One of the old works I read, the name of which escapes me, mentioned 3 mandatory kakkars-

Kesh
Karha
Kurd

Thats probably the Sarbloh Granth you are refering to. It talks about the Kesh, Keshara and Kirpan.. In many rahitname the word kard is used instead of kirpan. Not sure if its the same thing or two differnt ones.

[BhagatSingh]

28 minutes ago, amardeep said:

Thats probably the Sarbloh Granth you are refering to. It talks about the Kesh, Keshara and Kirpan.. In many rahitname the word kard is used instead of kirpan. Not sure if its the same thing or two differnt ones.

Nope, not kachhera. Kachhera was not mandatory. (not talking about present-day)

Yes Kurd is a dagger, it was a more common term than kirpan.

It wasn't Sarbloh Granth.

 

I specifically remember he said - Kesh, Karha, Kurd - Long- hair, bangle, and dagger.
This might have been a puratan rehitnama, I don't know.

[BhagatSingh]

33 minutes ago, amardeep said:

There is nothing wrong in wearing jewelry from a gurmat perspective.

What are your thoughts about ear-rings?

[amardeep]

The Prem Sumarag talks about piercing female babies ears while they are infant

Here is the passage from the Sarbloh Granth:

ਅਸੁ ਖਾਲਸਹਿ ਖਾਲਸ ਪਦ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤਿ, ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰਿ ਸੁ ਸ੍ਵਰੂਪ ਮਹਾਨੰ ॥ਰਹਾਉ॥
The Khalsa attained purity, as great as the One (nirankaar) who is above every stain
ਗੁਰੁ ਉਪਦੇਸ ਸਿਖਨ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ਭਾਸਨਿ, ਮੁੱਦ੍ਰਿਤ ਕੱਛ ਕੇਸ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨੰ ॥
To the Sikhs this teaching of the Guru is given, that these three must be your signs: kachh, kesh, kirpan

From: http://sikh-reality.blogspot.dk/p/sarbloh-granth.html

Edited March 22, 2016 by amardeep

[Rock]

I think in Gurmat,  obsessive attachment with jewelery or clothing is looked down upon more than anything else .

[CdnSikhGirl]

1 hour ago, amardeep said:

Satkirin: it has nothing to do with women being inferior.. Did the Guru make women inferior by giving them the name kaur instead of Singh? no

I wasn't talking about the idea of it being not mandatory... I was talking about the suggestion that it is considered a big SIN if a women DOES tie one!  Why would it be a sin?? If something is considered a sin, then there must be something inherently against spirituality by the action being labeled a sin.  That means that to suggest its a sin means women donning a part of the Khalsa uniform, is seen as sinful.  Why? 

[amardeep]

Who says its a sin? I  think most people who are against it is because they are not used to seeing it.

[amardeep]

3 minutes ago, Rock said:

I think in Gurmat,  obsessive attachment with jewelery or clothing is looked down upon more than anything else .

Obsessive attachment is the problem then.. Not the object you're obsessively attached to. I could be obsessively attached to my phone,- thats the problem then,- not the phone, If you wear a necklace etc because you find it preety and nice. Then go for it... Nothing wrong in that from a gurmat perspective.

[CdnSikhGirl]

 

4 minutes ago, amardeep said:

Who says its a sin? I  think most people who are against it is because they are not used to seeing it.

Here...

10 hours ago, kdsingh80 said:

My grandmother was also against women wearing turban , the sewapanthi samprada which had influence in their area was dead against that. She told me once a woman came under influence of AKJ's and wore turban when she visited the sant s they were shocked , they scolded her and told her its a sin 

[Kaalka]

1 hour ago, kdsingh80 said:

Singhs always had heavy beard so nobody confuse them with women

Unless you're Harnaam Khan and a few other kusria.

[chatanga1]

11 hours ago, Guest said:

 And its well known Brahministical thinking crept into Sikhi while Wikhs were forced into hiding in the woods and holy places occupied. We lost so much.

 

Guest Ji, that is an old husbands tale. People wsay this to try and invent reasons for certain practices in the Sikhs. The Sikhs virtually took over Panjab in the last 18 century, so there would have been no problem in purging "brahmanistical" practices in Sikhi.

 

4 hours ago, Guest said:

Whether Khalsa women wear them or not is not dependant on 'the way you see it.'  The dastar is mandatory for both.  It is not an article of clothing which is in vogue one day and not in vogue the next!!!  It is the UNIFORM OF THE KHALSA.  Khalsa consists of both men and women!!  Do modern day female soldiers wear skirts and pretty little  blouses with floral motifs when they join the army?  NO!!!!!!!!  They wear exactly the same uniform as men soldiers.  Female soldiers wear berets same as men soldiers, no questions asked!! They don't wear colorful scarves to signify they are women!!  OBSERVE AND LEARN.  The creator of the Khalsa commanded that men and women shall wear the same uniform, simple.  Every single article of uniform is mandatory whether one is a modern day soldier or not.  No one can pick and choose, either you are in or you are out and there is no two ways about it! 

 

Guest Sahib that is a very pertinent point about soldiers wearing the same uniform. There is just one difference in Sikhi though, women wear pyjamas with bana, whilst men can wear chola only. During Amrit sinchar as well, men cannot wear pyjama whilst women do. Have you noticed this?

 

[Kaalka]

From 1850s onwards, let's have a look at the appearance of the bibia who have actually done something for the panth.

100% have no turban, including the successors of Mai Bhago; Khalistani jangi bibia. 

[CdnSikhGirl]

Here is a historical photo for you Kaalka <grins>

 

[Kaalka]

OMGGG MEHNDI

JEWELLERY 

DECORATED SUIT 

...

OMGGG  TIED UP BEARD

NO VISIBLE GATRA 

[Rock]

9 minutes ago, Kaalka said:

OMGGG  TIED UP BEARD

NO VISIBLE GATRA 

What is wrong with tied up beard & no visible gatra ?

And does the red dot represent bindi ?

Do you yourself wear a turban ?

[Rock]

30 minutes ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

Here is a historical photo for you Kaalka <grins>

 

Nice Punjabi Jutii!

[CdnSikhGirl]

56 minutes ago, Kaalka said:

OMGGG MEHNDI

JEWELLERY 

DECORATED SUIT 

...

OMGGG  TIED UP BEARD

NO VISIBLE GATRA 

Jewelry is not against Rehet Maryada, though piercings specifically are. And yes I had a tiny bit of mehendi on only my finger tips (my nieces on my husband's side wouldn't take no for an answer so I let them do just a tiny bit. If you notice I have none on back of my hands and no designs).
Decorated suit, there is no problem! He had beadwork all on his sherwani too! 
Yes he ties his beard. Not all the time though. But he is used to it because of work / safety reasons.
Our both gatras are under our suits. I don't think there is anything saying gatra must be visible?? Just that it must be worn. Sometimes I wear over and sometimes under. IN case of anand karaj, since we were matha tekking numerous times, to keep it from swinging around, we both wore under. 

[BhagatSingh]

@amardeep

Never mind it is Kesh, Kachha, Kurd, even back then I got Kacha and Karha mixed up lol.
 

From Gurbilas Patshahi 10 -

ਦੋਹਰਾ ।

ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮੇਲ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਸੋ, ਕਛ ਕੇਸਨ ਸਦ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ।
ਕਰਦ ਰਾਖਨੀ ਪੰਚ ਏ, ਤਜੈ ਨ ਕਬ ਹੀ ਨੇਮ ।।੧੧।।

Back to Turban

mandatory or not?

Source?

[CdnSikhGirl]

Sources:

Guru Gobind Singh Ji's 52 Hukams:

35 Dastaar binaa nahee rehnaa|
(doesn't say only men, so women too are required)

Rhetnama Bhai Daya Singh

"Each candidate for Baptism be made to wear kachhehra, tie hair in a topknot and cover the same with dastaar; wear Sri Sahib (i.e. Kirpan) in Gaatra (shoulder belt). Then he/she should stand with folded hands.

Taksal Maryada:

For the respect of your hair, two turbans are to be tied, tying each layer one at a time.  There should be a small turban tied underneath and a larger one tied above this.  Women must not plait their hair and should keep their hair tied in a bun/top-knot, in order to respect your Kesh a small turban should be tied. 

The Nihang Bibian are dastaardhari, and many contend maintain the original form and discipline of the Khalsa.  Their Nitnem Gutka defines that every Gursikh man and woman (Singh and Singhni is the wording used) should have a blue keski in their hair.

[kdsingh80]

What are the views of people on who are posting here that women were not allowed in some cultures to dress like men because they are inferiors  on Sworn virgins.

Quote

Sworn Virgins: Photos of Women Living as Men in the Balkans

http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/sworn-virgins-photos-of-women-living-as-men-in-the-balkans/265948/#slide6

Women who choose to live like that on one condition that they will never have sex and they will live like a man.Other women in that culture were treated very badly 

[CdnSikhGirl]

3 hours ago, kdsingh80 said:

What are the views of people on who are posting here that women were not allowed in some cultures to dress like men because they are inferiors  on Sworn virgins.

Women who choose to live like that on one condition that they will never have sex and they will live like a man.Other women in that culture were treated very badly 

And this is the reason why some people tend to get really upset if women 'dress like men' etc. It has nothing to do with the women's looks and everything to do with keeping women in their place (which as you show) has been seen as inferior in many cultures.  Of course, my tying a turban is seen by some Singhs as overstepping my inferior rank to Singhs, and trying to stand side by side with them, which in their eyes could never happen. I should be as Gurpreet Bhenji put it, home washing dishes, cooking having a boatload of babies and caring for my husband. Sikhi is supposed to be different. At least our Gurus taught different. I truly don't believe that being in Guru Gobind Sinhj Ji's roop was only meant for men. After all, Sikhi deals with the formless, the genderless, the soul.   

Btw if I was stuck in the culture of the girls in that article, I'd probably rather give up chance of marriage, to become a man too. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Guest Sahib that is a very pertinent point about soldiers wearing the same uniform. There is just one difference in Sikhi though, women wear pyjamas with bana, whilst men can wear chola only. During Amrit sinchar as well, men cannot wear pyjama whilst women do. Have you noticed this?

 

Pertinent or impertinent, uniform is uniform!!!  The creator of Khalsa commanded both men and women wear three dastars on their heads to EMPOWER THEM against the Muslim rulers! During the times of the Sikh Gurus, no non Muslim could keep horses let alone ride them, no non Muslim could wear a Kalgee either , all women had to wear a covering to signify they were no more than CATTLE only meant for the market place!  The Sikh Gurus took a stand against all this which led to a tremendous social change!  A change that didn't sit very well with rulers!  

The creator of the Khalsa ordered his followers, to wear this article of clothing to EMPOWER them against the injustices of the rulers, whether male or female!  He ordered only THOSE that followed his PHILOSOPHY; the KHALSA PHILOSOPHY to wear the turban and not every TOM, DICK AND HARRY!!!!!!!!!!  This was vital in spreading the Khalsa philosophy, BUT, unfortunately the so called 'Sikh Qom' failed to educate themselves about the meaning of this Philosophy and deliberately decided to take an easy option out and that OPTION was to remain ILLITERATE!!! 

The Khalsa women were empowered like never before.  The dastars on their feminine heads meant they will not tolerate any SHIT from anyone starting with their fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, uncles, aunts, in laws whether male/female etc.,!  They were only answerable to their Spiritual Mentors, the Gurus!  The women were ennobled and dignified  by this command.  This is a Spiritual gift to the Khalsa women from the creator of Khalsa. When we decide to follow a spiritual path the first thing we do is surrender and follow our MENTORS' commands and teachings!!

Khalsa women were given the shorts, the steel bracelet, the kurpan, kesh and kanga same as the Khalsa men, so, why would these women not be given a turban same as men?  The turban on the heads of Khalsa represents empowerment but the illiterate Sikh world has deliberately interpreted it to mean differently to constellate confusion, duality, gender based discrimination instead of Oneness of the Khalsa and it's great philosophy!  Khalsa is a collective force the mystics will tell you that!!

Have you noticed that all panj piyareys are 'men?'  If they included a woman in this YOU will not see her dishing out the Amrit with her bare legs!! It would be considered a profanity on a major scale!  Just as we cannot question why we don't have women in the panj piyareys so we CANNOT question why the men stand with bare legs when they are dishing out the Amrit!!   Grow up and expand your little mind!  

The great Khalsa Philosophy has no room for little minds.  It is a gift from the Akaal Purakh and meant to be shared and we can only share it if we know, understand and appreciate what it means and stands for!!!